International [Arab-Israeli Conflict, v4] Israel Sets Goal of Doubling the Jewish Population on the Golan Heights

[Arkain2K]

 

[Phr3121]

 

[Phr3121]

Imagine - theoretically - that things really go to shit. Iran (Syria or Lebanon) places 3 nukes in 3 major Israeli cities. The Israelis can choose option 'a' below or have the 3 bombs go off simultaneously. Roughly 4,000,000 Jews. Which option would Israel go with?

a. Palestinians (undoing the Jewish post WWII plan) get the Americans, the world, and the UN to do away with Gaza and the West Bank. Split Israel down the middle (horizontally). Give the North part of the country to Palestinians and name it Palestine. Give the South to Israel.

* Nukes to be provided by Iran or Pakistan. 3 small 5 kiloton bombs. Bombs would be driven into Israel.

** Iran does not even have to physically place 3 nukes in 3 major Israeli cities, but would the Israelis really want to take that chance. What if it is not a bluff?

 

[12ga.]

They'll never stop. Took 200 years to get Crusaders out of Palestine but they did. Israel will fall too and be like old times in palestine before zionism - jews and Muslims together. Much sooner I suspect due to weaponry of today and tomorrow plus international pressure.

 

[12ga.]

The oppressed become the oppressors. All too common story in History.

What gave rise to Nazis in the first place was was vicious terms after WW1.

Now Israel has adopted what they learned.

It's like if you beat a child more often than not he'll be abusive too when he grows up.

 

[12ga.]

Imagine - theoretically - that things really go to shit. Iran (Syria or Lebanon) places 3 nukes in 3 major Israeli cities. The Israelis can choose option 'a' below or have the 3 bombs go off simultaneously. Roughly 4,000,000 Jews. Which option would Israel go with?

a. Palestinians (undoing the Jewish post WWII plan) get the Americans, the world, and the UN to do away with Gaza and the West Bank. Split Israel down the middle (horizontally). Give the North part of the country to Palestinians and name it Palestine. Give the South to Israel.

* Nukes to be provided by Iran or Pakistan. 3 small 5 kiloton bombs. Bombs would be driven into Israel.

** Iran does not even have to physically place 3 nukes in 3 major Israeli cities, but would the Israelis really want to take that chance. What if it is not a bluff?

Israel will probably end up killing us all, the world, with Sampson Option if they were in peril. They have an estimated 400 nukes and more by the year. Our enabling, US and EU, has put whole world at risk. Only way to peace is force Israeli reconciliation through international sanctions and cutting off all material support. Since Trump is Israels president not ours we have to wait a bit.

 

[salamander]

Eretz Israel rising

 

[Phr3121]

Only way to peace is force Israeli reconciliation through international sanctions and cutting off all material support.

If the Palestinians had better leadership and had made a deal already maybe they wouldn't need to be feeding dozens of their own to the IDF meat-grinder. That said I don't think the West will get behind any legitimate Palestinian leader.

The world does not care for Palestinians. Not the U.S. or the UN. Palestinians rank with the Rohingyans of Myanmar, the Tutsis in Rwanda, Cambodians under Pol Pot, and the Chinese under Mao. No, the U.S. and the UN did not step in to intervene and thousands/millions were killed.

A Palestinian life is worth less than a Israeli life. A Israeli life is worth less than an American life, and so on. If you are not part of the 1st world or have something to bring to the table (oil), nobody gives a shit. Palestinians will forever live as refugees. They will eventually become extinct.

Africa is a whole continent that has been forgotten. Nobody cares about their civil wars, genocide or ethnic cleansing. They have nothing to bring to the table. At times I am ashamed to be part of the human race. What would an alien culture think of all this?

 

[abiG]

Israel will probably end up killing us all, the world, with Sampson Option if they were in peril. They have an estimated 400 nukes and more by the year. Our enabling, US and EU, has put whole world at risk. Only way to peace is force Israeli reconciliation through international sanctions and cutting off all material support. Since Trump is Israels president not ours we have to wait a bit.

Yes, the Sampson option is no conspiracy theory and reconciliation through international sanctions? Been tried, numerous times, the US vetoes 100% of the time. Until Americans wrap their mind around what type of power the zionist regime holds, nothing else matters. They don't give two shits about Palestine, but once they realize how dangerous this regime is to America, everything changes.

 

[Arkain2K]

The world does not care for Palestinians. Not the U.S. or the UN. Palestinians rank with the Rohingyans of Myanmar, the Tutsis in Rwanda, Cambodians under Pol Pot, and the Chinese under Mao. No, the U.S. and the UN did not step in to intervene and thousands/millions were killed.

A Palestinian life is worth less than a Israeli life. A Israeli life is worth less than an American life, and so on. If you are not part of the 1st world or have something to bring to the table (oil), nobody gives a shit. Palestinians will forever live as refugees. They will eventually become extinct.

Africa is a whole continent that has been forgotten. Nobody cares about their civil wars, genocide or ethnic cleansing. They have nothing to bring to the table. At times I am ashamed to be part of the human race. What would an alien culture think of all this?

...so why not take the deal when there's a GREAT deal on the table?

What exactly are they holding out for anyway? Realistically, what could possibly be better than Bill Clinton's proposal?

The Saudi asked Arafat that question back in 2001. I asked that question again a year ago, and still no one seems to know. No one who's grounded in this reality instead of a dream world, anyway.

As Israel Celebrates Its 70th Anniversary, 1948 Is Groundhog Day for Palestinians
Chemi Shalev Jan 24, 2018​

U.S. President Bill Clinton walks with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and Vice President Al Gore in Maryland, Oct. 18, 1998.​

In 2001, as Yasser Arafat was in Washington deliberating whether to accept the "Clinton Parameters" for solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, then Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar Bin Sultan confronted him: "Since 1948, every time we've had something on the table we say no. Then we say yes. When we say yes, it's not on the table anymore. Then we have to deal with something less. Isn't it about time we said yes?"

Arafat didn’t rise to the occasion and refused to accept Clinton’s guidelines, but 16 years later, Bandar’s assessment keeps coming true. Arafat’s successor Mahmoud Abbas repeatedly asserts his willingness to accept a two-state solution based on the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state, a position that would have once been greeted as a miraculous breakthrough but today is met mostly by shrugs. That train has left the station.

“This isn’t 1948” Abbas bellowed in his speech before the Palestinian National Council last week in which he blasted Donald Trump and lambasted Zionism. He sounded as if he was trying to exorcize a dybbuk, or at least to reassure himself. Of course this isn’t 1948, and it never will be. But for Abbas and the Palestinians, the ghostly echoes of that fateful year are possibly louder now than they’ve been for many decades. It is inevitable that this will happen, at a time when Palestinians are divided, dispirited, leaderless, rudderless and feel abandoned by the world. Their terms of reference are still 1948, the formative disaster of their national history. History may not repeat itself, but it has given Palestinians few reasons to believe that things have fundamentally changed. For many Palestinians, 1948 is their Groundhog Day.

This year will be even more difficult for Palestinians. Not only because they find themselves, frustrated, dejected and stuck in the same dead end they’ve known throughout their history, but also because Israel will be celebrating the 70th anniversary of its independence. The Israeli government will be feting the events that were a historical redemption for Jews but are the landmarks signposts of the Nakba, their catastrophe, for the Palestinians. For each come-from-behind victory of Jewish valor that Israel will mark, there is a corresponding disaster that Palestinians will mourn.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...8-is-groundhog-day-for-palestinians-1.5762358

 

[abiG]

...so why not take the deal when there's a GREAT deal on the table? What exactly are they waiting for?

Yes, "a GREAT deal." I'm sure you are right.

Wait a sec, if I stole your home and then out of the kindness of my heart allowed you and your family to live in what was your basement, you'd be OK with that?

Nah, you're full of shit.

 

[Phr3121]

...so why not take the deal when there's a GREAT deal on the table? What exactly are they holding out for anyway? Realistically, what could possibly be better than Bill Clinton's proposal?

You know the answer. It would mean recognition of Israel, which the Palestinians refuse to recognize. Why wasn't this 'great' proposal offered in 1948? Also, who is to say the Israelis are going to go through with their promise? They have lied before and changed their minds on a variety of issues. You can have the Israelis sign all the documents you want. Again, who is going to enforce the rules? Much like the UN and their 'pie-in-the-sky' resolutions. Its only paper...

The Israelis have an Army, Navy, and Air Force. The Palestinians have rocks and a few AK-47s.

 

[trolldum]

You know the answer. It would mean recognition of Israel, which the Palestinians refuse to recognize. Why wasn't this 'great' proposal offered in 1948? Also, who is to say the Israelis are going to go through with their promise? They have lied before and changed their minds on a variety of issues. You can have the Israelis sign all the documents you want. Again, who is going to enforce the rules? Much like the UN and their 'pie-in-the-sky' resolutions. Its only paper...

The Israelis have an Army, Navy, and Air Force. The Palestinians have rocks and a few AK-47s.

In the first map, only territory that is covered by Jewish settlements is labeled as Jewish, not even majority municipalities. While everything else, including uninhabited territory is labeled as Palestinian.

And in the last map is quite the opposite, but also false because it's not showing Arab areas in Israel.

 

[12ga.]

...so why not take the deal when there's a GREAT deal on the table?

What exactly are they holding out for anyway? Realistically, what could possibly be better than Bill Clinton's proposal?

The Saudi asked Arafat that question back in 2001. I asked that question again a year ago, and still no one seems to know. No one who's grounded in this reality instead of a dream world, anyway.

Thats not really a great deal. It's not even 48' lines let alone 67' and rewards Israel with settlements which is a violation of post WW2 order like Russia taking Crimea. Russia get sanctions. Israel gets 4-7 billion in aid from us every year from us and priceless UN sole vetos.

The whole arab league is behind two state, PLO/PA is, Iran is but not those lines they want the international ones. Israel doesnt. Israel is the impediment to peace and uses bottle rockets launched by resistors as a pretext to continue expansion every few years.

 

[Arkain2K]

Thats not really a great deal. It's not even 48' lines let alone 67' and rewards Israel with settlements which is a violation of post WW2 order like Russia taking Crimea. Russia get sanctions. Israel gets 4-7 billion in aid from us every year from us and priceless UN sole vetos.

The whole arab league is behind two state, PLO/PA is, Iran is but not those lines they want the international ones. Israel doesnt. Israel is the impediment to peace and uses bottle rockets launched by resistors as a pretext to continue expansion every few years.

The question was: "What exactly are they holding out for anyway? Realistically, what could possibly be better than Bill Clinton's proposal?"

There's absolutely nothing in your entire response that's even remotely be close to being an answer to that question.

It's now been nearly two decades since Camp David, and I have yet to see a single proposal from anyone, including the most fervent supporters of Israel and Palestine through THREE iterations of this discussion thread, that's more realistic and workable to both sides than what Bill Clinton put forth in 2001.

If you have one, I'd love to hear it.

 

[12ga.]

UNs? Or Arab league's which is identical? Cinton's is a zionist plan. US presidents are zionists - all of them - and not fair brokers. Which is why they are the only ones who vote to block sanctions against Israel for it's rap sheet against intl law.

 

[Arkain2K]

Also, who is to say the Israelis are going to go through with their promise? They have lied before and changed their minds on a variety of issues. You can have the Israelis sign all the documents you want. Again, who is going to enforce the rules? Much like the UN and their 'pie-in-the-sky' resolutions. Its only paper...

The Israelis have an Army, Navy, and Air Force. The Palestinians have rocks and a few AK-47s.

All negotiations should end once and for all then, since whatever finally peace agreement both sides can agree on will be utterly useless. Is that the gist of your argument here?

 

[Phr3121]

All negotiations should end once and for all then, since whatever finally peace agreement both sides can agree on will be utterly useless. Is that the gist of your argument here?

Not quite. Let the Palestinians draw up a 'plan' for the Israelis to approve. Not the other way around. But hey, guess what, the Israelis will not accept any Palestinian plan either. It's all a game for the Israelis. They are just buying time. They will never surrender territory to Palestinians. They just keep taking more and more, little by little, like they have been doing for 70 years. Like I said before...

The world does not care for Palestinians. Not the U.S. or the UN. A Palestinian life is worth less than a Israeli life. A Israeli life is worth less than an American life, and so on. If you are not part of the 1st world or have something to bring to the table (oil), nobody gives a shit. Palestinians will forever live as refugees. They will eventually become extinct.

​

 

[Arkain2K]

UNs? Or Arab league's which is identical?

Would be nice if you can invent a Time Machine to go back to 1948 and somehow prevents the Arabs from flushing that plan down the toilet, isn't it?

Or perhaps a shorter Time Jump to 1967 and tell them exactly what you are telling me now, with all the maps and memes that the pro-Palestine crowd are spamming in this thread as evidence of what to come, that oughtta convince them to not fucking it up again and again, on the negotiation table as well as on the battle field.

Alas, we live in reality, where real actions have real consequences, and you don't have a Time Machine.

When I asked for your "realistic and workable" idea, I really thought you had something better than those from the rejected pile.

 

[12ga.]

Would be nice if you can invent a Time Machine to go back to 1947 and somehow prevents the Arabs from flushing that plan down the toilet, isn't it?

Alas, we live in reality, where real actions have real consequences, and you don't have a Time Machine.

When I asked for your "realistic and workable" idea, I really thought you had something better than those from the rejected pile.

Workable is no sides would like but US must enforce it since they support both sides and have leverage.

I'd do 67 lines no return right and Israel owes 75 billion for reparation for the 750,000 booted to rebuild their states.

Israel is still Jewish state. Palestinians have diminished homland but money to rebuild it.