Are there any top tier Dutch kickboxers who have successfully incorporated true Muay Thai?

[onne1983]

and you totally misunderstood the point I was making! It takes two people to bet in the stadiums, so for every Thai betting on the opponent, they would have to place that bet with another Thai who would obviously had to have bet on Dekkers, for everyone making money as you say, there has to be someone losing money! So how would you have those Thais that are taking the bets on Dekkers to accept a wrong decision!?!? This isn't about being a keyboard warrior its about how the system works there and you are basing your knowledge on what? K-1fans torrent days. Well I have actually seen Dekkers fight live in Lumpini stadium and seen the Thai's betting as they always do on fights, and again for everyone there betting on the Thai they were betting with other Thai's that were placing their money on Dekkers. I saw Dekkers fight live in Paris as well and he was one of the main reasons I got into the sport as much as I did watching his fights back in late 80"s early 90's. I probably wouldn't be where I am now if it wasn't for being a fan of him, but the longer I've been involved in the sport the more understanding I've picked up and your argument is a false one, doesn't take anything away from what a warrior Ramon was, he is remembered by the Thai's more than any other foreigners that has competed in the sport and still held in high regard, but the decisions that went against him in the stadiums were fair.

Yes they were fair. i agree! Most of them! People keep forgetting that kicks score higher then punches. And since Ramon was a puncher and a pressure fighter people assumed he got robbed. (In Kickboxing rules, he most likely would have gotten a lot more decisions his way!)...


K-1fans torrent days!! Those were the best times! DONT HATE ON K-1Fans!

 

[AbeRudder]

Sherdog logic, A fighter lost, so he is a can!
Come on, the hate for (Dutch) kickboxing here is off the charts! Muaythai has it's beautiful side, and so does Kickboxing. Both different sports.
But Ramon Dekkers deserves his credit, because of his style, Muaythai evolved. No he wasn't the best Muaythai fighter out there, but he was a warrior and never ducked anyone.


Lately all i see on this section of the Forum are topics about Muaythai vs western(Dutch) kickboxing, with all the MT fanboys acting all high and mighty over the regular kickboxing fans..

Not one comment here called Ramon a 'can'. He was a great fighter but people just blow his achievements way out of proportion. If someone said that Buakaw is one of the greatest muay thai fighters of all time then most people here would respond in a similar manner, bringing up his losses, lack of titles etc. It's not 'hate' it's just a discussion.....

 

[onne1983]

Not one comment here called Ramon a 'can'. He was a great fighter but people just blow his achievements way out of proportion. If someone said that Buakaw is one of the greatest muay thai fighters of all time then most people here would respond in a similar manner, bringing up his losses, lack of titles etc. It's not 'hate' it's just a discussion.....

Not a can, but many now put down what Dekkers performed due to his record. His style was what made people like him. Win or lose, If Ramon fought, it was a war!

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

Ramon Dekkers is a true legend just the way he is.

Dekkers was one of the main reasons I got into the sport as much as I did watching his fights back in late 80"s early 90's. I probably wouldn't be where I am now if it wasn't for being a fan of him (...) Ramon was (a warrior) he is remembered by the Thai's more than any other foreigners that has competed in the sport and still held in high regard

Ramon was a great fighter

VS.

Sherdog logic, A fighter lost, so he is a can!
Come on, the hate for (Dutch) kickboxing here is off the charts! Lately all i see on this section of the Forum are topics about Muaythai vs western(Dutch) kickboxing, with all the MT fanboys acting all high and mighty over the regular kickboxing fans..

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Sherdog logic, A fighter lost, so he is a can!
Come on, the hate for (Dutch) kickboxing here is off the charts! Muaythai has it's beautiful side, and so does Kickboxing. Both different sports.
But Ramon Dekkers deserves his credit, because of his style, Muaythai evolved. No he wasn't the best Muaythai fighter out there, but he was a warrior and never ducked anyone.


Lately all i see on this section of the Forum are topics about Muaythai vs western(Dutch) kickboxing, with all the MT fanboys acting all high and mighty over the regular kickboxing fans..

Don't know what you mean by "hate". The Dutch just aren't that great at muay thai and didn't revolutionize the sport like people claim. You said it yourself, kickboxing and muay thai aren't the same sport.

 

[Literally Bricked]

Oops wrong thread

No one is complaining.

 

[Snubnoze707]

But Ramon Dekkers deserves his credit, because of his style, Muaythai evolved.

How did it evolve because of him?

 

[Kanka]

Just because you're objective about someting and debunking the myths it doesn't mean you're a hater? Ramon dekkers legitimately lost quite a few fights and those weren't robberies!

Am i a hater if i say Buakaw hasn't achieved nearly as much in muay thai as other multiple other fighters have? I love Buakaw but you have to be objective and not be reinforcing false myths

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Here, superman punches before MMA existed.

8:57

0:47
By "flicky teep type kicks to the face" I assume you specifically mean that uppercut-style kick that MMArs love so much, which is semi-common in old footage but I can't be bothered to spoonfeed you anymore. Why don't you go look for yourself? https://vimeo.com/user50805189

Again, why don't you just watch the fights, since you obviously haven't? This isn't some unknowable, subjective mystery, you can just watch him lose, fair and square, over and over again. Why does Dekkers' opinion mean more to you than just watching the fights with your own eyes?

There is also this guy another puncher and well known in his time.

 

[tombombadil]

Oops wrong thread

nope. you did well.

 

[Joe Buck]

Sorry but I have heard those excuses from Muay Thai afficionados once they got beaten by a different style.

DDekkersis the best fighter who overcame the Thais in Lumpinee.

Dear, DEKKERS never won the Lumpinee nor rajadamnoean.
He was juiced as hell.

 

[potemkin723]

Dear, DEKKERS never won the Lumpinee nor rajadamnoean.
He was juiced as hell.

Farangs don't win by points in Lumpinee or Radjadamnern , unless it is by KO.

 

[Deleted member 363827]

Farangs don't win by points in Lumpinee or Radjadamnern , unless it is by KO.

Dear, come on, if you wanna troll at least try harder. Ever heard of Damien Kwaithong-gym? I also heard JWP has got quite a few decision wins in Thailand...hmm
Oh wait haven't the Best of Siam held event there recently? I heard nearly all Farang won there too.

Actually, the only one I thought Ramon was robbed was when he fought in Japan not Thailand, was it against Sangtiennoi? Not sure really.

 

[onne1983]

Don't know what you mean by "hate". The Dutch just aren't that great at muay thai and didn't revolutionize the sport like people claim. You said it yourself, kickboxing and muay thai aren't the same sport.

Maybe hate was a bit too strong of a word to use..
But almost half of the topics on this forum are about Muaythai compared to Dutch kickboxing in some sort of way. Gives a bit of the feeling that people just want to tell here how superior MT is above Kickboxing in their eyes..

 

[onne1983]

How did it evolve because of him?

The power of Dekkers lied in his hands. Their were a few Thais who could punch of course, but the way Dekkers used his forward fighting and the fighters needed to adapt their defense for his style.
Im not saying he completly changed the game, but he was a new style. and they needed to adapt their gameplan to that.

 

[Deleted member 363827]

Maybe hate was a bit too strong of a word to use..
But almost half of the topics on this forum are about Muaythai compared to Dutch kickboxing in some sort of way. Gives a bit of the feeling that people just want to tell here how superior MT is above Kickboxing in their eyes..

If you think half of the topics on this forum are about muay thai, then you have not been in this forum long enough.
It is more like a mixed of Japanese, Chinese, and European kickboxing scenes and muay thai.
You just get an impression that muay thai is every where because muay thai fighters are willing to go to
compete in kickboxing abroad.

 

[onne1983]

Dear, DEKKERS never won the Lumpinee nor rajadamnoean.
He was juiced as hell.

Juiced, i dont know.
Coked up, Yes.

 

[onne1983]

If you think half of the topics on this forum are about muay thai, then you have not been in this forum long enough.
It is more like a mixed of Japanese, Chinese, and European kickboxing scenes and muay thai.
You just get an impression that muay thai is every where because muay thai fighters are willing to go to
compete in kickboxing abroad.

Im on this forum for over a decade. I always keep checking this site, although i never talk that much here because there are just too many trolls on this forum. And im just getting the feeling that lately it's too much talk of KB vs MT. with too many biased opinions from either side.

 

[Joe Buck]

Farangs don't win by points in Lumpinee or Radjadamnern , unless it is by KO.

Farang lose because they don't respect the rules in lumpinee or Radjamnern.


Jc SKARBOVSKY was the best a rajadamnoen

DAMIEN ALAMOS won the Lumpinee.



Both respect the rules, the rythm, the ethics, the aesthetic of muay thai.

It's not only i punch u in the face like a wild animal.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Im on this forum for over a decade. I always keep checking this site, although i never talk that much here because there are just too many trolls on this forum. And im just getting the feeling that lately it's too much talk of KB vs MT. with too many biased opinions from either side.

To the contrary, I would say in the last 6 months or so we've been essentially troll free, and have also seen a drastic drop in KB vs MT topics outside a few flare ups.