Social Are you pro choice or pro life?

[SBJJ]

AKA the Trump position. I think he's probably paid for more abortions than any man in history.

See. You agree with him on certain issues. Just the more disgusting ones

 

[SBJJ]

Lol at the ignorant misconception that to be pro choice you need to be pro the government funding it

 

[wonderbread]

The only thing I disagree with are women that use it as birth control because they are too stupid to be responsible.

 

[dannialn]

I'm for anything that puts a dent in the stupidly growing amount of people.
There are enough of us on this planet, we already fucked it.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

See. You agree with him on certain issues. Just the more disgusting ones

Well, FWIW, I've never paid for an abortion.

 

[panamaican]

I did answer it.



Nobody has made the argument against anything in all circumstances with no exceptions, including killing, theft, physical violence. I've not heard one person say the mother should die, that would be the opposite of "pro-life" and that's not what the pro-abortion people are arguing for.

I didn't ask you what all of the choices are. I asked if, in event of pregnancy via rape, you support her ability to choose, including abortion?

It's a very straightforward question. Yes, in the event of pregnancy via rape, you support her ability to make the choice - including abortion. No, in the event of pregnancy via rape, you do not support her ability to make the choice - including abortion.

The refusal to be clear in your answer is just delaying how long before we can move to the next question.

 

[Lead]

@Lead and @Tobacco being pro-life but not letting it define their politics or force them to justify indefensible policy positions that are politically adjacent?



It's actually unfortunate that the pro-life movement has been commandeered and defined by morons. It's one of the few right-wing positions that isn't empirically bunk or hypocritical.

I didn't even say anything and you're putting words in my mouth. What's the argument you are making? That if you support a prolife stance, that you should also provide social programs for those additional children? Because I've frequently mentioned that to others who say they are prolife.

 

[Trotsky]

I didn't even say anything and you're putting words in my mouth. What's the argument you are making? That if you support a prolife stance, that you should also provide social programs for those additional children? Because I've frequently mentioned that to others who say they are prolife.

Hmm, I think you misread my post. My argument was that you two are pro-life but aren't caused to be partisan turds by the stance.

 

[Higus]

www.kingsmeadow.com/wp/killer-angel-margaret-sanger-in-her-own-words/

Here is a start

I'm probably not going to have a lot of time today to go down into this rabbit hole. I will say that a lot of the quotes on here are either taken out of context or outright fabricated. See page 3.
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/8013/9611/6937/Opposition_Claims_About_Margaret_Sanger.pdf

Sanger is a complicated person to judge in modern times. Her most controversial opinions by today's standards were that mentally challenged people should be sterilized, but even that was not considered a radical opinion at the time. In broad terms, she believed that having more children than one could afford was reckless and that birth control was the solution. Interestingly enough, she was actually against abortion, and argued that birth control availability and education was the most effective way to reduce abortions.

There was a lot of overlap between her beliefs and the Eugenics movement. Eugenicists believed in breeding out the "unfit" for the benefit of Society, whereas Sanger was more concerned about the individual woman making her own decisions. Either to or against her credit, she would often speak to groups of racial eugenicists in order to find common ground with a willing audience. She adamantly did not believe that race was a negative trait to be bred out.

Her beliefs on educating and empowering women with birth control planning intersected with poverty stricken African American communities with little access to healthcare. She worked with leaders and organizations like the NAACP, The Urban League and church groups to educate black communities and help lift families out of poverty.

Again, I might not have a lot of time to do a lot of in depth responses, so hopefully other can chime in. I'll try to reply when I have the time or in the Lounge if the thread dies off. Cheers.

 

[MPD-Psycho]

Gonna go with case-by-case. Hard set on either extreme seems like an easy way out imo.

 

[nostradumbass]

I didn't ask you what all of the choices are. I asked if, in event of pregnancy via rape, you support her ability to choose, including abortion?

It's a very straightforward question. Yes, in the event of pregnancy via rape, you support her ability to make the choice - including abortion. No, in the event of pregnancy via rape, you do not support her ability to make the choice - including abortion.

The refusal to be clear in your answer is just delaying how long before we can move to the next question.

How much clearer can I be? I do not support killing it, nor do I think she should have to keep it, which were your 2 choices. She should take a morning after pill when a rapist just jizzed in her so there's no baby to kill in the first place, and the rapist should be castrated and sent to prison. Because pregnancy is so easily prevented, people will call the pro-abortion bluff by saying "ok, would you agree to only cases of rape or to save the mother's life?" The answer to that is always no because it's a silly argument that applies to almost nobody.

 

[Lead]

Hmm, I think you misread my post. My argument was that you two are pro-life but aren't caused to be partisan turds by the stance.

Oh, sorry for being overly defensive. Yea, I read that wrong. I mean, I do think it's a very important issue but I understand the change in stance is based on the question of when life or the humanity of a fetus begins. I don't think there are many people out there who think you should still be allowed once we recognize that point since partial birth abortion is vastly unpopular.

 

[panamaican]

How much clearer can I be? I do not support killing it, nor do I think she should have to keep it, which were your 2 choices. She should take a morning after pill when a rapist just jizzed in her so there's no baby to kill in the first place, and the rapist should be castrated and sent to prison. Because pregnancy is so easily prevented, people will call the pro-abortion bluff by saying "ok, would you agree to only cases of rape or to save the mother's life?" The answer to that is always no because it's a silly argument that applies to almost nobody.

You misunderstood - "keep it" as in "keep the pregnancy" full term. I'm going to move to the next question then: Do you support abortion in the case where the mother's life in danger?

 

[Higus]

How much clearer can I be? I do not support killing it, nor do I think she should have to keep it, which were your 2 choices. She should take a morning after pill when a rapist just jizzed in her so there's no baby to kill in the first place, and the rapist should be castrated and sent to prison. Because pregnancy is so easily prevented, people will call the pro-abortion bluff by saying "ok, would you agree to only cases of rape or to save the mother's life?" The answer to that is always no because it's a silly argument that applies to almost nobody.

Somebody want to tell this guy how Plan B (or most hormonal birth control) actually work?

 

[Anung Un Rama]

It doesn't. Gotta read the whole thing son. You will get it eventually I promise. Just focus a little.

If- by making abortion illegal, you also reduce access to sex education, family planning, and birth control, you will end up with more unplanned and unwanted pregnancies. Which will lead to more abortions, not less. Even if it is illegal.

No, I read the whole thing. You made an indefensible statement and then added a bunch of caveats to defend it.
The legality of abortion has nothing to do with the quantity of abortions.

Now that I've won that brief contest, you bring up incredibly important aspects of any change in the law.

Any reversal in this law should be rolled out relatively slowly (12 to 18 months) so that:
1. Planned Parenthood can get an enormous funding boost (now that abortion isn't an issue the right can pull back on their lying about and demagoguing an important program).
2. Public Schools can get a huge funding boost in sex-education. This should include community outreach in the more impoverished/ less educated areas.
3. Public service announcements can be issued so relentlessly that even the deaf, dumb, and blind know every detail of the law, its repercussions, and ways to protect oneself.

I will also add that the right has latched onto this issue more for political reasons than moral/ ethical ones. If they were interested in the moral/ ethical aspects of abortion they would have been boosting those programs for the last 45 years while also fighting RvW.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Somebody want to tell this guy how Plan B (or most hormonal birth control) actually work?

He seems to be correct. Plan B can prevent a pregnancy from ever occurring. That is kind of the point of Plan B.

 

[Higus]

He seems to be correct. Plan B can prevent a pregnancy from ever occurring. That is kind of the point of Plan B.

Plan B, and many other hormonal birth controls, prevents pregnancy by preventing fertilized eggs from implanting in the uterus.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

@Lead and @Tobacco being pro-life but not letting it define their politics or force them to justify indefensible policy positions that are politically adjacent?



It's actually unfortunate that the pro-life movement has been commandeered and defined by morons. It's one of the few right-wing positions that isn't empirically bunk or hypocritical.

The right-wing view on policy regarding abortion is hypocritical.
They're against sex education and planned parenthood, 2 programs that are essential in keeping the amount of unwanted pregnancies as low as possible.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Plan B, and many other hormonal birth controls, prevents pregnancy by preventing fertilized eggs from implanting in the uterus.

They also prevent the egg from being released and prevent fertilization.

 

[Higus]

They also prevent the egg from being released and prevent fertilization.

yes, that is also true. Begs the question if he thinks life begins at fertilization or implantation or if he even considered the distinction.