Are You Tough Enough?

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Ha! You see a similar thing happen with instructors who have developed a "counter" move to some technique that they teach their students.

A common example is an instructor 'teaching' a move like, say, a wrestling style takedown, then having a student perform it on him (at 'teaching' speed and power) and then using his counter on it to show that the moves not effective/his art has a counter for another arts moves. In this way the, say, Ninjutsu master can prove to his students that they he can defeat wrestling.

The flaw, of course, is that at no point did they actually interact with any wrestlers. The student(s) only interacted with their teacher, who showed them a move from another art performed in such a way that it is designed to be defeated by what they really want to show. That's where you get those funny sequences where the instructor says 'now grab my sleeve, no like this, no, like this!' because his "counter" only works one way.

MMA guys have said (for decades now) that wouldn't work on an ACTUAL practitioner of the art doing the move (like in Wiz's threads, where people say 'that wouldn't work against anyone who actually grapples/wrestles, ect). The counter has been, and will forever be, one of two responses:

1 - "We train for the streets!" Which really doesn't make any sense unless all you plan on doing in the streets is fighting your fellow dojo buddies.

2 - "We aren't (say) wrestlers, so we do it our own way/don't have to follow your rules!" Which makes sense, except that the move they just showed is supposed to be a counter for a wrestling take-down.



Anyways, it's a tried and tested system, and you can find examples of it in EVERY Bullshido video. From Aikido guys showing how to counter boxers and having an Aikido student do "boxing" moves the way the Aikido instructor wants them to, to Chinese Ninja's showing how to counter double legs.

Absolutely

In his defense though, it still wasn't really Bullshido. I believe in my capacity to whip the shit out of an unarmed person by using a stick ;)

He had been to some dog brothers stuff and taught their system a bit. It was good stuff. I just doubt the effectiveness in patty cake / dead patterns and doubt that their skill came from them as much as they say.
 
So, the TS wants to know if we are tough enough to plank for an unimpressive length of time?
 
Absolutely

In his defense though, it still wasn't really Bullshido. I believe in my capacity to whip the shit out of an unarmed person by using a stick ;)

He had been to some dog brothers stuff and taught their system a bit. It was good stuff. I just doubt the effectiveness in patty cake / dead patterns and doubt that their skill came from them as much as they say.

Yeah, sorry, i wasn't trying to say that was the situation in your case, just that's a similar situation.

In a similar way, I've seen lots of Karate instructors and students who can do armbars and hip throws that would totally work against an opponent who wasn't a trained grapler, moves that they had picked up from usually someone that did Judo, which they gladly taught.


So, the TS wants to know if we are tough enough to plank for an unimpressive length of time?

In his defense, the actual difficult part of this isn't the plank, it's the pressure on the bones in the hands. I can plank for... I don't even know, minutes, but I couldn't hold that position on my fists.
 
Ayin, I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching judo moves as a karate man. If I get to teach, sometimes I teach my robotically precise and soulless double leg which I've never seen as anything but a vehicle to practice sprawls and down blocking. But I'm very careful to show it at least as correctly as I've seen in any BJJ gym, and I don't pretend to be a wrestler.

"this is to open your mind to the technical problem of the take down."

My gripe is when a karate teacher secretly has a Judo black belt, and pretends his superior skill performing karate take downs is from karate only and the justification for his X dan grade, leaving his students to believe that one day they can get on his level without doing judo.
 
Oh, yeah, that's... pretty odd.

I mean... if you'rre highly accomplished in two martial arts, why would you not promote that/teach both? Or why would you try and promote one while keeping the other secret?

I can understand the 'here's an armbar a friend showed me', but the 'Haha! Now that I've got my BJJ blackbelt and 5 years Muay Thai training I'll totally be able to convince people that they can be like me by practicing Ninjitsu!'... that's just crazy.
 
Oh, yeah, that's... pretty odd.

I mean... if you'rre highly accomplished in two martial arts, why would you not promote that/teach both? Or why would you try and promote one while keeping the other secret?

I can understand the 'here's an armbar a friend showed me', but the 'Haha! Now that I've got my BJJ blackbelt and 5 years Muay Thai training I'll totally be able to convince people that they can be like me by practicing Ninjitsu!'... that's just crazy.

I don't know why people do anything. I met a guy who did knockdown karate for 20 years before becoming a systema instructor. He never teaches karate kicks or kata or nothing, only systema, and acts like karate is garbage.

He's easily the best systema guy I've ever seen, better than the founders. He looks sharp as hell. His students don't though because he only teaches systema. It isn't like he's lying or screwing with people: he just really believes in it.

Apparently there are a lot of ex karate guys in systema.

I've met several ex college fencers that act like they only do Kali.
 
Ayin, I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching judo moves as a karate man. If I get to teach, sometimes I teach my robotically precise and soulless double leg which I've never seen as anything but a vehicle to practice sprawls and down blocking. But I'm very careful to show it at least as correctly as I've seen in any BJJ gym, and I don't pretend to be a wrestler.

"this is to open your mind to the technical problem of the take down."

My gripe is when a karate teacher secretly has a Judo black belt, and pretends his superior skill performing karate take downs is from karate only and the justification for his X dan grade, leaving his students to believe that one day they can get on his level without doing judo.

sounds like something ive heard people say about a certain TKD youtube vid uploader...
 
1. Margarito's most notable attributes are chin and endurance, sure. But he's also an effective pressure fighter who know how to overwhelm people by massive volume of punches and cornering them on the ropes/corner. There are about a thousand of those with chin and endurance like him languish below. He had a combination of attributes that allowed him to be in the highest class of his job: boxing. You can't really say that someone in MMA (who basically a jack-of-all-trade-master-of-none) have better skills than someone who had reached the top of their sport.

2. I started the personal attack because your opinion is so skewered and wrong that it bordered on idiocy. Add that to my pissed off mood because of this thread and it resulted in that. Now I apologize, but i have a low tolerance for shits that just plain wrong.

3. Like me and Harukaze discussed in the beginning, wiz's exercises are just same piss pass on in different bottle. And beside, there are thousand other, more effective alternatives that works just as well that doesn't required people to crawl like a dog. He also had the gall to claim that people are being close minded and not accepting/considering other things outside, and in a few next posts proceed to shit on a Hapkido video of showing some other fist exercises, by saying that "Hapkido is only a watered down form of Shaolin". I don't know about you, but i sure as hell don't trust a guy like that with his content.

4. Like Nakmuay said, read wiz's previous posts and threads. He had been collectively piled on in the stand up forum, the grappling forum, and the OT because of the contents (vids/pics) he posted. One does not simply get piled on by at least half of the population for just a few posts that rubbed people the wrong way.

Phew, i am way too gotten to lol. Probably not gonna check out this thread for now.


Ok I am on your side after OPs post:

i will rape your mother everytime.you are just a big mouth punk so many online. so i like to rape their mothers like i rape yours.

OP, I am a big fan of chinese martial arts as well as other TMA styles but this post is unacceptable and you have been here for 11 years which is an amazing feat in it self but leaving comment like that makes you lose credibility as well as supporters since I do not want to defend an individual who uses this kind of talk specialy a person who is suppose to be providing safety to civilians againts scums of the earth.
 
Yo, yo, yo, yo,
Check me out:

Wiz Cool C, the Sherdog clown
With another lame video to crack up the crowd
Christopher, listen please,
This isn't the 80s,
Your bullshido bullshit is so obsolete

And yo, every time he tries to demonstrate
It's irrelevant tactics and I'm not trying to hate
Nah, I Just keep it 100,
This guy's TMA has been made redundant
 
i will rape your mother everytime.you are just a big mouth punk so many online. so i like to rape their mothers like i rape yours.

This is unacceptable. I hope a mod brings out the ban hammer. You should be ashamed of yourself. What would your mother think???

Babba was commenting on his belief that what you were teaching would not provide sufficient defence in a hypothetical situation.

You however are just being aggressively insulting.


This says a lot about your character and none of it is good. Please meditate on what you have done.
 
Phlog said:
This says a lot about your character and none of it is good. Please meditate on what you have done.

Why would someone put up 'women's self-defence' videos and then say he's going to rape women?

Maybe he has multiple personalities.
 
This is unacceptable. I hope a mod brings out the ban hammer. You should be ashamed of yourself. What would your mother think???

Babba was commenting on his belief that what you were teaching would not provide sufficient defence in a hypothetical situation.

You however are just being aggressively insulting.


This says a lot about your character and none of it is good. Please meditate on what you have done.

way ahead of you.

if anyone thought that was acceptable, not a chance.
 
sounds like something ive heard people say about a certain TKD youtube vid uploader...

I just thought of one or two more instructors I know like this.

One of my instructors is just fucking amazing . I've seen him tool a guy that was on UFC (like 10 years ago). He mostly teaches Muay Thai but sometimes he will start telling me to do something, like a Judo chain throw. I tell him that I don't know any part of what he's talking about, but he doesn't get it. He did judo from the age of like 3-14 or something, and never stopped throwing people, so I think he's barely aware he trained it. He thinks it is natural and that everyone could do it if they weren't stupid.

In other peoples cases, I think it is in large part hubris. They think their students are too weak for the real training and that untrained people are too weak and stupid to fight their half trained students.
 
I feel like the biggest tool for defending the guy who made disgusting remarks like that.
 
I don't care wiz got banned, he will alway be in our hearts. *sniff* *tear rolls down cheek*
 
nice...i got to see an 11 year old account e-suicide.

Why would someone put up 'women's self-defence' videos and then say he's going to rape women?

Maybe he has multiple personalities.

prob a good way to get victims, no?
 
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