Athleticism vs Skill

Legendary

Legendary

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With all the A-Level athlete talk, and with Kevin Lee's victory over Edson, it has me thinking about the athleticism of the average MMA fighter. BJJ coaches will always say that all you need is sport specific training but I am here to say why that is bullshit.

1. While skill is the most important thing, if two fighters are similar in skill, then the faster, stronger fighter is going to have the advantage.

2. Demian Maia, is Aeons ahead of Colby Covington when it comes to pure grappling skill, but Colby is much stronger, much faster, and even with technical gap, Colby was still able to dominate with his athleticism.

3. When Kevin and Khabib fought Edson, they beat him not because they were worlds better then him, they beat him because they are much stronger, faster, and it doesn't matter how good your skill is if your getting blasted. Their wrestling was better yes, but they are obviously just more physical then Edson.

4. You ever see that one white belt who taps blues and purples in the gym? Yeah its because he is faster and stronger, not because his pure skill is better then blues and purples.

5. On Another note, Athletic fighters are more entertaining. Would you rather watch Khabib throwing guys through the air, or Ryan Laflare stalling for 10 minutes?
 
Athleticism makes you better at athletics...

I don't think anyone would dispute this
 
Against untrained opponents, a skilled fighter can win despite a large disadvanatage in strength, size, and speed. Against untrained opponents, an unskilled fighter can can win given an advantage in size, strength, and speed.

When size, strength, and speed are about equal, the fighter with greater skill usually wins. When skill is about equal, the bigger, stronger, faster fighter usually wins.
 
You can get by with either being supremely skilled or supremely athletic.

You won't become champion without both.
 
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replace hot/crazy with athleticism/skill
 
They were just factors. Someone more skilled and athletic can still lose. Confidence, experience, luck, style, game plan are all in there too
 
Wrong. Size is the most important thing, followed by athleticism/genetics. The importance of size is why there are weight classes in MMA, and the importance of genetics is why 160 lbs chimps with zero skill would rape the best human MMA fighters.

If A fights B and A has an extreme size/strength advantage but extreme skill disadvantage compared to B, e.g. A = elephant, B = Mighty Mouse, or A = prime Shaq, B = Rose Namajunas, A destroys B 1000 out of 1000 times.
 
Legendary said:
With all the A-Level athlete talk, and with Kevin Lee's victory over Edson, it has me thinking about the athleticism of the average MMA fighter. BJJ coaches will always say that all you need is sport specific training but I am here to say why that is bullshit.

1. While skill is the most important thing, if two fighters are similar in skill, then the faster, stronger fighter is going to have the advantage.

2. Demian Maia, is Aeons ahead of Colby Covington when it comes to pure grappling skill, but Colby is much stronger, much faster, and even with technical gap, Colby was still able to dominate with his athleticism.

3. When Kevin and Khabib fought Edson, they beat him not because they were worlds better then him, they beat him because they are much stronger, faster, and it doesn't matter how good your skill is if your getting blasted. Their wrestling was better yes, but they are obviously just more physical then Edson.

4. You ever see that one white belt who taps blues and purples in the gym? Yeah its because he is faster and stronger, not because his pure skill is better then blues and purples.

5. On Another note, Athletic fighters are more entertaining. Would you rather watch Khabib throwing guys through the air, or Ryan Laflare stalling for 10 minutes?
Click to expand...
I think you have to define what you mean by athleticism. Khabib is strong yes, but he's not athletic. He uses a tremendous amount of techinque. Barbosa on the other hand is fast as hell which is an element of athleticism.
The UFC is the premier fight organization. To be successful you have to have some combination of both.
 
All i can say is, after the Barboza/Lee fight, FIGHT IQ is the most important by far!
 
LouisBolanos said:
Wrong. Size is the most important thing, followed by athleticism/genetics. The importance of size is why there are weight classes in MMA, and the importance of genetics is why 160 lbs chimps with zero skill would rape the best human MMA fighters.

If A fights B and A has an extreme size/strength advantage but extreme skill disadvantage compared to B, e.g. A = elephant, B = Mighty Mouse, or A = prime Shaq, B = Rose Namajunas, A destroys B 1000 out of 1000 times.
Click to expand...
Not always true. You ever heard of a wolverine, honey badger, weasle? Pitbull? Lol
All animals that regularly destroy larger animals. Or a more relevant example, Marco Ruas against the "polar bear" I forget his name. There are many variables to fighting, but one of the most important is heart.
 
Both are nice, but bet on da riddum. Every time ...
 
I kind of agree TS. If CM Punk was the most skilled fighter in the world, I still don’t think he would be top 10 without a single fast twitch fiber in his body.
 
Legendary said:
With all the A-Level athlete talk, and with Kevin Lee's victory over Edson, it has me thinking about the athleticism of the average MMA fighter. BJJ coaches will always say that all you need is sport specific training but I am here to say why that is bullshit.

1. While skill is the most important thing, if two fighters are similar in skill, then the faster, stronger fighter is going to have the advantage.

2. Demian Maia, is Aeons ahead of Colby Covington when it comes to pure grappling skill, but Colby is much stronger, much faster, and even with technical gap, Colby was still able to dominate with his athleticism.

3. When Kevin and Khabib fought Edson, they beat him not because they were worlds better then him, they beat him because they are much stronger, faster, and it doesn't matter how good your skill is if your getting blasted. Their wrestling was better yes, but they are obviously just more physical then Edson.

4. You ever see that one white belt who taps blues and purples in the gym? Yeah its because he is faster and stronger, not because his pure skill is better then blues and purples.

5. On Another note, Athletic fighters are more entertaining. Would you rather watch Khabib throwing guys through the air, or Ryan Laflare stalling for 10 minutes?
Click to expand...
Timing beats speed and precision beats power
- Kenny Florian
 
Athleticism is far more important, IMO. It allows relatively untrained people like Brock Lesnar to become the champ. Think about Jon Jones early on, with minimal training. I believe he said he had never weight trained in his life for that matter (up to just a couple years ago). Anderson Silva is another example, with his speed, timing and accuracy (all athletic traits IMO) he dominated everyone even though he had pretty awful grappling (wrestling in particular).

Just some examples, IMO. There are folks who have become champ without an athletic bone in their body (forrest griffin is a good example) but I think it's still the most single powerful "ingredient" to a top-tier fighter.

Dope
 
Legendary said:
With all the A-Level athlete talk, and with Kevin Lee's victory over Edson, it has me thinking about the athleticism of the average MMA fighter. BJJ coaches will always say that all you need is sport specific training but I am here to say why that is bullshit.

1. While skill is the most important thing, if two fighters are similar in skill, then the faster, stronger fighter is going to have the advantage.

2. Demian Maia, is Aeons ahead of Colby Covington when it comes to pure grappling skill, but Colby is much stronger, much faster, and even with technical gap, Colby was still able to dominate with his athleticism.

3. When Kevin and Khabib fought Edson, they beat him not because they were worlds better then him, they beat him because they are much stronger, faster, and it doesn't matter how good your skill is if your getting blasted. Their wrestling was better yes, but they are obviously just more physical then Edson.

4. You ever see that one white belt who taps blues and purples in the gym? Yeah its because he is faster and stronger, not because his pure skill is better then blues and purples.

5. On Another note, Athletic fighters are more entertaining. Would you rather watch Khabib throwing guys through the air, or Ryan Laflare stalling for 10 minutes?
Click to expand...
Don’t forget cerebral. Can be as athletic or skilled as necessary but not all that smart lol.
 
Legendary said:
2. Demian Maia, is Aeons ahead of Colby Covington when it comes to pure grappling skill, but Colby is much stronger, much faster, and even with technical gap, Colby was still able to dominate with his athleticism.
Click to expand...

He's a grappling world champion that can't take down an average wrestler lmao. BJJ and its related grappling competitions are horse shit. You get supposed world grappling champions that can't even get a fight into grappling or on the ground, what the fuck is that bullshit

Colby Covington, under a better grappling ruleset -- wrestling -- is a more skilled grappler than Damian Maia.
 
Legendary said:
3. When Kevin and Khabib fought Edson, they beat him not because they were worlds better then him, they beat him because they are much stronger, faster, and it doesn't matter how good your skill is if your getting blasted. Their wrestling was better yes, but they are obviously just more physical then Edson.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this point. Edson is one of the most athletic guys in the division, his speed and quickness and fast twitch muscle movements are elite. He's definitely more traditionally "athletic" than someone like Khabib. Khabib and Kevin just have way, way more advanced grappling technique, and maybe more pure strength too, and that's why they beat him.
 
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