Bagwork and play"sparring"

[Sano]

Sup guys. Been keeping up with the boxing training, want to start sparring slowly again. I feel like I keep improving and I want to test it out, but be sensible about it this time around.

Met up with a friend from school yesterday and did some drills and the like. We only had one pair of gloves because mine is literally falling apart. I gave him the gloves and we just did some play/shadow sort of sparring. Well, he was allowed to hit me but not the other way around obviously, but I kinda like this sort of sparring for working on things.

He's a novice, I'm teaching him to box a little bit for fun, but he is suprisingly good straight down the pipe. He's like 6'3-6'4, has a long ass reach (he plays basketball) and moves around a lot, so I have to work for it honestly. Pretty fun though, and I get to work on stuff I wouldn't normally, and give him pointers on how to try to stiffle my advances:


I have a hard time taking sharp angles when sparring (granted he is moving a lot and there's not a lot of space to trap him). I need to work on that. Also, I have a very hard time throwing and landing hooks unless the person is a) trapped against the ropes/cage or shells up in a highguard. I think I always practice very short hooks and that might be it. Also part of it is that I feel they are difficult to throw without trying to hurt my sparring partner. Have to play around with it.

Here's a bagwork vid I recorded a few days ago as well:


Footwork needs to be a little more tight, I definitely should do more footwork drills and use more time on it.

Any feedback, comments or otherwise interjections are welcomed. Cheers.

Spoiler

Inb4 Just Bang/chin conditioning, @j123

 

[j123]

We only had one pair of gloves because mine is literally falling apart.

You sound poor

 

[Sano]

You sound poor

I very much am. Not for too long though.

 

[j123]

When you slip, you're slipping too backward instead of forwards

Quick and hard bangs will sort this out

 

[listrahtes]

You sound poor

You are getting repetitive.

 

[Sano]

When you slip, you're slipping too backward instead of forwards

Quick and hard bangs will sort this out

Yeah I usually fold my rear hip and crouch back when I'm slipping to my right, but I fold my lead hip and have my head more forward when slipping to my left. Just feels natural with the weight transfer of the hips, and when slipping to my right and jabbing I'm in a much more defensive position and don't get tagged as much. I should probably switch it up a little more to be more unpredictable with it, and with someone like him I'd gain more ground leaning forward, but I just don't want to create bad habits that someone else can capitalize on.

When I slip to my left and use the overhand right I'm vulnerable for a rear hand hook or uppercut. I'd have to teach him how to throw that so he can counter me. I do try to be aware of the counters though (even if he isn't throwing them), and time the overhand to connect at the same time his jab does more or less.

 

[j123]

Yeah I usually fold my rear hip and crouch back when I'm slipping to my right, but I fold my lead hip and have my head more forward when slipping to my left. Just feels natural with the weight transfer of the hips, and when slipping to my right and jabbing I'm in a much more defensive position and don't get tagged as much. I should probably switch it up a little more to be more unpredictable with it, and with someone like him I'd gain more ground leaning forward, but I just don't want to create bad habits that someone else can capitalize on.

When I slip to my left and use the overhand right I'm vulnerable for a rear hand hook or uppercut. I'd have to teach him how to throw that so he can counter me. I do try to be aware of the counters though (even if he isn't throwing them), and time the overhand to connect at the same time his jab does more or less.

It might be, but the point of slipping instead of blocking is so you can avoid their strike while countering asap. Capitalizing on it from being shifted back is now a "2 step" movement instead of 1. Even if you end up only slaying manlets, its still more moving parts than it should be. That's how I see it.

 

[shincheckin]

Sup guys. Been keeping up with the boxing training, want to start sparring slowly again. I feel like I keep improving and I want to test it out, but be sensible about it this time around.

Met up with a friend from school yesterday and did some drills and the like. We only had one pair of gloves because mine is literally falling apart. I gave him the gloves and we just did some play/shadow sort of sparring. Well, he was allowed to hit me but not the other way around obviously, but I kinda like this sort of sparring for working on things.

He's a novice, I'm teaching him to box a little bit for fun, but he is suprisingly good straight down the pipe. He's like 6'3-6'4, has a long ass reach (he plays basketball) and moves around a lot, so I have to work for it honestly. Pretty fun though, and I get to work on stuff I wouldn't normally, and give him pointers on how to try to stiffle my advances:


I have a hard time taking sharp angles when sparring (granted he is moving a lot and there's not a lot of space to trap him). I need to work on that. Also, I have a very hard time throwing and landing hooks unless the person is a) trapped against the ropes/cage or shells up in a highguard. I think I always practice very short hooks and that might be it. Also part of it is that I feel they are difficult to throw without trying to hurt my sparring partner. Have to play around with it.

Here's a bagwork vid I recorded a few days ago as well:


Footwork needs to be a little more tight, I definitely should do more footwork drills and use more time on it.

Any feedback, comments or otherwise interjections are welcomed. Cheers.

Spoiler

Inb4 Just Bang/chin conditioning, @j123

after reading through your post, I wanted to comment about sparring, you might want to try this as it has helped me, i wish i just had more guys willing to do it.

anyways....first a analogy.....lets take a skateboarder trying to grind down some stairs....he doesnt wear pads because hes too cool for pads........he tries the stairs once, falls and injures himself very badly. the 2nd skateboarder is wearing pads, tries to grind stairs, falls, doesnt get hurt due to pads, gets back up, tries it 10 more times until he nails it, thus improving.....point of the story is he was able to improve due to the pads allowing him to try again and again.

now lets apply this to sparring.

too many guys spar without all the proper gear.

hard sparring is needed, not everyday, but you cant never do it. A thing that I would do, in order to have hard sparring that equates into "soft" sparring..........is sparring with all this gear on.

1) facebar head gear
2) tkd chest protector
3) gloves
4) elbow pads
5) knee pads
6) double shin guards

I like doing this because it ups the intensity, but the padding allows it to still feel like 50-75% if that makes sense?!?!? so even though your going harder and faster etc etc.... it still feels like going 50% with just gloves and shinpads because you have all the extra padding on.

you might want to give this a shot. your boxing and counters look sharp. im still not a fan of the position of your back and how upright it is

 

[j123]

after reading through your post, I wanted to comment about sparring, you might want to try this as it has helped me, i wish i just had more guys willing to do it.

anyways....first a analogy.....lets take a skateboarder trying to grind down some stairs....he doesnt wear pads because hes too cool for pads........he tries the stairs once, falls and injures himself very badly. the 2nd skateboarder is wearing pads, tries to grind stairs, falls, doesnt get hurt due to pads, gets back up, tries it 10 more times until he nails it, thus improving.....point of the story is he was able to improve due to the pads allowing him to try again and again.

now lets apply this to sparring.

too many guys spar without all the proper gear.

hard sparring is needed, not everyday, but you cant never do it. A thing that I would do, in order to have hard sparring that equates into "soft" sparring..........is sparring with all this gear on.

1) facebar head gear
2) tkd chest protector
3) gloves
4) elbow pads
5) knee pads
6) double shin guards

I like doing this because it ups the intensity, but the padding allows it to still feel like 50-75% if that makes sense?!?!? so even though your going harder and faster etc etc.... it still feels like going 50% with just gloves and shinpads because you have all the extra padding on.

you might want to give this a shot. your boxing and counters look sharp. im still not a fan of the position of your back and how upright it is

Just wear motorcycle armor in sparring, it has much better padding, and headbutts with those are damaging

 

[Silver tongue samurai]

Just wear motorcycle armor in sparring, it has much better padding, and headbutts with those are damaging

bro

 

[Sano]

It might be, but the point of slipping instead of blocking is so you can avoid their strike while countering asap. Capitalizing on it from being shifted back is now a "2 step" movement instead of 1. Even if you end up only slaying manlets, its still more moving parts than it should be. That's how I see it.

Yeah obviously even with folding to the rear hip, the slip to the outside of his jab is supposed to be countered with my own jab at the same time. I'm pulling it here and he honestly is good at using his reach and staying on the outside, while also having his head back so there's a long way. I see your point though, it's something I'll think about for sure.

after reading through your post, I wanted to comment about sparring, you might want to try this as it has helped me, i wish i just had more guys willing to do it.

anyways....first a analogy.....lets take a skateboarder trying to grind down some stairs....he doesnt wear pads because hes too cool for pads........he tries the stairs once, falls and injures himself very badly. the 2nd skateboarder is wearing pads, tries to grind stairs, falls, doesnt get hurt due to pads, gets back up, tries it 10 more times until he nails it, thus improving.....point of the story is he was able to improve due to the pads allowing him to try again and again.

now lets apply this to sparring.

too many guys spar without all the proper gear.

hard sparring is needed, not everyday, but you cant never do it. A thing that I would do, in order to have hard sparring that equates into "soft" sparring..........is sparring with all this gear on.

1) facebar head gear
2) tkd chest protector
3) gloves
4) elbow pads
5) knee pads
6) double shin guards

I like doing this because it ups the intensity, but the padding allows it to still feel like 50-75% if that makes sense?!?!? so even though your going harder and faster etc etc.... it still feels like going 50% with just gloves and shinpads because you have all the extra padding on.

you might want to give this a shot. your boxing and counters look sharp. im still not a fan of the position of your back and how upright it is

It's funny, I even dropped the complete upright thing I had going (I took from it what I could) and reverted a little more back to my old style with crouching more. I know my back is straight but my chin is pretty well tucked and I'm crouching so I have a hard time thinking how it could look that much different unless I hunch which I really don't want to do. Personally just prefer to have good posture, but I may change it around. What exactly are you seeing that make you not like it, in regards to the vulnerabilites?

Yeah I should really use proper gear when I start sparring again. I used to basicly only do hard sparring, without the skill, and that's why after too much damage to the head I had to lay off entirely. I'll gear up extra with headgear even. Thanks.

 

[j123]

bro

Medieval Times successor

I wanna go in with 2 shields

 

[shincheckin]

Yeah obviously even with folding to the rear hip, the slip to the outside of his jab is supposed to be countered with my own jab at the same time. I'm pulling it here and he honestly is good at using his reach and staying on the outside, while also having his head back so there's a long way. I see your point though, it's something I'll think about for sure.


It's funny, I even dropped the complete upright thing I had going (I took from it what I could) and reverted a little more back to my old style with crouching more. I know my back is straight but my chin is pretty well tucked and I'm crouching so I have a hard time thinking how it could look that much different unless I hunch which I really don't want to do. Personally just prefer to have good posture, but I may change it around. What exactly are you seeing that make you not like it, in regards to the vulnerabilites?

Yeah I should really use proper gear when I start sparring again. I used to basicly only do hard sparring, without the skill, and that's why after too much damage to the head I had to lay off entirely. I'll gear up extra with headgear even. Thanks.

all the gear and the chest pad is something me and my old coach used to do. I think it helped me improve alot as I was able to spar with my coach at his level without getting injured. Where as without the pads I wouldnt be able to "hang" with him.

as far as your back goes, i did actually notice it looked different then the last time i saw it, and i can recall just now thinking to myself, hey its not as bad as last time.

its hard without being there in person to even fully know what i am looking at, but it just looks "off" to me. The balance point seems to far back, high up, and erect. Maybe its raising your center of gravity? it just seems like if i got you to take a few stops backwards/retreat, once you stop, your weight is too far back and too high, and if i just pushed you, you would fall back its really hard to tell/see without being there in person but if I had to guess, I would think that the upright back is causing you to have a higher center of gravity, and your weight too far back. i think its impossible to make any changes without actually seeing in person but I was just playing around in front of the mirror, if its not the back to erect, maybe your hips are too far fwd. i dunno man! footwork and angles and slipping look good.

 

[Silver tongue samurai]

Medieval Times successor

I wanna go in with 2 shields

Ah the old saying. "The best defence is a good offensive defence''

 

[j123]

Yeah I should really use proper gear when I start sparring again. I used to basicly only do hard sparring, without the skill, and that's why after too much damage to the head I had to lay off entirely. I'll gear up extra with headgear even. Thanks.

Vikings just like to bang

 

[shincheckin]

how stances should look IMO take not that even with straight/erect backs, the weight is still slightly fwd.

how you look "mma" stance

your the guy on the left

and lastly this pic, which is an over exaggeration of what your doing but I am glad i found this picture, because they way you move etc, reminds me of the old school boxing stance, and since your style seems to be primarily boxing focused, it makes sense. maybe its not your back being straight, but your weight being too far back? with the weight this far back, its not hard to off balance/sweep the guy

i think the stance should be somewhere in between "mma and wrestling"

good read on stances and all the differences etc

http://muaythaipros.com/muay-thai-for-mma-differences/

 

[Sano]

all the gear and the chest pad is something me and my old coach used to do. I think it helped me improve alot as I was able to spar with my coach at his level without getting injured. Where as without the pads I wouldnt be able to "hang" with him.

as far as your back goes, i did actually notice it looked different then the last time i saw it, and i can recall just now thinking to myself, hey its not as bad as last time.

its hard without being there in person to even fully know what i am looking at, but it just looks "off" to me. The balance point seems to far back, high up, and erect. Maybe its raising your center of gravity? it just seems like if i got you to take a few stops backwards/retreat, once you stop, your weight is too far back and too high, and if i just pushed you, you would fall back its really hard to tell/see without being there in person but if I had to guess, I would think that the upright back is causing you to have a higher center of gravity, and your weight too far back. i think its impossible to make any changes without actually seeing in person but I was just playing around in front of the mirror, if its not the back to erect, maybe your hips are too far fwd. i dunno man! footwork and angles and slipping look good.

how stances should look IMO take not that even with straight/erect backs, the weight is still slightly fwd.

how you look "mma" stance

your the guy on the left

and lastly this pic, which is an over exaggeration of what your doing but I am glad i found this picture, because they way you move etc, reminds me of the old school boxing stance, and since your style seems to be primarily boxing focused, it makes sense. maybe its not your back being straight, but your weight being too far back? with the weight this far back, its not hard to off balance/sweep the guy

i think the stance should be somewhere in between "mma and wrestling"

good read on stances and all the differences etc

http://muaythaipros.com/muay-thai-for-mma-differences/

Oh I know exactly what you mean. It's a boxing thing yes. I'm also inspired by the old timers and the ones that still do that. It's a pros and cons thing. The reason why I like doing it is because it's a good defensive position. My head is harder to reach as it's further away, and it's easier for me to see shots coming and react. Also it's harder for anyone to land body hooks as well. What I really like about it though is that it's easy to manipulate distance while still being in range to strike. You appear much further away than you really are, and as soon as you shift your weight forward you can hit them back. Or with your head a little forward, you can pull back slightly and not get hit.

I was using it too much before, kinda like Machida you posted who ALWAYS stays with his weight back (the boxers don't do that), but mixing it up with having your weight forward at times, going off the centerline and crouching more I feel makes it more adaptable. Never had any problems with being sweeped or pushed around in KB/MT sparring, usually I'm the one who push people around, but then again I haven't sparred any high level MT fighter with good sweeps. I'd be put on my ass for sure either way.

In my mind a good stance is one that a) suits the person and fits their strengths. Not everyone should have the exact same stance, and b) one that is fluid and can adapt to the ruleset, and opponent. Like if I was fighting a good wrestler I'd lower my center of gravity more, exactly like Rory is doing in the picture with Woodley. There's downsides to that too like them faking the shot and finding your face with the uppercut or knee more easily, but there will always be pros and cons.

Thanks for the reply, I think it comes down to styles a little bit, but I will get what you're saying. At some point soon I'd like to start practicing MT for real and then I might have to change things up. Then I'd really have to pick your brain about how to set everything up!

EDIT: Nice article btw!

 

[Woldog]

Lead overhand is the only weapon you need.

 

[Sano]

Lead overhand is the only weapon you need.

Yeah I was thinking about that after what j123 said. Using the lead overhand slipping forward, or even trying to step with the right hand to southpaw and throw the left as an overhand from that stance would probably help me close the distance and come over the top quickly. I'll try to practice both.

 

[Frode Falch]

Cool. Will watch later. But take off your socks. Or out on some shoes