Bas Rutten "Boxing" instructional. Corkscrew opposition!

Vertical hooks are pretty common. What does he say about vertical straight punches? That's where it gets more unorthodox in boxing. I want to see someone try a vertical rear punch

Vertical hooks are actually shunned by most modern coaches. I don't know but if they hate vertical hooks, they probably don't even want to hear vertical straight punches ever mentioned.
 
Vertical hooks are actually shunned by most modern coaches. I don't know but if they hate vertical hooks, they probably don't even want to hear vertical straight punches ever mentioned.

That's some good common sense thinking.

If you're able to slip a vertical jab in here and there and you can make it work well, I'll bet they wont have any problem with it. But if you're not good at it and can't make it work, then you should stop even trying it until your textbook expertise has proven itself. That's basically how it works at all gyms-- learn the way the coach tells you to do it nice and solid first, and then after you've wowed him with that he will allow you to try less-standard stuff here and there, provided it's not TOO stupid.

It's not that you can't be experimental, it's that you have to learn and demonstrate the tried-and-true way and be solid on that before you should be allowed to draw too much outside the lines. Same thing with painters, etc. or any type of craft
 
That's some good common sense thinking.

If you're able to slip a vertical jab in here and there and make it work, I'll bet they wont have any problem with it. But if you're not good at it and can't make it work, then you should stop even trying it until your textbook expertise has proven itself. That's basically how it works at all gyms-- learn the way the coach tells you to do it nice and solid first, and then after you've wowed him with that he will allow you to try less-standard stuff here and there, provided it's not TOO stupid

I'm just saying. I have been to two boxing trainers in a row that never drill vertical punches of any kind. Probably not a coincidence. Horizontal is default. The last one said vertical hooks make you more exposed to counters, but that doesn't make sense to me.
 
I'm just saying. I have been to two boxing trainers in a row that never drill vertical punches of any kind. Probably not a coincidence. Horizontal is default. The last one said vertical hooks make you more exposed to counters, but that doesn't make sense to me.

I think you've got old school trainers, which is good. I saw that Freddy Roach tutorial on throwing the hook and he taught the vertical hook first which he did personally on the bag, the horizontal hook was then taught by his assistant coach.

The horizontal hook is harder to get your head away from, imo.

Does your coach make you throw the horizontal hook for body punches? Because almost no one teaches that (I have seen it rarely, once or twice, in pro boxing). Either way, just do it your coach's way, can't go wrong while learning.
 
I think you've got old school trainers, which is good. I saw that Freddy Roach tutorial on throwing the hook and he taught the vertical hook first which he did personally on the bag, the horizontal hook was then taught by his assistant coach.

The horizontal hook is harder to get your head away from, imo.

Does your coach make you throw the horizontal hook for body punches? Because almost no one teaches that (I have seen it rarely, once or twice, in pro boxing). Either way, just do it your coach's way, can't go wrong while learning.

I haven't started with the new trainer yet but unless I misunderstood him, he indeed wants horizontal hooks to the body too..

I believe it's the other way around. Vertical hooks are old-school, stemming back from the bare knuckled days, while horizontal hooks is the modern approach.
 
I haven't started with the new trainer yet but unless I misunderstood him, he indeed wants horizontal hooks to the body too..

I believe it's the other way around. Vertical hooks are old-school, stemming back from the bare knuckled days, while horizontal hooks is the modern approach.

From what I've gathered, the horizontal hooks are more of a soviet type thing. Old school Eastern bloc stuff

If you watch pro boxing now (and for the last few decades at least), vertical hooks are the norm. Most fight ending hooks are thrown vertical, as shown by the slow motion replays.



This HL of GGG vs Canelo shows Canelo throwing vertical hooks and GGG throwing horizontal hooks (usually). At 4:01 they both throw hooks at each other and you can see the difference since it's played in slo mo.

There is a gear symbol that lets you choose the speed of the video, so when playing it, it's not a bad idea to put it on a slower speed to see exactly what they're doing
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I personally like vertical hooks for in-close and horizontal for longer distance
 
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From what I've gathered, the horizontal hooks are more of a soviet type thing. Old school Eastern bloc stuff

If you watch pro boxing now (and for the last few decades at least), vertical hooks are the norm. Most fight ending hooks are thrown vertical, as shown by the slow motion replays.



This HL of GGG vs Canelo shows Canelo throwing vertical hooks and GGG throwing horizontal hooks (usually)

There is a gear symbol that lets you choose the speed of the video, so when playing it, it's not a bad idea to put it on a slower speed to see exactly what they're doing
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I personally like vertical hooks for in-close and horizontal for longer distance


Perhaps it's the modern day negligence of body punching. Maybe he meant that body punching leaves you exposed, and that it had nothing to do with the actual hook? We were talking in the middle of training so there was a lot of distracting bangin go around.
 
Perhaps it's the modern day negligence of body punching. Maybe he meant that body punching leaves you exposed, and that it had nothing to do with the actual hook? We were talking in the middle of training so there was a lot of distracting bangin go around.

Yeah it would be a good idea to find out the details and intentions of what your coach meant. Those little details that everyone else kinda just skips over, those are the same things that will give you the edge over most people and when a person studies them and adds them up it makes that person look unstoppable in less time that most people would think
 
Yeah it would be a good idea to find out the details. Those little details that everyone else skips over, those are the same things that will give you the edge over most people

I'm pretty sure he meant that body punching is a dicey proposition due to the unneccesary exposure to counters, and that vertical hooks therefore are irrelevant to drill as default hooks, since they are mostly used while body punching.
 
I'm pretty sure he meant that body punching is a dicey proposition due to the unneccesary exposure to counters, and that vertical hooks therefore are irrelevant to drill as default hooks, since they are mostly used while body punching.

That could be true, but it never hurts to get more details/knowledge about what he meant. There might be even more useful information related to that-- most people don't ask once they think they get the gist of what a coach is saying. Why not find out the good gritty stuff that everyone else passes up? Just make sure you don't annoy him too much.
 
That could be true, but it never hurts to get more details/knowledge about what he meant. There might be even more useful information related to that-- most people don't ask once they think they get the gist of what a coach is saying. Why not find out the good gritty stuff that everyone else passes up? Just make sure you don't annoy him too much.

There's a lot of things boxing coaches preach which the very best violate.. For instance leaning (both in terms of throwing and avoiding punches). Any instructor will tell you that leaning is bad, but you would be hard pressed to find boxers who don't lean. That's because they have learned the fundamentals and are now competent to move freely.

So these discussions with a coach will only reveal what the student is ready to hear. It isn't the final say.
 
There's a lot of things boxing coaches preach which the very best violate.. For instance leaning (both in terms of throwing and avoiding punches). Any instructor will tell you that leaning is bad, but you would be hard pressed to find boxers who don't lean. That's because they have learned the fundamentals and are now competent to move freely.

So these discussions with a coach will only reveal what the student is ready to hear. It isn't the final say.

No, it's not always the final say, but it is best to learn their way when you're learning. That is what you pay them for, or else you should be learning from some other trainer.

As for the lean thing, it's the same word used for different meanings. One is good, one is not.
I tell people not to lean forward but other times I find myself telling them TO lean forward. The word "lean" is not specific enough.

What I mean is, DO NOT lean out of your center of gravity, past your knees. But DO lean forward slightly because it is necessary to balance the bend in your legs with some slight forward tilting (for proper mechanics), but not enough to have your balance disrupted and shifted forwards in front of your knees (imbalanced so they can't react correctly) like a lot of brawlers do.
 
Are the rules which we accept as default nowadays still in effect if we take off the gloves? I mean isn't some of the techniques in out time relying on good hand protection?
 
@spacetime

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Please repost the Bas Rutten Kicking DVD you posted a while back. great stuff in there.
 
"The common standard in boxing gyms nowadays is to turn the hands over for a horizontal fist. They do allow exceptions but generally the horizontal fist is preferred. The horizontal-fisted punch is the default technique in virtually all major boxing gyms. It is the standard belief of today’s boxer.

Go into any boxing gym today and your coach will most likely tell you to turn the hand over. I’ve found this to be more practical and realistic of boxing condition"
It's simple physics really. Rotating the fist keeps it accelerating up until impact, otherwise a straight punch reaches maximum acceleration at just over half way through the motion.
 
Rotating the fist keeps it accelerating up until impact,

Yes. This is also why the right hand cross boxing punch is more powerful than the reverse Karate punch, even though the Karate punch tends to be delivered faster. The motion in the boxing punch has a longer travelling path and the speed goes up to the very end. Acceleration=power.
 
From what I've gathered, the horizontal hooks are more of a soviet type thing. Old school Eastern bloc stuff

If you watch pro boxing now (and for the last few decades at least), vertical hooks are the norm. Most fight ending hooks are thrown vertical, as shown by the slow motion replays.



This HL of GGG vs Canelo shows Canelo throwing vertical hooks and GGG throwing horizontal hooks (usually). At 4:01 they both throw hooks at each other and you can see the difference since it's played in slo mo.

There is a gear symbol that lets you choose the speed of the video, so when playing it, it's not a bad idea to put it on a slower speed to see exactly what they're doing
---

I personally like vertical hooks for in-close and horizontal for longer distance

The amount you rotate your fist is directly related to the range your hooking from. Vertical hooks in close and more rotation at range. That seems to be the most functional and natural way to throw the hook.
 
The amount you rotate your fist is directly related to the range your hooking from. Vertical hooks in close and more rotation at range. That seems to be the most functional and natural way to throw the hook.

That's how I do it, too. It just tends to fit right that way.

If a pro preferred to do all vertical or all horizontal, they wouldn't be wrong as long as they make it work for them.
 
That's how I do it, too. It just tends to fit right that way.

If a pro preferred to do all vertical or all horizontal, they wouldn't be wrong as long as they make it work for them.
I think it's really about what works for the individual. Foreman was an advocate of not turning the jab over occasionally to sneak it through the guard.
 
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