Belt Systems need to go away

At my school it's understood that "hobbyists" get promoted faster. Basically backpat belts. The competitors are promoted when they are basically at the stage of beating most other competitors at their belt. I do not love this as I can see the unathletic hobbyists on some level realize they do not deserve their rank.
Maybe. I see your point.

At the same time as a brown belt hobbyist myself I have no qualms about knowing there are lots of better grapplers than me at brown and lots when I get to black. I've had Atos purple belts roll me into a ball. I'm fine with that. I'm almost 35 with a full time job and family to take care of. I can't train every day like those kids can.

I like the idea of competitors being promoted slower if that's cool with them and their instructors. I think that makes sense.

The comp world and the hobbyist world are not even close and in many ways are continuing to have a larger gulf between them. Black belt is a highly personal thing. I would hope that most hobbyists by the time they reach black belt would be able to frame the context of their own training and life circumstances to realize that it's a big achievement, and at the same time knowing that there is a universe full of full time competitors that would wreck them.

edit - I also think the word hobbyist is thrown around too casually. I do it myself. I see it used to describe anyone that isn't a pro or heavy on the comp circuit. But if someone has gotten to at least brown belt (or maybe even a few years at purple) I think they've made the art a big enough part of their life where it's more than just a "hobby." It may be splitting hairs but I may start saying hobbyist, enthusiast, and full-time competitor.
 
Everyone talks about higher level practitioners having an ego caused by the belt system. That can be the case but I'd guess it's the ego of lower belts that makes them hate the belt system too. So is the problem the belt system or is it the inherent ego of human beings that is the real problem? I like to think the ego gets beat out of you in your years of training, but let's face it, how many of us would be cool legit tapping to a white belt after we get to purple?

I think higher level practitioners should be respected, but not just for the time they put into getting their rank but for the time they put into their team. I have no problem with an 50+ year old who has years of knowledge teaching me and wearing a higher rank even if I could beat them in a roll or a fight.

If you truly don't care about the belt system, then don't let it bother you. Let them stay in their delusion. If you look closer at it and are honest, it bothers you that the old guy thinks he can beat you. Again, ego driven on both sides.

Maybe I'm getting off topic and the real question is : Would BJJ be better without the belt system? I'd venture to say we would still have the same problems because we are all flawed when it comes down to it.
 
Lmfao... what a dork.
U r deff one of those blow hards that'll scamper away from the young turks after you get your promotion, LOL!

Any good FC guy with half decent TDD could clean your clock....RAGE!
 
Being allowed and forced to compete up a belt once you get enough wins would be an improvement.


I can certainly understand that, but really tournaments below black belt don't really prove anything. I'm certain to run into some sandbagging browns when I compete, but that's life.

I know many tournment officials keep track of wins though and require a person to move up after winning a division or they can't compete there.
 
If I have to explain to you the ridiculousness of this statement then I don't know what else to say to you.

Unless you have tremendous takedown defense to go with your striking, you basically have a small chance unless you are also much larger.

Striking is great, but if the UFC has taught us anything, being overly reliant on striking is a mistake (as is being overly reliant on grappling alone).

The strikers that have done well, other than the couple of perfectly calculated punch or kick knockouts, HAD to have good takedown awareness and defense. If you have that, then sure I think you'd have a very good chance against a BJJ black belt with no striking...probably even a definitive chance.
 
Thank you for being the first to create a real response unlike the other two genius' in the thread so far. It has been bugging me for a few weeks how this black belt has been carrying himself and I did have to speak to the head instructor about it. Some more bullshit happened last night in training. I always felt this way about the belts, but an arrogant black belt has just reminded me of why I feel this way about the belts.

And this seems odd to me, like blaming guns for the actions of the asshole using the gun.

The belt doesn't make someone an asshole. They are an asshole AND they just happen to have a black belt. I guarantee they were an asshole before.
 
I know many tournment officials keep track of wins though and require a person to move up after winning a division or they can't compete there.
A lot of tournaments generally prohibit you from fighting up a belt at least where I am. The ibjff even has retarded time in belt requirements.
 
I normally am not really on board with a belt system for other reasons, but in your situation, he most likely meant in a grappling context
 
Actually. I met real cool BB and really douchebag BB as well.

We need stripes and belts in bjj as they are reasons why people train for so long.
 
Would BJJ be better without the belt system?

From a "purist" standpoint, I think the belts should be done away with. That way the only people who remain are the people who really love it. In practice, it's probably a bad idea.

My first gym was dirty and a total shark tank, a truly terrible place to foster beginners. You grow to kind of love it though. It feels more hardcore. That place shut down.

I've met two people who switched to gi specifically to be ranked up. The belts are a huge part of what motivates normal people to train. I would be lying if getting black belt didn't used to be a significant reason for my own training. In the day to day class, lack of belts discourages all the people for whom the experience is not enough. Competition wise, it becomes like wrestling or judo where everyone is just thrown into age and weight categories - people have to actually have matches with the best guys. Both destroy egos.

Speaking of destroyed egos I rolled with a no stripe white belt last week who was giving me a hell of a time. Was strangely very adept at getting out of armbars. I have the experience to realize now that those people are almost always wrestlers, which he was. These wrestlers often have many years of experience and are super strong. Still hurt my ego though.

I also had another wrestler a few weeks ago almost legitimately get a guillotine on me. The tables turned afterwards but it was shocking to say the least.
 
Belts are for customer retention.

Doing no gi my whole career it's pretty humbling walking into a gi gym with my white belt until the higher belts roll with me and see where my skills really are.

I see belts as necessary but I can see why some prefer no belts.
 
In my eyes, is not about time, it’s about mat time, if the guy is training 2 times a day 6 days a week, he could be very well.at black belt level after 4 years of training
Not that I have a lot of experience but, is twice a day, 6 days aweek realistic? That seams like an awful lot to ask of a human body.
 
I hate the resentment and level of butthurt belts cause. I'm a big guy (bodybuilder type) with a wrestling back ground and I have always done very well against higher belts. Not a big deal at all to me. I don't even care and would never tell anyone how I did against higher belts. But man, it can make black belts hate me. I see the resentment in their eyes. It makes me sad to an extent because I dont want it to be that way. I just try to be polite and likeable and sociable with gym people. But they do for sure hold onto that feeling and kind of hold it against me. To combat it competition wise I enter absolute divisions just to see how I do. In all honesty, high level competition at belt levels just mean they are sandbagging. I want to see who is the best there. I'm a purple btw
 
It’s like a degree from a university for me. It doesn’t necessarily mean that I will perform the best at a given career. It does mean that I have experience. I have endured a certain level of pain and sacrifice.
When I walk into a new academy to train with my belt; the belt given to me by my instructor, other people will know what it means.
 
Not that I have a lot of experience but, is twice a day, 6 days aweek realistic? That seams like an awful lot to ask of a human body.

When you are 14-20, your body can take an lots more
 
Not that I have a lot of experience but, is twice a day, 6 days aweek realistic? That seams like an awful lot to ask of a human body.
Doesn't seem that much. For beginners classes are super hard on them because they fight for their lives and aren't used to BJJ at all. But if you are an more advanced practitioner you can do a fuckton of normal hobbist classes. Which isn't obviously optimal why pros do like one or two serious training sessions per day rather then 5 hobbyist ones.
 
It makes sense, but there’s no money in that model, and if there’s no money for the organizers of tournaments there’s no money for competitors

5 years ago I would have agreed with you. Now I think the real money and retention is in running a gym/yoga session/crossfit alongside the dojo and working hard on promoting a school culture and esthetic. Failing that, yeah belts still work as a carrot.
 
Human beings on some level have a need to fit each other into boxes. I'd be curious to see what it would look like. I think it could be cool. I'd love to visit a school after a 5-10 year experiment of having no belts.

Sambo says hi
 
edit - I also think the word hobbyist is thrown around too casually. I do it myself. I see it used to describe anyone that isn't a pro or heavy on the comp circuit. But if someone has gotten to at least brown belt (or maybe even a few years at purple) I think they've made the art a big enough part of their life where it's more than just a "hobby." It may be splitting hairs but I may start saying hobbyist, enthusiast, and full-time competitor.

Thank you for this. I've seen "hobbyist" or "recreational player" used almost as a slur at times. If you're spending 5-15hrs a week on it, that's less of a hobby and more of an avocation
 
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