Best Judo throws to KO or wind the oppponent (why Judo still beats BJJ and most other styles)

[TheMaster]

One of the most overlooked aspects of Judo is that unlike other grappling arts the majority of its throws are designed for you to remain standing, where you can choose to go to the ground or just put the boot in.
The ippon rule win simulates this. The soft mats are there for safety but hide the true devastating and fight ending potential of these throws. Take a high level pure Judo blackbelt or good wrestler vs a pure BJJ blackbelt and let them spar on a wooden floor - I know who I'm betting on.

With that said, what are opinions on the best Judo throws/sweeps or wrestling takedowns/supplex that would have the most potential to KO or badly wind the opponent on a harder surface (hard mats or no mats), and added technical points on driving the opponent so hard into the ground the fight is over there.

 

[nefti]

Wtf???

 

[Hotora86]

 

[lechien]

Osoto Hari.

Kimura used to drill 1000 osoto gari against a tree every morning.

He was ko sparring partners on a daily basis that they asked him to stop using this throw during sparring.

 

[TheMaster]

Osoto Hari.

Kimura used to drill 1000 osoto gari against a tree every morning.

He was ko sparring partners on a daily basis that they asked him to stop using this throw during sparring.

Good choice. Osoto Gari is brutal for sure.






Lol, my old Sensei once told us a story about Osoto Gari. Something like this:
"In the days of the Samurai, osoto gari would be done so the front hand palms the opponents nose or jaw, and then the back of his skull is cracked when he lands on the floor".

Definately good for the instant KO if done right.

 

[Stoic1]

A good harai ogoshi when you land on them really has that OUCH factor. I've seen more broken and separated ribs by this throw than any others. But that observation is highly subjective.

 

[TheMaster]

A good harai ogoshi when you land on them really has that OUCH factor. I've seen more broken and separated ribs by this throw than any others. But that observation is highly subjective.

Agree on Harai

What you mentiined about the damage with landing can be very true


But without landing can be worse. Alot of Judo throws are much worse if the opponent lands awkwardly.
Here is the KTFO/broken neck/fatality version of Harai


I note the thrower came down on his own head with that one also but I suppose he wasnt trying to break his fall much with his free left arm so you can afford to take more risks in competition, but more control is usually advisable.

 

[judoka loca]

Any throw can have that effect. That is their main purpose. I knocked a guy out with a very explosive ura nage once though, and I have seen many people with the air knocked out of them from an osoto, harai, uchi mata, seoi nage or tai otoshi. The lateral drop, if you arch into it, the salto (double overhook arch), seatbelt toss and kata guruma are also very hard hitting throws.

The effect of throws can be very easily changed by how you do it. As TheMaster said, performing osoto-gari with a palm on the chin instead of the lapel will result in their head hitting the ground causing a knockout. It would be ridiculously easy to get the same effect of the head hitting the ground, especially against an untrained opponent, with a seoi nage, kata guruma, or ouchi gari. Now the only reason you'd want to do this would have to be in a life-or-death situation, as this, of course, would be quite fatal.

 

[Mike K.O]

As a former Judoka, I confirm. The throws hurt. A lot. But they can also end the fight in seconds. You can go from Harai Goshi to arm bar if you're fast enought.

 

[ArtemV]

Uchi-mata is a good option imo. Even with a good breakfall, uchi-mata can be taxing on your back and will wind you.

 

[killakoy]

While all throws have impact ability which increase in severity with increased momentum, throws that have less of an arch are particularly devastating and hard to take. For example, yama-arashi isn't like a harai goshi or a seoi-toshi where you roll into it and throw with a leading arch. With yama-arashi, you are moving a person's momentum up and then straight down with a lot of force.

For the same reason, I think osoto guruma is way more devastating than osoto gari. Even with a judoka who practice a lot of ukemi, this is a hard throw to take.

 

[mattemate]

Osoto Hari.

Kimura used to drill 1000 osoto gari against a tree every morning.

He was ko sparring partners on a daily basis that they asked him to stop using this throw during sparring.

Good choice. Osoto Gari is brutal for sure.

View attachment 459797
View attachment 459799



Lol, my old Sensei once told us a story about Osoto Gari. Something like this:
"In the days of the Samurai, osoto gari would be done so the front hand palms the opponents nose or jaw, and then the back of his skull is cracked when he lands on the floor".

Definately good for the instant KO if done right.

Burning a candle for @Einarr

 

[TheGZA]

Guy tried to snatch my gym bag as I was getting off a train. I snapped his elbow with a straight armlock to the ground (Waki Gatame).

Knocked some junkie out with Osoto Gari who was hassling me for money.

Broke an Aikido guys ribs with Harai Makikomi onto the hardwood floor of a sports hall because he was talking shit about Judo.

That's it. A friend of mine did Osoto a drunk dude onto his head once. That was quite funny.

 

[chubbman]

Good choice. Osoto Gari is brutal for sure.

View attachment 459797
View attachment 459799



Lol, my old Sensei once told us a story about Osoto Gari. Something like this:
"In the days of the Samurai, osoto gari would be done so the front hand palms the opponents nose or jaw, and then the back of his skull is cracked when he lands on the floor".

Definately good for the instant KO if done right.

Is that what Jones used on Hammill? it dislocated his shoulder if i recall correctly.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Osoto Hari.

Kimura used to drill 1000 osoto gari against a tree every morning.

He was ko sparring partners on a daily basis that they asked him to stop using this throw during sparring.

The story I heard was that Kimura was asked to not use Osoto Gari before one tournament, because it was becoming boring for the spectators. Everyone knew Kimura would Ippon his opponent with that throw. Kimura agreed...and won every fight by Ippon and the tournament without using Osoto Gari

 

[RJ Green]

judo as a sport = throwing people so their back hits the ground first
judo as self defense = throwing people so their head hits the ground first

 

[Bluesbreaker]

For me, an outside trip like tani otoshi or ko soto gari. If you have a grip on the belt or middle of the back, you can whip the shit out of them, so the back of their head explodes on the floor.

Or so I hear.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Osoto Hari.

Kimura used to drill 1000 osoto gari against a tree every morning.

He was ko sparring partners on a daily basis that they asked him to stop using this throw during sparring.

Do you mean gari? I never heard osoto hari. But Osoto Gari is also easy to see coming, and easy to counter if you use it as the attack. It is best as a counter

 

[Patrick Jane]

Osoto Gari. Kimura used to knock people out all the time with it during Randori.

 

[lechien]

Do you mean gari? I never heard osoto hari. But Osoto Gari is also easy to see coming, and easy to counter if you use it as the attack. It is best as a counter

Yeah. I meant gari.
Kimura was so good at it that his training partners had to beg him to stop using it because they were getting concused .
I also agree that it is not a throw for beginners to attempt during competition because if they have not mastered the timing, it can be easily countered.

However .I believe it is one of the most damaging judo throw in the repertoire.

There is another one which I forgot the name .but Ronda demonstrated on Renato laranja and it was really funny.

It is like a ipon seo nage but she controlled both sleeves which meant Renato did not have the usual free arm to breakfall .Hence, it looked very painful.

Also I was showed a cross grip to a leg grab and that really hurt as you land on the back of the head. It is now banned in judo because you are not allowed to grab the leg but we can still use it in bjj.
It was demonstrated by an older 4 Dan french french judoka.

Also I was taught a bicep slicer from side control by kosen judo 8th Dan. I explained to him that such move is only brown belt and above in ibjj rules .he just shook his head and replied that it is called a good pin in judo.
o