Billy Joe Saunders Denied a License, Can’t Fight Andrade

One typo replacing an 'n' with an 'm' doesn't make any difference to what I'm saying because you know my numbers are right as I've been referring to Clenelos test levels as 0.6ng/ml since the beginning. And no you are wrong 11mg isn't micrograms, 11 ug is micrograms. You don't have to know where the start is, the rate of decay is a constant. From 0.6ng/ml in 36 hours (half-life of Clenbuterol) there will be 0.3ng/ml.
You can extrapolate back but because you don't know the original dose you won't know where the start was but you know at the time of testing Clenelo had 0.6ng/ml which corresponds to a minimum of at least 40 ug daily having been ingested over a period of 4 days. The information you supplied about levels of contamination in meat really sinks your argument because you are saying that a 100g piece contains only 230ng of Clenbuterol. Clenelo would have needed to eat 17.4kg of that contaminated meat to reach the blood levels he was tested at (40,000 ng / 230 ng per 100g steak). I don't think eating 17.4kg of steak is humanly possible unless he ate it over several days but that would not give the high levels he was tested at. So he'd have to eat it in one sitting. Not possible.

11,000 ng or 11 ''ug'' or 11 mcg... you get the point.

You still don't get it. Anti Doping agencies PROMOTE ''24/7''

Let me understand you correctly: Are you basing your opinions from the time of 1 tablet consumption of 40 micrograms to the 4th day when VADA came again, Feb 22th? What is this ''4 days'' you're referring to? Feb. 18th to Feb. 22nd?

Assuming you're strictly talking about Day 1 sample, Feb. 18th of .6ng or 600 picograms or .0006 micrograms hence (trace amounts) then even, my point is, you're basing a test sample with the commercial pill setting of 20, 40, or 80. That doesn't make any sense since VADA can't prove depletion from 1 pill.... and again, if Canelo was on regimen of Clenbuterol for weeks, his depletion rate of tapering (since he would have a high concentration amount), you wouldn't know when it was the last time he ''Took'' the last pill. Again add 20 or 40 or 80 mcg tables x twice a day for 2weeks or more, that's an insane saturation to then deplete to a trace amount.
 
So he'd have to eat it in one sitting. Not possible.

What is it that you don't understand? Again, USADA has exonerated many fighters having found Clen and meat contamination. Francisco Vargas who's SNAC with Conte, had 1.2ng of Clenbuterol who was exonerated by VADA's own CEO Margaret Goodman. VADA contracted SMRTL, Head Director Eichner who tested Canelo said ''consistent with contaminated meat.''

Why do you think the whole boxing community was asking for Canelo to provide ''receipts'' and the restaurant he ate at? How big are NY size steaks? In ''grams'' yes? nothing new, steaks come in various portion sizes. Its unfortunate that a lof of Canelo haters don't comprehension metric systems. Below shows a 100 gram steak that can vary in having 10 to 230 nanograms depending on how much the bovine were dosed. Any way you put it, retrace .6ng of Clen… do a halflife calculation going backwards! Canelo could've eaten meat anytime that month since he was travelling everywhere in Mexico with Carlos Slim and Bill Gates.

So a 100g piece of steak could contain between 0.01 and 0.23 micrograms, that is between 10 and 230 nanograms, of clenbuterol. Contamination levels may of course differ in European meat.

tonijn-steak-en-100-gr.jpg
 
11,000 ng or 11 ''ug'' or 11 mcg... you get the point.

You still don't get it. Anti Doping agencies PROMOTE ''24/7''

Let me understand you correctly: Are you basing your opinions from the time of 1 tablet consumption of 40 micrograms to the 4th day when VADA came again, Feb 22th? What is this ''4 days'' you're referring to? Feb. 18th to Feb. 22nd?

Assuming you're strictly talking about Day 1 sample, Feb. 18th of .6ng or 600 picograms or .0006 micrograms hence (trace amounts) then even, my point is, you're basing a test sample with the commercial pill setting of 20, 40, or 80. That doesn't make any sense since VADA can't prove depletion from 1 pill.... and again, if Canelo was on regimen of Clenbuterol for weeks, his depletion rate of tapering (since he would have a high concentration amount), you wouldn't know when it was the last time he ''Took'' the last pill. Again add 20 or 40 or 80 mcg tables x twice a day for 2weeks or more, that's an insane saturation to then deplete to a trace amount.

I am basing my opinions on the research paper that I posted which you clearly don't understand. I'll keep it simple for you. They gave the subject 40ug a day for four days where they found that the Clenbuterol levels in the plasma topped out at a stable level of 0.6ng/ml. So for Canelo to have a blood level which was also 0.6ng/ml he could well have been dosing in a similar fashion. Certainly based on the levels in the contaminated meat you provided it seems extremely unlikely that he could have got that level in his blood just by eating contaminated meat. And I similarly think the Vargas decision was bullshit too.
 
I am basing my opinions on the research paper that I posted which you clearly don't understand. I'll keep it simple for you. They gave the subject 40ug a day for four days where they found that the Clenbuterol levels in the plasma topped out at a stable level of 0.6ng/ml. So for Canelo to have a blood level which was also 0.6ng/ml he could well have been dosing in a similar fashion. Certainly based on the levels in the contaminated meat you provided it seems extremely unlikely that he could have got that level in his blood just by eating contaminated meat. And I similarly think the Vargas decision was bullshit too.

Again, that research paper you posted was for Clenbuterol in ashtma patients. You seem to forget that Clenbuterol to begin with is an asthma medication, and was not initially created for performance enhancement in sports. Now, go to any body building website and any Clen user will tell you that a regimen for actual results are 2 - 4 weeks, for optimal effects with 20, 40, 80 microgram doses twice a day progressing to higher doses and in the last weeks doses declining in strength. That's the typical form for Clen use to get any effects. The reason why guys cap small starting out is because Clen has for the most part side effects with focus, palpitations, ''jitters..'' Canelo is a gym rat... that's not the ideal PED to use for a guy who already suffers from ''stamina issues'' Again, in the Clen world, enthusiasts use it to cut weight and get ripped for photo posing at best....It's not like Canelo be coming in ripped like Spence, Charlo, or BJS with almost no body fat. Canelo is usually consistent with a decent amount of body fat.

Almost all Mexican boxers including its citizens have trace amounts of Clen. Mexico has a rampant industry where farmers continue to use Clenbuterol. Clenbuterol from bovine is already synthesized once Humans ingest it, that's why the average Mexican doesn't suffer from it. If you eat the liver it has even more concentrations of it.

As in out original conversation pages ago, most boxing fans already forgot about Canelo, and as the years progress the information will get better. The real question is, the interesting drama from BJS here forward in UK sports whenever he's asked or brings it up. Eddie Hearn just recently said that UKAD needs revision! Basically meaning that Matchroom might change the game in the UK, and all other promoters will be under Hearn with being spooked about domestic testing. BJS was played. Naive boxer thinking that because its always been waived in the UK that it would've been ok stateside...Of course Ingle read the list of prohibited substances...
 
Wow I wonder what else will fall in canelos favor. Let me guess, a bus runs over Charlos, Hurd, GGG and they can’t fight for years while canelo fights Lemiux 5 times in a row
 
Again, that research paper you posted was for Clenbuterol in ashtma patients. You seem to forget that Clenbuterol to begin with is an asthma medication, and was not initially created for performance enhancement in sports. Now, go to any body building website and any Clen user will tell you that a regimen for actual results are 2 - 4 weeks, for optimal effects with 20, 40, 80 microgram doses twice a day progressing to higher doses and in the last weeks doses declining in strength. That's the typical form for Clen use to get any effects. The reason why guys cap small starting out is because Clen has for the most part side effects with focus, palpitations, ''jitters..'' Canelo is a gym rat... that's not the ideal PED to use for a guy who already suffers from ''stamina issues'' Again, in the Clen world, enthusiasts use it to cut weight and get ripped for photo posing at best....It's not like Canelo be coming in ripped like Spence, Charlo, or BJS with almost no body fat. Canelo is usually consistent with a decent amount of body fat.

Almost all Mexican boxers including its citizens have trace amounts of Clen. Mexico has a rampant industry where farmers continue to use Clenbuterol. Clenbuterol from bovine is already synthesized once Humans ingest it, that's why the average Mexican doesn't suffer from it. If you eat the liver it has even more concentrations of it.

As in out original conversation pages ago, most boxing fans already forgot about Canelo, and as the years progress the information will get better. The real question is, the interesting drama from BJS here forward in UK sports whenever he's asked or brings it up. Eddie Hearn just recently said that UKAD needs revision! Basically meaning that Matchroom might change the game in the UK, and all other promoters will be under Hearn with being spooked about domestic testing. BJS was played. Naive boxer thinking that because its always been waived in the UK that it would've been ok stateside...Of course Ingle read the list of prohibited substances...

If Clenelo got tested part way or at the start of a cycle then he would be at 40ug or he could have been at the end of a pyramid and be coming down again. As soon as he was tested the first time he of course would drop any Clenbuterol to get it down for the inevitable second test. And Mexico might well have big problems with Clenbuterol in their beef but that amounts are too small to give the test levels that Clenelo produced. If you don't think Clenelo was using Clenbuterol that's fine but that doesn't explain the abnormally high test results he produced. To me the guy was using and he's a cheat.

If Eddie Hearn gets the testing program changed for UKAD I'd have no problem getting behind it. I do think it's a bit stupid to have such an obvious loophole in the testing regimen.
 
If Clenelo got tested part way or at the start of a cycle then he would be at 40ug or he could have been at the end of a pyramid and be coming down again. As soon as he was tested the first time he of course would drop any Clenbuterol to get it down for the inevitable second test. And Mexico might well have big problems with Clenbuterol in their beef but that amounts are too small to give the test levels that Clenelo produced. If you don't think Clenelo was using Clenbuterol that's fine but that doesn't explain the abnormally high test results he produced. To me the guy was using and he's a cheat.

If Eddie Hearn gets the testing program changed for UKAD I'd have no problem getting behind it. I do think it's a bit stupid to have such an obvious loophole in the testing regimen.

the amounts are small says Aries vs SMRTL Head Director... yeah ok.. cute theories man. Dont forget to wear your BJS tshirt on Canelo vs Fielding fight night! Mexico got chop season on the UK!
 
the amounts are small says Aries vs SMRTL Head Director... yeah ok.. cute theories man. Dont forget to wear your BJS tshirt on Canelo vs Fielding fight night! Mexico got chop season on the UK!
What amounts are small? The amount of Clenbuterol in mexican beef? I must remind you that you were the one who posted that article with the listed amount of Clenbuterol in Mexican beef. As I calculated earlier Clenelo would need to eat 17 kilos of the most contaminated beef he could get his hands on to give test results as high as he did. Clearly implausible.

Cute theories? You're the one who makes up conspiracy theories without any evidence, I provided a research paper that clearly exposes Clenelo as a drug cheat and you helped me show that his meat excuse is complete bullshit. Thanks for that.
 
What amounts are small? The amount of Clenbuterol in mexican beef? I must remind you that you were the one who posted that article with the listed amount of Clenbuterol in Mexican beef. As I calculated earlier Clenelo would need to eat 17 kilos of the most contaminated beef he could get his hands on to give test results as high as he did. Clearly implausible.

Cute theories? You're the one who makes up conspiracy theories without any evidence, I provided a research paper that clearly exposes Clenelo as a drug cheat and you helped me show that his meat excuse is complete bullshit. Thanks for that.
trolls aren't interested in a meaningful debate. their goal is to provoke a reaction, who the fuck knows why. my personal theory is that their parents weren't present enough, so they crave attention and look for it online.

my point is, the ignore function is a far stronger weapon against a troll than trying to use logic and reason.
 
trolls aren't interested in a meaningful debate. their goal is to provoke a reaction, who the fuck knows why. my personal theory is that their parents weren't present enough, so they crave attention and look for it online.

my point is, the ignore function is a far stronger weapon against a troll than trying to use logic and reason.

You're probably right. Engaging trolls can be pointless, but I don't focus on getting the other person to see my point of view or understand the validity of my argument. I just post my opinion and then if anyone else can be bothered to read it at least they can see what I'm getting at and decide whether they agree or not. My posts often aren't for the sake of argument but as a means of discussion where hopefully the truth can be brought to the fore regardless of who posts the stronger case.
 
You're probably right. Engaging trolls can be pointless, but I don't focus on getting the other person to see my point of view or understand the validity of my argument. I just post my opinion and then if anyone else can be bothered to read it at least they can see what I'm getting at and decide whether they agree or not. My posts often aren't for the sake of argument but as a means of discussion where hopefully the truth can be brought to the fore regardless of who posts the stronger case.

it's a learning experience for everyone. I like that you put in the effort for your arguments, but circumstancial evidence supersedes theory. tbh, I like this thread because of the thread title, keeps it alive while we contextualize PEDS in Sport. As you can see, nobody talking about BJS.... in the upcoming months, see how much noise people talk about Canelo's contaminated meat. You see back in the day before advanced drug testing there were bigger frequencies of post fight urine tests turning hot.... and that was without blood samples nor advanced testing...
 
You're probably right. Engaging trolls can be pointless, but I don't focus on getting the other person to see my point of view or understand the validity of my argument. I just post my opinion and then if anyone else can be bothered to read it at least they can see what I'm getting at and decide whether they agree or not. My posts often aren't for the sake of argument but as a means of discussion where hopefully the truth can be brought to the fore regardless of who posts the stronger case.

Here's a good snip from Booth. Kugan trying hard to justify BJS since they're mates and MTK Global sponsors iFL TV.... but Booth keeps it real just like Hearn that UKAD needs revision. btw doesn't Booth look like an Arab Australian hybrid Robert Downey Jr?

 
Back
Top