Billy Mitchell under fire - UPDATE: Denies all allegations, says info is coming to clear his name

armbarforhire said:
There are reports some of it was or there were things that were edited/cut to favor their storyline (both practices are very common in Docs, pumping Iron comes to mind).



Second how much credibility can they have if they ignored the guy that beat Mitchell scores first and make a whole movie about Wiebe chasing that score???
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Documentaries are, by nature, manipulative, if only because the documentarian is having to take a big story and compress it into a couple of hours. The footage must literally be manipulated to tell a condensed version of the story.

I guess the qustion here is, "When has manipulation gone too far?" The thing about Pumping Iron is that they literally just made shit up. Entire storylines were crafted by the producers to make it more interesting. I'm not sure the KoK guys went that far, though I do understand that some of what we see on screen was not exactly as it appears.

I know they wanted to play up the rivalry between Wiebe and Mitchell, but they should've at least acknowledged Tim Sczerby.
 
Neither Billy or Steve have the record for DK anymore. Some doctor is the current record holder

The doc is still a cool movie just in a bubble
 
He was signing autographs at a retro video game convention outside of LA a few weeks ago. I listened to him desperately hit on some girl for about a minute. If I wasnt laughing so hard, I would have vomited all over his awful white suit.
 
shadow_priest_x said:
Documentaries are, by nature, manipulative, if only because the documentarian is having to take a big story and compress it into a couple of hours. The footage must literally be manipulated to tell a condensed version of the story.

I guess the qustion here is, "When has manipulation gone too far?" The thing about Pumping Iron is that they literally just made shit up. Entire storylines were crafted by the producers to make it more interesting. I'm not sure the KoK guys went that far, though I do understand that some of what we see on screen was not exactly as it appears.

I know they wanted to play up the rivalry between Wiebe and Mitchell, but they should've at least acknowledged Tim Sczerby.
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Its not just condensing the story, but making it fit a story arc you are trying to tell by omiting facts, editing scenes or just making stuff.

Sczerby record was actually verified, yet in the KoK they play all the twin galaxy crowd as the evil empire that tries to protect Mitchel record...............except there is that other guy, that isnt a member of the original 80s crowd (chasing ghosts), that broke Mitchell record and the record was verified by twingalaxy, but I guess that completly kills the movies narrative .


They take all this time talking about poor Weibe not getting recognition , when in fact is the filmakers the ones that actually did that to the old record holder.

If the filmakers actually had darker footage of Mitchell you bet they would have used it and add scary music to it.

Robert Mruczek gives some further insights on KOK

 
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https://movies.stackexchange.com/qu...ce-confirms-scoring-battles-of-king-of-kong-a

Here is a link with interviews with the director and BM were both of them talk their side of the story.

But this question caught my mind, apparently the extra footage in teh DVD actually portraits BM as a nicer guy that than the film, I think is pretty safe to say there is no extra material that makes him look worse than the film did.

AVC: Did the film do a good job humanizing him? The extra footage on the DVD makes him out to be a nicer guy than the actual film.

EC: Here's what I'd ask you to do, and it's kind of a ridiculous ask: Go back and watch the film again, because for whatever reason, because of what happens at [arcade] Funspot and then what transpires at Guinness, people kind of forget everything that was said at the beginning of the film about Billy. We spend the first 20 minutes of the film talking about how great Billy is, that he's got a great business, that he's used gaming to influence the rest of his life, to seek perfection with his family, with his business. That he bought and delivered a Q-Bert machine to [an elderly gamer] and sent her to Funspot. All of that stuff is covered in the film. It's almost like those things are forgotten as the story unfolds.

 
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armbarforhire said:
https://movies.stackexchange.com/qu...ce-confirms-scoring-battles-of-king-of-kong-a

Here is a link with interviews with the director and BM were both of them talk their side of the story.

But this question caught my mind, apparently the extra footage in teh DVD actually portraits BM as a nicer guy that than the film, I think is pretty safe to say there is no extra material that makes him look worse than the film did.

AVC: Did the film do a good job humanizing him? The extra footage on the DVD makes him out to be a nicer guy than the actual film.

EC: Here's what I'd ask you to do, and it's kind of a ridiculous ask: Go back and watch the film again, because for whatever reason, because of what happens at [arcade] Funspot and then what transpires at Guinness, people kind of forget everything that was said at the beginning of the film about Billy. We spend the first 20 minutes of the film talking about how great Billy is, that he's got a great business, that he's used gaming to influence the rest of his life, to seek perfection with his family, with his business. That he bought and delivered a Q-Bert machine to [an elderly gamer] and sent her to Funspot. All of that stuff is covered in the film. It's almost like those things are forgotten as the story unfolds.
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Are you sure you provided the right link? It just takes me to a page with some guy weirdly questioning if Billy Mitchell is even a real person.

i'm not seeing anything about an interview with the filmmakers.
 
armbarforhire said:
https://movies.stackexchange.com/qu...ce-confirms-scoring-battles-of-king-of-kong-a

Here is a link with interviews with the director and BM were both of them talk their side of the story.

But this question caught my mind, apparently the extra footage in teh DVD actually portraits BM as a nicer guy that than the film, I think is pretty safe to say there is no extra material that makes him look worse than the film did.

AVC: Did the film do a good job humanizing him? The extra footage on the DVD makes him out to be a nicer guy than the actual film.

EC: Here's what I'd ask you to do, and it's kind of a ridiculous ask: Go back and watch the film again, because for whatever reason, because of what happens at [arcade] Funspot and then what transpires at Guinness, people kind of forget everything that was said at the beginning of the film about Billy. We spend the first 20 minutes of the film talking about how great Billy is, that he's got a great business, that he's used gaming to influence the rest of his life, to seek perfection with his family, with his business. That he bought and delivered a Q-Bert machine to [an elderly gamer] and sent her to Funspot. All of that stuff is covered in the film. It's almost like those things are forgotten as the story unfolds.
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One of the other points of contention they omitted was the fact when Wiebe was chasing the score, Mitchell wasn't currently playing DK, was out of practice, wasn't even the record holder, and wouldn't have been able to compete properly. They made him look like an asshole when Wiebe was playing live, but in reality he'd already told them he wasn't able to play due to lack of practice. That conveniently wasn't mentioned in the film.
 
I think people get the idea that documentaries are like journalism. Documentaries are a story that is discovered during the editing process. Going through hundreds if not thousands of hours of footage and interview after interview. The narrative that emerges is for the effect of the story, not for historical accuracy. You don't need White Dreadlocks to tell you that.
 
Secret Agent said:
I think people get the idea that documentaries are like journalism. Documentaries are a story that is discovered during the editing process. Going through hundreds if not thousands of hours of footage and interview after interview. The narrative that emerges is for the effect of the story, not for historical accuracy. You don't need White Dreadlocks to tell you that.
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This really depends on the documentary. "Documentary" is a pretty broad category of films.

Look at something like PBS's Frontline series. Those are documentaries but they are also certainly journalistic works.

Regarding something like KoK, you could argue it's not a piece of journalism, but I still think the creators have a responsibility to tell an honest story. After all, look at how so-called reality TV is derided for being fabricated. When someone watches a documentary they want to be confident that the filmmaker is telling a story that is accurate to the facts.
 
In the past month, there have been a couple of scandals that have popped up regarding folks with records being hosted by Twin Galaxies (the keeper of video game records). If I remember correctly off the top of my head:

- A record owner entered his own score in the Twin Galaxy Database
- A record owner was also a referee at Twin Galaxy
- A record owner is closer friends with Twin Galaxy employees
- Current computers cannot top the "fastest race" of some Atari 2600 scores...therefore, current gamers believe the original "record" was an untruth.
- A handful of records on Twin Galaxies are over twice as high as the #2 on the top 10 list. This seems highly suspicious.

How much longer until Guiness Book of World Records no longer use Twin Galaxies as their official record keepers?
 
Video game speed runners and record chasers are some weird fanatics, but you have to respect their skill. It takes a shitload of practice and lightning reflexes to accomplish some of the shit they do.

That being said, if he cheated on some of his scores fuck him then, he's already one of the best why tarnish your legacy in a community that NEVER forgives or forgets?
 
After watching that doc, I initially thought he did cheat all along and always wondered why twin galaxies accepted recorded scores.....if you set those kinda records it should be live in public.

Anyways it was an entertaining doc even if you dont like video games.
 
Dirt Road Soldier said:
Video game speed runners and record chasers are some weird fanatics, but you have to respect their skill. It takes a shitload of practice and lightning reflexes to accomplish some of the shit they do.
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What blows my mind is not so much the skill, but the endurance it takes to break some of those records. You're talking 30-50-100 hours straight, for some of those games. It's absolutely insane.

And then on top of that, what really killed me about the records, is that they had that creepy fat dude, who has to sit there and watch all these fucking tapes to make sure the record is legit. My God, if my life ever takes me to a place where I'm watching some guy set a Nibbler record on 90 hours of tape, and I'm doing it for free, please just shoot me.
 
Who fucking cares enough to make a video exposing it, even if it’s true? These guys need to get a fucking life. You know, like posting on sherdog.
 
First off, that movie was incredible and second, I am not surprised mutherfuckers because that Billy dude was such a douche.
 
shadow_priest_x said:
This really depends on the documentary. "Documentary" is a pretty broad category of films.

Look at something like PBS's Frontline series. Those are documentaries but they are also certainly journalistic works.

Regarding something like KoK, you could argue it's not a piece of journalism, but I still think the creators have a responsibility to tell an honest story. After all, look at how so-called reality TV is derided for being fabricated. When someone watches a documentary they want to be confident that the filmmaker is telling a story that is accurate to the facts.
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But seriously, I think what you're talking about is including all the facts, right? Not just being accurate, but making sure to report on the truth of High Score Keeper and not just Mitchell and Wiebe. Or whatever.

What I said wasn't intended to mean documentaries are inaccurate. But rather they are selective or discretionary. The process of gleaning a cogent narrative from multiple sources covering a variety of sub-topics requires judicious selection that ultimately results in certain facts being deemed irrelevant and therefore jettisoned. I don't mean these facts are irrelevant to life or, like, earth in general, mind you, just irrelevant to the documentary at hand. In which case I say documentaries do not owe it to anyone to include random factoids that would otherwise derail the impact of its story. For instance with KING OF KONG they created this rivalry that looked really good on camera. And while it would be accurate to say that these two ultimately vied for second place since neither of them are current record holders, it doesn't really help the documentary. Omission doesn't necessarily make it dishonest.

Rosa Parks' place in history is accurate to the facts, but she wasn't the first Black woman to refuse sitting on the back of the bus. This isn't a fact that is widely known popularized in real-life history; there's no asterisk on her name in the same way Columbus Day is being revised from celebration to atonement. What I'm saying is one can't even be confident that real life is presented with all the facts, let alone should one assign such a nebulous responsibility to a handful of sweaty people with cameras about some video game geeks.
 
shadow_priest_x said:
I don't really understand that, especially if there's no money on the line, because it's not like you can actually feel good about the accomplishment or take any pride in it.
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You're still a winner. You vanquished your opponents. Jon Jones "cheated". You think he got no satisfaction from pounding the back of DC's head in until the ref had to save his life?

props to Mitchell. Donkey Kong is hard as fuck.
 
ISWThunder said:
He was signing autographs at a retro video game convention outside of LA a few weeks ago. I listened to him desperately hit on some girl for about a minute. If I wasnt laughing so hard, I would have vomited all over his awful white suit.
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You're green with envy. You wish you had access to those big-tittied groupies that fill video game conventions, treating speed runners like the gods they are
 
Marcellus: Night of the fight, you might feel a slight sting. That's pride fuckin' with you. Fuck pride! Pride only hurts, it never helps. You fight through that shit. 'Cause a year from now, when you kicking it in the Caribbean, you gonna say to yourself, "Marcellus Wallace was right."

Butch: I got no problem with that, Mr. Wallace.

Marcellus: In the 5th, your ass goes down. (Butch nods silently) Say it.

Butch: In the 5th, my ass goes down.
 
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