International Birth Tourism: How Wealthy Chinese Use Loophole To Secure American and Canadian Citizenships

[Orgasmo]

If your house doubled in price and all other prices went up double, you would be in the exact same place you were in before. Of course there are transaction costs but that is true for all things. The idiot interpretation is coming from the clown that can't do basic math. The specifics of the matter is exactly what is escaping you. At best you are no worse off. Now if we factor in that rich Chinese are taking their wealth created in a FOREIGN country and bringing it over here, what do you think the impact is going to be net net? Again the idea that any increase in demand will just be eaten up by inflation is piss poor economics. And movinginto a less expensive area? well no shit, that is a legit way to profit from values going up in one area, which then leads to more building in an other.

You are not exactly in the same place as before. That is an ignorant thing to claim. Your wage is stagnant, and any extra money you made selling your home would be diminished quickly by rising housing prices unless you immediately purchase another. It's also bullshit to claim that the locals are no worse off especially considering that majority of them do not own housing property. A market with prices pushed up by foreign demands is inaccessible to the majority of working class in the local area, regardless of how you want to twist it. To suggesting moving to a new area to profit from your so called new found wealth is talking out of your ass without knowing the local condition. Majority of work positions are concentrated in metro Vancouver. You would have to transit for a minimum of 45 minutes to 2 hours from the nearby satellite towns to work for a one way trip. So either you take the burden of added transport cost, or you downgrade to a smaller home. That sounds a shit deal to majority of regular working people.

That has nothing to do with rich Chinese immigrants. Are you really blaming them for wage stagnation and a lack of housing supply? But yeah let's add falling RE prices to the mix, that should help everyone out and get the supply of houses up again, durrrr.

Don't be a retard. I said the wealth Chinese immigrants is part of the problem, not the totality of it. There is no lack of housing supply. I worked for a real estate developer for condos previously and at least 1/3 of our new units sold were sitting empty. The price is artificially high not because of local demands, but partly because Vancouver itself has become a place where wealthy Chinese use to hide assets from the Chinese government. I had clients owning half a dozen condos that only spends about 3 months in Canada a year to satisfy the permanent resident requirement. They work and spend in China majority of the time, not here.

Climb off your soapbox and while you are at it learn the difference between allowing a rich person to simply buy something with resources from a FOREIGN country and trickle down. Trickle down is more than just espousing very basic market principals, like targeted tax cuts, etc. that I am not advocating. Taxing a portion of the wealth imported by new arrivals to help the poor is a good idea, but no need to go right into economic la la land and say rich people coming to a country to spend money is some tragedy.

Oh please spare me the disguised trickle down economics bullshit. "Taxing" the newly arrived wealth is a joke, and I have already provided several sources to debunk it. The so called wealthy investors are generating less tax revenues than refugees, a group that's at the bottom of the economic ladder. Even the government freely admits that any benefit is limited to put it lightly. The wealthy Chinese didn't come here to spend money, they came to store it in the form of housing property. They are collecting social security, education and medical benefits while paying extremely little tax. The bulk of these benefits are funded by working class taxpayers that are being further squeezed with the inflated housing prices.

The real tragedy is we still have idiots advocating how this is a good thing.

 

[Orgasmo]

Ah the shady ethnic businessman angle. They all stick together too. Better or worse than the j e w s ?

Spoken from ignorance like always. Ever seen a bus load of wealth Chinese visitors making plans on how to avoid Canadian taxes? That's even before they purchased anything.

Oh and you're bring out the Joos now? Just going down some more right?

 

[Arkain2K]

I dont see whats wrong, these are wealthy Chinese

Well, for one, you and I are paying for these wealthy Chinese's hospital bills.

Chen and his business associate, Dong Li, "earn hundreds of thousands of dollars in income from their visa fraud scheme," according to court documents, yet Li filed no tax return and Chen filed a false return. Neither cited their foreign bank accounts as required by law. Chen drives a $200,000 Bentley, his wife a luxury BMW.

Investigators focused on three companies specializing in birth tourism fraud. In Orange County, the pregnant Chinese nationals tell hospital admission officials they're indigent, sticking U.S. taxpayers with the cost of their babies, "which often exceed $25,000" according to court records.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/03/feds-crack-down-on-chinese-birth-tourism-scam/

 

[Arkain2K]

U.S. Sen. David Vitter discuss his new bill to amend the Immigration and Nationality Act in order to limit birthright citizenship to children born in the U.S. to at least one parent who is a U.S. citizen, legal resident alien or active member of the U.S. Armed Forces:

 

[Fosheez**]

I was born in Germany(Army dad) and was given a choice at age 18 to choose German or US citizenship. Maybe the military has a loophole?


Edit-My mother was American also.

If it was a US military base in Germany, that is considered American soil and you are an American. If one or both of your parents are an American citizen and you are born in another country, you are still considered an American citizen.

 

[Arkain2K]

If it was a US military base in Germany, that is considered American soil and you are an American.

I hate noobs who post in my threads without reading through it first.

Many parents of children born abroad want to know if their children are U.S. citizens. The U.S. grants citizenship in one of three ways: naturalization, in which someone becomes a U.S. citizen sometime after birth; birth on U.S. soil; or birth to parents who are U.S. citizens. Contrary to popular belief, military bases are not considered "U.S. soil" for citizenship purposes. Therefore, the only way children born abroad can acquire citizenship at birth is through their parents.

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f5...2952817/showpost.php?p=104002499&postcount=21

 

[Rod1]

Well, for one, you and I are paying for these wealthy Chinese's hospital bills.

Im not American, but there are plenty of Chinese immigrant where i live, they seem to be hard working and good customers.

 

[Arkain2K]

Im not American, but there are plenty of Chinese immigrant where i live, they seem to be hard working and good customers.

These Chinese millionaire "Birth Tourists" who came to the U.S to have their "Natural-born American babies", stick their $25,000 hospital bill to the American tax-payers, and quickly return to their mansions in Beijing are hardly the same as the hard-working Mrs. Lee you know in Chinatown, who fled her homeland decades ago to escape from Mao Zedong's Glorious Revolution. Connections with Beijing's ruling class is how many of these "Birth Tourists" got their fortune, so don't ever expect the culture and values to be the same.

Likewise, I do not consider family members of the ever-corrupt Vietnamese government (who are buying up real estate in NorCal in trove with the millions they squeezed from their people) in the same group as the hardworking boat people/political refugees who fled South Vietnam after the Fall of Saigon either.

 

[Phoenix Down]

Bitches love America.

 

[myung76]

Deleted post

 

[Gandhi]

You are not exactly in the same place as before. That is an ignorant thing to claim. Your wage is stagnant, and any extra money you made selling your home would be diminished quickly by rising housing prices unless you immediately purchase another. It's also bullshit to claim that the locals are no worse off especially considering that majority of them do not own housing property. A market with prices pushed up by foreign demands is inaccessible to the majority of working class in the local area, regardless of how you want to twist it. To suggesting moving to a new area to profit from your so called new found wealth is talking out of your ass without knowing the local condition. Majority of work positions are concentrated in metro Vancouver. You would have to transit for a minimum of 45 minutes to 2 hours from the nearby satellite towns to work for a one way trip. So either you take the burden of added transport cost, or you downgrade to a smaller home. That sounds a shit deal to majority of regular working people.

Lol so now the seller is getting scammed by a future increase in prices that happens right after he sells but before he can buy the next house? I am in the same place I always was, which is calling you out as an oversimplified economically illiterate buffoon. Your majority of regular working people is a caricature, especially when 65% of Vancouver (ok 49% is you want to cherry pick the city and ignore the greater Vancouver area) owns their own home. By your twisted logic if 50.1% don't own there own homes then policy that causes home prices to go down is a good thing? Have you grasped the simple concept that no one is being forced to sell their home? You trying to rationalize why it's bad for the Canadian seller but good for the corrupt immigrant is either racist or just plain stupid. In either event it is an insult to both. As if whitey can not figure out if a price is a good deal or not and factor the bus pass he needs to buy into the equation.

Don't be a retard. I said the wealth Chinese immigrants is part of the problem, not the totality of it. There is no lack of housing supply. I worked for a real estate developer for condos previously and at least 1/3 of our new units sold were sitting empty. The price is artificially high not because of local demands, but partly because Vancouver itself has become a place where wealthy Chinese use to hide assets from the Chinese government. I had clients owning half a dozen condos that only spends about 3 months in Canada a year to satisfy the permanent resident requirement. They work and spend in China majority of the time, not here.

Wealthy Chinese have NOTHING to do with wage stagnation. Globalization, automation, failure in education, etc etc etc. has zero to do with letting any group of wealthy people buy homes. Becuase that is your base argument. Increasing the supply of wealthy people into an area with limited real estate will impoverish all and only help the purchaser. Even if that made any sense, it would be true if wages were going up or not. Or are u really trying to argue that if wages were going up x% a year that it would be ok for the Chinese to buy homes?

That you claim there is no lack of supply is mind boggling, of course there is. If supply was unlimited then prices would not be going up. But rising prices are an incentive to build more, not even relevant if the owned houses are empty or not. Your economic solution is less demand, which is of course silly. Turnng this all into some zero sum fallacy.

Oh please spare me the disguised trickle down economics bullshit. "Taxing" the newly arrived wealth is a joke, and I have already provided several sources to debunk it. The so called wealthy investors are generating less tax revenues than refugees, a group that's at the bottom of the economic ladder. Even the government freely admits that any benefit is limited to put it lightly. The wealthy Chinese didn't come here to spend money, they came to store it in the form of housing property. They are collecting social security, education and medical benefits while paying extremely little tax. The bulk of these benefits are funded by working class taxpayers that are being further squeezed with the inflated housing prices.

The real tragedy is we still have idiots advocating how this is a good thing.

Yeah it's fairly obviouse that you can not differentiate between trickle down economics and some common sense economic principles a 4rth grader could get get. I am open to cases where the free market solution does not work and don't think we should default to "subsidies the rich" policies. So your crying about Canadian immigration policy is just a straw man. I am not arguing for tax breaks for the rich, immigrants or otherwise. I am just saying that allowing more rich people access to buy property does not impoverish Canadians, it enriches them. And your comment about the working class and taxes is just more nonesense. The majority of taxes are paid by those who own a home and they would benefit from an increases in property values. Not that it's really relevant to the debate.

And your BS about Chinese businessman is just racist nonesense. Answer the question and don't be a pussy about it. If more Jews were allowed into the area or any any other group of rich people, would it be just as bad? Is it your argument that more wealthy people in an area is bad becuase they horde resources or does there need to be an ethnic angle? I get being skeptical of trickle down, I just want to know what combo of nationalist commie angle you are coming from here.

 

[Gandhi]

Im not American, but there are plenty of Chinese immigrant where i live, they seem to be hard working and good customers.

The only good immigrant is a poor one, umm er or something.....

 

[MadSquabbles500]

It depends on how fast the prices rise, and exactly how much of the real estate the chinese end up owning. If they end up owning all the desirable real estate, the chinese can really gouge us. Domestic developers, Landlords, and other real estate pros are considered bad enough. Some people just have a pessimistic view. It does not mean they are right or wrong. Only time will tell.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

The only good immigrant is a poor one, umm er or something.....

There is good and bad to that too. Wealthy people here get even cheaper labor. The poor people here already, lose their jerbs.

 

[Gandhi]

Mad I think u are getting to the point. There are two sides to every economic impact. If one wants to be anti immigrant just focus on the spin that makes it negative. Rich immigrants bad as they make things more expensive, poor immigrants bad as they lower wages (ie make things less expensive). It is the them vs. us attitude that I don't buy into.

 

[Orgasmo]

Lol so now the seller is getting scammed by a future increase in prices that happens right after he sells but before he can buy the next house? I am in the same place I always was, which is calling you out as an oversimplified economically illiterate buffoon. Your majority of regular working people is a caricature, especially when 65% of Vancouver (ok 49% is you want to cherry pick the city and ignore the greater Vancouver area) owns their own home. By your twisted logic if 50.1% don't own there own homes then policy that causes home prices to go down is a good thing? Have you grasped the simple concept that no one is being forced to sell their home? You trying to rationalize why it's bad for the Canadian seller but good for the corrupt immigrant is either racist or just plain stupid. In either event it is an insult to both. As if whitey can not figure out if a price is a good deal or not and factor the bus pass he needs to buy into the equation.

You act like the seller's home is the only one that has increased in vale, without taking into account that other properties are also going up at the same time. In 20 years ago, an average newly built house in east Vancouver cost approximately 500k to 700k, while it cost a minimum of 1.5 to 2.5 mil today. That's triple the price within a span of two decades. If I sell my place for 500k today and it's going to cost 550k to get a similar place by next year, any extra money I made is going to get eroded by housing price inflation fairly quickly, unless I make another purchase right away. There are also the options of moving further city center or downgrading so I can enjoy my "profit" from selling higher, but is that what you would call an improvement? Maybe you would in your own little bizzaro world.

The only thing that got called out is your own stupidity. It's funny how you pull the racist card as soon as your argument is debunked. The fact is that majority of the people in Vancouver do not own any housing property, and your 65% home ownership figure is for the entire lower mainland. Not only does high housing prices put a strain on people trying to purchase their own homes, they also place a higher strain on current homeowners that have mortgages. Increasing Canadians are paying higher and higher portion of their income for it.

http://montrealgazette.com/business...isposable-income-ratio-hits-new-high-at-163-3

Wealthy Chinese have NOTHING to do with wage stagnation. Globalization, automation, failure in education, etc etc etc. has zero to do with letting any group of wealthy people buy homes. Becuase that is your base argument. Increasing the supply of wealthy people into an area with limited real estate will impoverish all and only help the purchaser. Even if that made any sense, it would be true if wages were going up or not. Or are u really trying to argue that if wages were going up x% a year that it would be ok for the Chinese to buy homes?

That you claim there is no lack of supply is mind boggling, of course there is. If supply was unlimited then prices would not be going up. But rising prices are an incentive to build more, not even relevant if the owned houses are empty or not. Your economic solution is less demand, which is of course silly. Turnng this all into some zero sum fallacy.

Where the hell did I say Chinese immigrants caused wage stagnation? Have some integrity and quit lying. I said wealthy Chinese immigrants that arrived on CIIP program are part of the problem of overly inflated housing prices, which compounds the problem of falling real wages. Increased housing prices also means increasing rent, and further cuts into the income of those that do not own a home. I am not advocating for a halt in immigration. I am advocating a halt to an immigration program that does not benefit Canadian society as a whole. I welcome skilled labor from China if they work, live and pay taxes here, which most wealth immigrants that arrived with the CIIP program don't.

There couldn't be a lack of demand because prices are increasing? Are you dense or are you really dense? You've never heard of a housing price bubble before?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/20/moodys-housing-market-canada_n_6015440.html

Yeah it's fairly obviouse that you can not differentiate between trickle down economics and some common sense economic principles a 4rth grader could get get. I am open to cases where the free market solution does not work and don't think we should default to "subsidies the rich" policies. So your crying about Canadian immigration policy is just a straw man. I am not arguing for tax breaks for the rich, immigrants or otherwise. I am just saying that allowing more rich people access to buy property does not impoverish Canadians, it enriches them. And your comment about the working class and taxes is just more nonesense. The majority of taxes are paid by those who own a home and they would benefit from an increases in property values. Not that it's really relevant to the debate.

And your BS about Chinese businessman is just racist nonesense. Answer the question and don't be a pussy about it. If more Jews were allowed into the area or any any other group of rich people, would it be just as bad? Is it your argument that more wealthy people in an area is bad becuase they horde resources or does there need to be an ethnic angle? I get being skeptical of trickle down, I just want to know what combo of nationalist commie angle you are coming from here.

Throwing around terms like "free market" and "common sense" doesn't actually make you any smarter if your argument is flawed in the first place. Increased in property value is only beneficial when the prices are keeping with wage level in the same geographical area. Overly inflated housing prices mean current homeowners are paying more for their mortgage and property taxes as a percentage of their income, which actually decrease their purchasing power.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1878442/household-debt-loads-reach-new-high-as-home-loans-grow-bigger/

As far as your "Jew" argument, it's beyond ridiculous. I know you want to throw that race card around, but kindly stuff that in your own piehole. I'm opposed to any group that inflate local housing prices without significantly contributing to society. Most home owners in Vancouver work, spend and pay taxes locally, which contributes to the economy. The wealthy Chinese that came with the investor immigration program on the other hand, does little of the above. Majority of them earn their money back in China, which do not contribute to Canadian income tax coffers. They spend most of their time in China, only coming back here to satisfy their permanent resident requirement. Of course, I already provided the sources showing they declare less income than refugees and even the Canada government admitted they brought little economic benefit to Canada.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...-earnings-in-canada-than-investor-immigrants/

Here what the government analysis says:

Most immigrant investors are not making a long-term positive economic contribution to Canada. They report employment and investment income below Canadian averages and those of most other economic immigrants. Over a 20-year career, an immigrant investor pays about $200,000 less in income taxes than a federal skilled worker and almost $100,000 less in taxes than one live-in caregiver.

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=832319

But hey, feel free to keep drinking that trickle down economics Kool-Aid. Throwing around terms like "nationalist commie" and "racist" seems like a desperate retard who is grasping at straws.

 

[Orgasmo]

It depends on how fast the prices rise, and exactly how much of the real estate the chinese end up owning. If they end up owning all the desirable real estate, the chinese can really gouge us. Domestic developers, Landlords, and other real estate pros are considered bad enough. Some people just have a pessimistic view. It does not mean they are right or wrong. Only time will tell.

There are places in Canada with much higher population and economic growth rate than Vancouver, and yet their housing prices are increasing at a much slower pace. At the same time, they also do not attract as much wealth Chinese immigrants as Vancouver.

A household in Vancouver needs nearly three times the income of a household in Halifax to buy an average home, according to a new report on incomes and house prices in major Canadian cities.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/11/income-needed-to-buy-house-canada_n_6445932.html

The immigrant investor scheme has been criticized by both the current federal immigration minister, Chris Alexander, and his predecessor, Jason Kenney, as ineffective in luring foreign investment.

“There is also little evidence that immigrant investors as a class are maintaining ties to Canada or making a positive economic contribution to the country,” the budget stated. “Overall, immigrant investors report employment and investment income below Canadian averages and pay significantly lower taxes over a lifetime than other categories of economic immigrants.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Ot...rant+program/9496380/story.html#ixzz3UQqV2oQI

According to a certain retard here, the Canadian immigration minister is a racist nationalist commie with no understanding of economics since having massive influx of wealthy people are always beneficial.

 

[Gandhi]

It is an improvement for anyone going into retirement or anyone that is changing locations etc. everyone else is at worst in the same spot. People are capable of buying a new home condition on sale of current . Your are still operating under the assumption that people are to stupid to just hold onto their homes rather than sell if it will hurt them somehow. Orgasm knows best lol.

READ I said 49% in the city and 65% in the greater Vancouver area. Your economics by numbers arguement that we should lower property values becuase it helps 51% is still one sided and absurd.

Try to imagine a situation were wages are falling, prices are going up, but people's housing prices are dropping. Would that be a good thing? I can concede tha adding more consumers during a bubble to any market could be negative, but that is real short term thinking. Real estate, stock market, you could use your same logic, but long term more investors means more for existing owners and more supply in the future. That is not trickle down but simple economics in action. Rather than screech trickle down over and over, explain why this is wrong without some appeal to hyperinflation.

That gazette link does little but say that people are borrowing more becuase values have gone up and interest rates have gone down. It does not address how a rise in prices is bad for existing owners.

Bubbles are caused be demand, demand that is not sustainable given the economic merits and outstrips supply. Tulips had a high demand. Rich people willing to park their money in a safer place seems much more sustainable than other reasons for a price increase and it still provides an incentive to build more. The danger of a bubbple is that you end up with too many empty houses that are woth nothing, not that we won't have enough supply. This is pretty basic stuff but not surprised that i have to explain it to you.

You don't obv know my posting history, I don't go throwing around the race card, but you opened yourself up to the question with your "shady Chinese b man" comment, so quite your belly aching and stop over generalizing, and I'll take at your word on this race shit.

Also AGAIN, I am not advocating for any program, just the idea that allowing more investors access to invest is net net an economic benefit (yes there are always up and down depending on the side you look at).

You act like the seller's home is the only one that has increased in vale, without taking into account that other properties are also going up at the same time. In 20 years ago, an average newly built house in east Vancouver cost approximately 500k to 700k, while it cost a minimum of 1.5 to 2.5 mil today. That's triple the price within a span of two decades. If I sell my place for 500k today and it's going to cost 550k to get a similar place by next year, any extra money I made is going to get eroded by housing price inflation fairly quickly, unless I make another purchase right away. There are also the options of moving further city center or downgrading so I can enjoy my "profit" from selling higher, but is that what you would call an improvement? Maybe you would in your own little bizzaro world.

The only thing that got called out is your own stupidity. It's funny how you pull the racist card as soon as your argument is debunked. The fact is that majority of the people in Vancouver do not own any housing property, and your 65% home ownership figure is for the entire lower mainland. Not only does high housing prices put a strain on people trying to purchase their own homes, they also place a higher strain on current homeowners that have mortgages. Increasing Canadians are paying higher and higher portion of their income for it.

http://montrealgazette.com/business...isposable-income-ratio-hits-new-high-at-163-3

N

Where the hell did I say Chinese immigrants caused wage stagnation? Have some integrity and quit lying. I said wealthy Chinese immigrants that arrived on CIIP program are part of the problem of overly inflated housing prices, which compounds the problem of falling real wages. Increased housing prices also means increasing rent, and further cuts into the income of those that do not own a home. I am not advocating for a halt in immigration. I am advocating a halt to an immigration program that does not benefit Canadian society as a whole. I welcome skilled labor from China if they work, live and pay taxes here, which most wealth immigrants that arrived with the CIIP program don't.

There couldn't be a lack of demand because prices are increasing? Are you dense or are you really dense? You've never heard of a housing price bubble before?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/20/moodys-housing-market-canada_n_6015440.html



Throwing around terms like "free market" and "common sense" doesn't actually make you any smarter if your argument is flawed in the first place. Increased in property value is only beneficial when the prices are keeping with wage level in the same geographical area. Overly inflated housing prices mean current homeowners are paying more for their mortgage and property taxes as a percentage of their income, which actually decrease their purchasing power.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1878442/household-debt-loads-reach-new-high-as-home-loans-grow-bigger/

As far as your "Jew" argument, it's beyond ridiculous. I know you want to throw that race card around, but kindly stuff that in your own piehole. I'm opposed to any group that inflate local housing prices without significantly contributing to society. Most home owners in Vancouver work, spend and pay taxes locally, which contributes to the economy. The wealthy Chinese that came with the investor immigration program on the other hand, does little of the above. Majority of them earn their money back in China, which do not contribute to Canadian income tax coffers. They spend most of their time in China, only coming back here to satisfy their permanent resident requirement. Of course, I already provided the sources showing they declare less income than refugees and even the Canada government admitted they brought little economic benefit to Canada.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...-earnings-in-canada-than-investor-immigrants/

Here what the government analysis says:


http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=832319

But hey, feel free to keep drinking that trickle down economics Kool-Aid. Throwing around terms like "nationalist commie" and "racist" seems like a desperate retard who is grasping at straws.

 

[Gandhi]

There are places in Canada with much higher population and economic growth rate than Vancouver, and yet their housing prices are increasing at a much slower pace. At the same time, they also do not attract as much wealth Chinese immigrants as Vancouver.



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/11/income-needed-to-buy-house-canada_n_6445932.html



http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Ot...rant+program/9496380/story.html#ixzz3UQqV2oQI

According to a certain retard here, the Canadian immigration minister is a racist nationalist commie with no understanding of economics since having massive influx of wealthy people are always beneficial.

No Moran, the minister is not calling Chinese business people "shady". Interest free loans to the governemt for free residency is a dumb program period and I never said otherwise.

 

[Orgasmo]

It is an improvement for anyone going into retirement or anyone that is changing locations etc. everyone else is at worst in the same spot. People are capable of buying a new home condition on sale of current . Your are still operating under the assumption that people are to stupid to just hold onto their homes rather than sell if it will hurt them somehow. Orgasm knows best lol.

READ I said 49% in the city and 65% in the greater Vancouver area. Your economics by numbers arguement that we should lower property values becuase it helps 51% is still one sided and absurd.

Try to imagine a situation were wages are falling, prices are going up, but people's housing prices are dropping. Would that be a good thing? I can concede tha adding more consumers during a bubble to any market could be negative, but that is real short term thinking. Real estate, stock market, you could use your same logic, but long term more investors means more for existing owners and more supply in the future. That is not trickle down but simple economics in action. Rather than screech trickle down over and over, explain why this is wrong without some appeal to hyperinflation.

That gazette link does little but say that people are borrowing more becuase values have gone up and interest rates have gone down. It does not address how a rise in prices is bad for existing owners.

Bubbles are caused be demand, demand that is not sustainable given the economic merits and outstrips supply. Tulips had a high demand. Rich people willing to park their money in a safer place seems much more sustainable than other reasons for a price increase and it still provides an incentive to build more. The danger of a bubbple is that you end up with too many empty houses that are woth nothing, not that we won't have enough supply. This is pretty basic stuff but not surprised that i have to explain it to you.

You don't obv know my posting history, I don't go throwing around the race card, but you opened yourself up to the question with your "shady Chinese b man" comment, so quite your belly aching and stop over generalizing, and I'll take at your word on this race shit.

Also AGAIN, I am not advocating for any program, just the idea that allowing more investors access to invest is net net an economic benefit (yes there are always up and down depending on the side you look at).

So you admit that inflated housing prices at best means local homeowners are in the same spot, unless they are downsizing or moving. That sounds like a shit deal when you don't gain anything unless you're moving down the ladder. That is just for property owners only, and does not take into account over half the population in Vancouver that doesn't own housing. For the majority, they are going to have a difficult time saving up for skyrocketing down payment and rent. Apparently you think that's a good thing for them.

My argument was that property value would increase at a much lower and reasonably pace had the Canadian government not granted tens of thousands of easy entries into Canada in the past 10 years. As of now, you have thousands of Chinese millionaires here that declare less income than our refugees, while sweeping up prime properties with the money they "don't" have. There are other Canadian cities with much higher growth rate than Vancouver, and yet their housing market is nowhere out of whack.

You're still advocating for the same old bullshit that how over long term, these wealthy buyers are ultimately good for everybody. That's exactly what trickle down advocates would say. This has not been happening evidently, and vast majority of locals had their wallets squeezed by higher rent, higher mortgage payments and higher property taxes from inflated value. The end result is that consumer spending power is being weakened, while people are racking up debt quickly. This is what the Gazette article quoted:

That means households owed about $1.63 in consumer credit, mortgage, and non-mortgage loans for every dollar of disposable income.

http://montrealgazette.com/business...-ratio-hits-new-high-at-163-3?__lsa=5071-2526

The high housing prices are only sustained by waves and waves of wealthy immigrants snatching up properties since the early 1990's. The massive influx in prices started with a wave of rich immigrants fleeing Hong Kong before 1997 handover to China, sustained further by another wave of mainland wealthy investors with the CIIP program. When foreign demands are not actually contributing to the economy other than cost of housing beyond reach for the majority of locals, then what you have is a price bubble. That demand would not be there had the government considered the consequences of its failed immigration program.

I worked for Concord Pacific, the largest developer in Western Canada, for 4 years. Hell I even know a way or two of how they launder money under the government's nose. Even if you don't believe my personal experience, I provided half a dozen sources to support my arguments. So far, you failed to provide a single source where you back up your argument that allowing a flood of wealthy foreigners into the local real estate market has a net benefit for locals.

Keep throwing around the race card, and how I'm some "nationalist commie nazi whitie". That's the only thing you seem to be good at so far.