Economy Bitcoin Doubters, Come Eat Your Crow

[Based and White Pilled]

It's a long story... one that involves friendship... then love... betrayal.... vengeance.. and finally... redemption...

This isn't one of those smooching stories is it?

 

[Lead]

I was not able to take your post serious after you said "it stopped a long time ago". the adoption, market cap, and usage have all been going up.

I'm not looking to educate you why this currency has tangible benefits that other currencies just do not have.

but obviously a currency that when used appropriately is nearly anonymous can obviously be used on the internet's growing black market. there will always be a need for it.

The it stopped line was addressed to the OP. The op wasn't talking about market cap, adoption, etc. they simply posted the current price per coin which explains my post. It spiked up and dropped and now it heading back to back where it dropped.

If your argument is it is the best to use for the black market, sure man. That isn't something to eat crow over and it's actually another reason I wouldn't expect it to ever have a stable price with that dominating it's use that you are touting.

Getting in before it shot up wasn't dumb. I'm not trying to criticize anyone who did it. I'm actually telling them you won big and are now continuing to dream big and keeping it at hold because you want to believe it's some type of stock that will shoot in value. The problem is a spike in price makes it volatile and have less purpose as a currency again. The thing people holding on to it is the same reason it's bad. Currency isn't something you should feel incentivized to hold on to rather than make actual exchanges and I think that's what the majority of people are doing who aren't using it for illegal means

 

[Lead]

It's a long story... one that involves friendship... then love... betrayal.... vengeance.. and finally... redemption...

Seven seasons and a movie

 

[mike sherry]

It being here to stay and it being a good investment are mutually exclusive concepts in this case.

do you realize why bitcoin is deflationary currency? if so, then you realize why in the long term (read: extremely long term) that it is indeed a good investment, predicated on continued use

 

[Lead]

do you realize why bitcoin is deflationary currency? if so, then you realize why in the long term (read: extremely long term) that it is indeed a good investment, predicated on continued use

Do you understand that deflation currency as a means of currency is a bad thing? So far the ease of it being anonymous has outweighed the flaws in it being a currency for those doing illegal activities

As an investment, you are pretty much agreeing it is valuable only for the sense that more suckers will push the price up thinking they will win big. It's not a good investment in the sense it has real value behind it. A person could buy and sell a penny stock when it booms and busts in under an hour and his investment really didn't produce any value. It just shifted money around from person to person. Some lost a bunch. Some gain a bunch.

 

[xcvbn]

Ethereum is the new hotness. Bought 1000 at $0.40/ETH and have ridden the waves to success. Slumping now but Proof of Stake looms and we'll be seeing ATHs.

 

[Lead]

@mike sherry , outside of the black market, explain to me how Bitcoin, a deflationary currency, is a good economic idea. Why would a business want to work on a deflationary currency? Why would a consumer want to actually use Bitcoin as a currency if it could increase in value the next day?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The way it works now, it never could be used as a primary currency unless they find a way to keep price stable

The highlighted might be why you're not taking notice. It's an alternative currency, not a primary one. That's the beauty of it. Not being tied to any nation or political authority.

 

[VivaRevolution]

It spiked up at one point and stopped a long time ago. You are silly if you think we are eating crow. It isn't a good investment (and actually shouldn't be seen as one because it's a currency but many of it's user's don't understand that either) and depends on the hype of others to think it works. and dump their money into it.

I disagree. If it is the preferred currency of the blackmarket on the web, then the market is dictating it's value.

I never took bit coin seriously, but that little piece of info gives it some legitimacy.

 

[Lead]

The highlighted might be why you're not taking notice. It's an alternative currency, not a primary one. That's the beauty of it. Not being tied to any nation or political authority.

As an alternative, it guess you could get the pros of the value increasing without the cons of the economy using deflationary currency? There has to be loss somewhere. Theoretically, if used at a large scale, would the primary currency then lose value as a result? Businesses would be using the dollar to make their goods and then sell using the coin. Though consumers with the coin would be reluctant to buy cause it's value could increase, some would and as a result the business wins both ways? Why wouldn't the consumer just pay in dollars if he found future value in the coin then? It keeps going back that a person shouldn't use it to buy things which is the entire point of a currency. I still can't see value in this other than it shifting money around where some get fucked and others rewarded for timing

 

[Lead]

I disagree. If it is the preferred currency of the blackmarket on the web, then the market is dictating it's value.

I never took bit coin seriously, but that little piece of info gives it some legitimacy.

The black market gives it value because of its anonymity. I would say that market is controlling the value probably a lot and I think I mentioned it in an earlier thread. The problem is so far we've seen large shifts in price with the coin. That isn't something you want with a currency in a normal market economy

 

[Lead]

I can't remember who the Econ guys are on here. Would like more to post in the thread with that background

 

[VivaRevolution]

I can't remember who the Econ guys are on here. Would like more to post in the thread with that background

Indeed, although before knowing the blackmarket aspect of Bitcoin, my concern would have been in it collapsing like a Ponzi scheme, because at some point there was too much currency for the market to consume.

Now I think the concern would be an attempt to block it from the blackmarket through some legal action. I have no idea what legal action could be taken outside of banning Bitcoin, considering its use is on the dark web.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

As an alternative, it guess you could get the pros of the value increasing without the cons of the economy using deflationary currency? There has to be loss somewhere. Theoretically, if used at a large scale, would the primary currency then lose value as a result? Businesses would be using the dollar to make their goods and then sell using the coin. Though consumers with the coin would be reluctant to buy cause it's value could increase, some would and as a result the business wins both ways? Why wouldn't the consumer just pay in dollars if he found future value in the coin then? It keeps going back that a person shouldn't use it to buy things which is the entire point of a currency. I still can't see value in this other than it shifting money around where some get fucked and others rewarded for timing

It's risky for sure. Don't use it if you're scared. I'd think that the heavier the use the greater the stability.

I don't see how the primary currency loses value. Volume, sure. It could effect investments denominated in it if money goes elsewhere. But that's really hard for me to image. Meaning a massive shift from government backed currency to cryptocurrency. We'd probably need to see the value stabilized phase first and as you're well aware, that's not impending.

The black market gives it value because of its anonymity. I would say that market is controlling the value probably a lot and I think I mentioned it in an earlier thread. The problem is so far we've seen large shifts in price with the coin. That isn't something you want with a currency in a normal market economy

Absolutely there's value to anonymity. Just like your federal reserve notes are worth carrying because there's value to being backed by stability. So right now bitcoin attracts shy people who are willing to bet on the upside against the risk (in terms of the investment potential).

I can't remember who the Econ guys are on here. Would like more to post in the thread with that background

What would qualify one as such?

 

[Lead]

Indeed, although before knowing the blackmarket aspect of Bitcoin, my concern would have been in it collapsing like a Ponzi scheme, because at some point there was too much currency for the market to consume.

Now I think the concern would be an attempt to block it from the blackmarket through some legal action. I have no idea what legal action could be taken outside of banning Bitcoin, considering its use is on the dark web.

The hard ruling so far has been that it's seen a capital asset which means if you buy it at 10 and use it when it's worth 100, you have to pay taxes on that 90 gain you got. I'm not really sure how they could even track/ audit someone for this but it was somewhat of a blow. I don't really see there being much interference outside of that. Governments seem more focused on digitizing their own currency in order to cut down on black markets. Less cash means less currency for illegal transactions and if they aren't done with cash, they are easily tracked if digital. However, Bitcoin would be a route around that so it eventually could be targeted in time

 

[Lead]

It's risky for sure. Don't use it if you're scared. I'd think that the heavier the use the greater the stability.

I don't see how the primary currency loses value. Volume, sure. It could effect investments denominated in it if money goes elsewhere. But that's really hard for me to image. Meaning a massive shift from government backed currency to cryptocurrency. We'd probably need to see the value stabilized phase first and as you're well aware, that's not impending.





Absolutely there's value to anonymity. Just like your federal reserve notes are worth carrying because there's value to being backed by stability. So right now bitcoin attracts shy people who are willing to bet on the upside against the risk (in terms of the investment potential).




What would qualify one as such?

Buying into it to me would solely be the bet that I think people will follow after me while people before me continued to hold onto the currency and I could then sell it before others sold it. It all just seems like timing to me cause aside from the illegal activity, no one is really incentivized to actually use it. You hoard it instead and hope others think the same thing for you aren't the last in the line anymore.

My point with the value of the anonymity, it seems to only be very very valuable to the black market and really no others as much. Those users are ignoring the flaw in the currency because it's either use a deflationary or unstable currency that won't get them arrested or use a stable or slightly inflationary currency that will get them arrested. It isn't really a good push for Bitcoin IMO. It's just criminals using the only method they see will work. I actually bet the black market wishes the crypto currency that got popular was one which expanded in supply a certain amount as demand grew. Or maybe they are the ones benefiting because they are doing the prior example of making the product with cash and then selling it with Bitcoin?


I can't remember but I thought someone had a high degree in economics here. Could be wrong

 

[xcvbn]

Bitcoin's value is partly due to the anonymity aspect but also things like quick transaction times and extremely low transaction fees(<$0.25) worldwide. Bank wire fees are mind boggling in comparison- usually flat rates of $10+ for domestic to over $20 international and some banks even charge a percent fee. However, the biggest value has to do with blockchain technology and its place in our world's future. Banks like UBS, JPMorgan, among others, have invested hundreds of millions into Bitcoin and Ethereum through investments and the hiring of blockchain experts and advisers.

If you have the time I suggest researching blockchain technology yourself as it's not the simplest tech to explain in layman's terms but it's going to have an extraordinary impact on future societies. One example I'll use is in real estate. Housing lots can essentially be assigned a key or algorithmic number that can only be associated with one particular lot. When it's sold or ownership is transferred, the sale will be done through an electronic "smart contract"(another term to look up) which is placed on a public ledger(private info can remain hidden but the transaction will be transparent). This, from my understanding, reduces a massive amount of paperwork and middlemen plus their fees and other unneeded crap.

Again, I highly suggest doing your own research on "blockchain technology" and "ethereum smart contracts" as it's really groundbreaking stuff- like creation of the interweb groundbreaking. Blockchains can string together hundreds, thousands, millions of computers(smartphones, tablets, etc) together worldwide and combine their power to basically get shit done as a massive super computer.

 

[Gandhi]

do you realize why bitcoin is deflationary currency? if so, then you realize why in the long term (read: extremely long term) that it is indeed a good investment, predicated on continued use

I can guess, because the world order federal banks are going to inflate all fiat currency into the toilet while Bitcoin will maintain its value (even though right now it's less stable than 12 year girl after a 6 packs).

May as well buy gold, which is also a poor investment. Hedging against inflation and/or impending financial doom is not an investment strategy, saving resources into assets that will generate real wealth in the future is.

 

[xcvbn]

Buying into it to me would solely be the bet that I think people will follow after me while people before me continued to hold onto the currency and I could then sell it before others sold it. It all just seems like timing to me cause aside from the illegal activity, no one is really incentivized to actually use it. You hoard it instead and hope others think the same thing for you aren't the last in the line anymore.

My point with the value of the anonymity, it seems to only be very very valuable to the black market and really no others as much. Those users are ignoring the flaw in the currency because it's either use a deflationary or unstable currency that won't get them arrested or use a stable or slightly inflationary currency that will get them arrested. It isn't really a good push for Bitcoin IMO. It's just criminals using the only method they see will work. I actually bet the black market wishes the crypto currency that got popular was one which expanded in supply a certain amount as demand grew. Or maybe they are the ones benefiting because they are doing the prior example of making the product with cash and then selling it with Bitcoin?


I can't remember but I thought someone had a high degree in economics here. Could be wrong

Well, one massive benefit of remaining anonymous is that your Bitcoin wallet cannot be mirrored like a credit card. There is zero possibility for your Bitcoin wallet to be compromised so long as you basically keep it locked(and backed up like you would photos/legal documents) by only allowing transactions to be placed with a passcode. Obviously the downsides are the inevitable users who forget their wallet passcode and others who will hand that info over to Nigerian fraudsters. Another less secure but more convenient method is to store your Bitcoins on a website wallet(Coinbase, Bitbay) that operates like a bank where you give them your identification(DL, SSN, address) in case you forget your login info and passcode.

 

[Gandhi]

I can't remember who the Econ guys are on here. Would like more to post in the thread with that background

I am and I have . You already have the concepts down. As a medium of exchanges it has pluses (ease of use, anonymous) and minuses (value not stable compared to any currency / or commodity) . It has a niche appeal.

It's value as an investment is either entirely speculative based on trying to time rapid fluctuations in demand (fools errand) or as a CT hedge against the impending financial doomsday cause by central banks (fools errand times 10). Ie from a pure fundamentals perspective, it's not a good investment, anymore that just buying any currency or commodity is. And given the volatility and that the value is not underwritten by legal,authority, it's actually riskier.