BJ Penn was truly something special

[MikeMcMann]

BJ has an amazing career and he was a true pioneer.

It is ok to acknowledge both the highs and the lows of his career.

He truly looked like the next gen fighter when he first came into the UFC. I mean, he was ripping through 155 and looked to be on another level. But we should also remember that he couldn't win the title at the point. Lost to Jens. Drew with Uno.

His first win against Hughes was shocking. But let's not buy into the "he wanted to challenge himself". 155 got shut down because of UFC money troubles and because Penn had stunk it up against Uno.

One of the underrated themes of Penn's career IMO is how he overcame his early career underachievement in big fights and matured into a guy who won and defended the belt multiple times.

Overall he was in so many memorable fights. Some he won. Some he lost. But definitely one of the defining fighters of his gen.

this post nails it.

As i have said 'The Penn will fight anyone, anywhere meme' is way to over played.

He got gifted the Hughes fight and I don't think any top LW would not have jumped at that opportunity at the time particularly with a shut down LW division. Of course him winning it was impressive and he deserves the praise he got for it.

My view again is that fight however ruined him as he got addicted to the immense praise he got for over coming a 'larger opponent' and that, and him liking how he did not have to train as hard to fight at WW or above was the beginning of his downfall. Penn was a guy prior who could and did go 5 rounds in grueling grappling exchanges but he relied more on his boxing against the bigger guys.

Had Penn instead took his win over Hughes and went after the 3 other org's Top LW's and instead beat and won those top guys and took those belts, which I think he could have, his legacy would have been like GSp or Anderson at WW or MW respectively. One of deep divisional GOAT dominance that along with his Hughes win would keep in the GOAT talks today if not at the top as his win in the division above over Hughes would have been seen as bigger than GSP win over Bisping for the MW crown and both are bigger than anything Anderson did in the division above.

But yes BJ was key to drawing an audience to this sport during its formative years with some great performances and a pleasure to watch when he was on.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Fat BJ fought Machida when Machida weighed over 220lbs. To him it was just another fight.

Mighty Mouse is refusing to move up 10lbs. TEN. He's even refusing to fight TJ who's willing to move down to 125lbs without getting paid extra. Jon Jones with a full training camp refused to take on short notice MW Chael Sonnen who had no training, because it's too risky.

You think guys like BJ or Sakuraba would pull cowardly shit like that?

The old school fighters were a different breed compared to these modern pussified MMA athletes.

ya this is a lot of BS and false legend building.

BJ was a guy gifted a lot of glory fights and who was not going to take nothing fights that did not help his legacy. He always wanted a big name and big pay day.

while I don't agree with MM not taking the fight with TJ, if TJ makes weight in his division, Jones was right to not take that fight with Chael at that point. Even now the biggest insults hurled at Jones on his resume are for 'padding his resume with wins over MW's because the division was so thin'.

I am one of Jones biggest haters on here but I won't defend the UFC trying to 'save their card' by offering Jones a zero value win with only downside if he lost (which he almost did via the toe btw). Fighters should not serve at the UFC whim to save the UFC money in extraordinary scenarios with no additional consideration for the fighter unless the fighter needs the money or exposure themselves.. That is some bullshit. Again that was a zero gain sitaution for Jones and a potential huge loss one. No fighter or Management team should just take that and allow the UFC to get the only gain.

 

[MikeMcMann]

GSP and his team knew what they were doing.

they greased on the exact position on his upper back that was crucial in BJ securing his rubber gaurd / high gaurd. It made BJ a sitting duck on the ground and Impossible for him to defend.

No, BJ wouldn't have won regardless..but It definitely effected the fight. Saying otherwise Is just ridiculous. It likely resulted In him taking far more damage than he otherwise would have on the ground.

It's a fight In which grappling Is a crucial factor, being greased up Is massive In such situations. Specifically being able to defend against strikes / tie your opponent up on your back.

I'm far from salty and I could really care less at this point, I'm only trying to be objective..but that was a very blatant case of cheating. There were at least 3-4 other fighters who commented on GSP being slippery as well during previous fights so It's not like this was the first time.

Taking nothing away from GSP and his career, but In this case..there's really no defending GSP.

So much dumb in this post.

Take this to the grappling forum and you will get laughed out.


Not once, NOT A SINGLE TIME, in the history of MMA or grappling has the guy who wanted to implement the control game benefited from grease.

GSP's entire game plan was to grab and control BJ standing and pin him against the cage and to put him on his back and keep him on the ground. Grease in no way benefits that game plan.

BJ's entire game plan was to avoid being clinched or taken to the ground and to box GSP up standing which is where he had his most success in the first fight. That game plan ONLY benefits from grease.


This idea that GSP and his team sat around and thought 'man we want to avoid BJ's rubber guard on the ground' and therefore grease is laughably dumb and again if you take it to any grappling forum or BJJ gym you will be literally laughed out of the room.

 

[Judoka1532]

Most of the world will never know

Yea I just wish he would have retired years ago.

 

[gono btw]

Ya no.

A decision can be split and not controversial. That is fact. Every one can agree the right call was made despite the split and that was the case here.

and no Renzo was not a relevant or quality fight at WW. He was 6 losses in 7 fights with the loss to BJ.

And fucking lol at the idea of building a resume on loses as long as they are good losses. That is not a legacy any fighter would want. Sorry.

Well, I dont know how a split cant be controversial...

About quality wins or losses, it´s called looking at the context and beyond the wiki W/L columns.

About these Renzo´s 7 fights, did u see who he fought?

 

[LukeSkyrocker]

Also his girlfriend is so fucking fine

I know, was hoping for pics

 

[Dbreiden83080]

To me the legacy of BJ Penn is whenever he was supposed to take off and go on this unbeatable Run. He lost a big fight. Over and over.

 

[gono btw]

To me the legacy of BJ Penn is whenever he was supposed to take off and go on this unbeatable Run. He lost a big fight. Over and over.

Yeah... but he took risks and D2BG (Dared 2 Be Great)... unlike your hero.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Yeah... but he took risks and D2BG (Dared 2 Be Great)... unlike your hero.

GSP was focused and all about his career. BJ was not.. . Did you watch UFC Primetime? BJ took 5 days to chill on a beach while GSP was training like a Navy Seal. Pretty easy to take big risks, when you don't really care about your career. Would you be nervous about taking a test you did NOT study for? His training habits were laughable..

 

[Judoka1532]

Records aside, there's a handful of fighters that come along who when their fights are coming up there's an electricity in the air that's like - oh shit, this is about to go down.

Some fighters amass impressive records, become legends in their own right, but they never have that special thing.

Chuck Liddell had it.

Anderson Silva had it.

Conor McGregor has it.

BJ Penn had it.

Penn at his best was a marvelous thing to be around for.

I just havn't ever been too impressed with BJ Penn in the sense of calling him one of the greatest fighters in ufc history. Record aside (since it's not that good) I never really thought he stood out like GSP, Silva, Conor, or Liddell (as you mentioned). I don't have a vendetta out against BJ, I think he's a great guy and was a good fighter in his day. But when I see his name being compared to the aforementioned and others like jon jones, cormier, etc.., I just don't see the similarity. What do you think stands out about him? I suppose I should go back and watch some more of his older fights.

I see a guy like Nate Diaz as a better fighter than BJ Penn. I use nate as an example bc he has a similar record and style. Nate nor BJ are really physical specimens either. But when Nate fights I get the feeling he's never out of a fight. If you look at his losses, he's hardly ever been finished. Even in his losses you get the feeling he would eventually win if the fight didn't have time limits. He's a very durable guy who is well rounded and has a winner's mentality. He never really gets exhausted like a lot of other fighters.

 

[gono btw]

GSP was focused and all about his career. BJ was not.. . Did you watch UFC Primetime? BJ took 5 days to chill on a beach while GSP was training like a Navy Seal. Pretty easy to take big risks, when you don't really care about your career. Would you be nervous about taking a test you did NOT study for? His training habits were laughable..

Well, since he saw this LW going up to challenge him, if No Rush really cared about his legacy, he would have made it a point to emulate him and try to make some noise against a [legit] heavier opponent/champ @ MW.

No interest in doing it? Wanting to protect his career? Fine. But then dont come asking for GOAT Status when undersized champs already paid their dues and D2BG.

 

[boingyman]

BJ will always be a legend.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Well, since he saw this LW going up to challenge him, if No Rush really cared about his legacy, he would have made it a point to emulate him and try to make some noise against a [legit] heavier opponent/champ @ MW.

No interest in doing it? Wanting to protect his career? Fine. But then dont come asking for GOAT Status when undersized champs already paid their dues and D2BG.

Dude GSP was all about building his legacy at WW, where he is not even a big man. 185 walking around you got 200 pound WW's.. GSP was all about hard work and training. BJ was never about any of that. It is easy to say "Fuck it, I will move up and fight this guy" when you don't really give a shit.. His career was never that important to him. The GSP rematch was the biggest fight of all time back then. He didn't even train hard for that..

 

[gono btw]

Dude GSP was all about building his legacy at WW, where he is not even a big man. 185 walking around you got 200 pound WW's.. GSP was all about hard work and training. BJ was never about any of that. It is easy to say "Fuck it, I will move up and fight this guy" when you don't really give a shit.. His career was never that important to him. The GSP rematch was the biggest fight of all time back then. He didn't even train hard for that..

It´s not only about BJ who tried to D2BG.

Other champs, like SAKU GOAT, took risks, Fedor and Igor were undersized fighters who fought much bigger legit HWs.

Even Randy tried to D2BG.

In Boxing, no educated fan would consider someone with GSP´s career as a potential GOAT, when u had guys like SRR or Hank who challenged much bigger champs.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

It´s not only about BJ who tried to D2BG.

Other champs, like SAKU GOAT, took risks, Fedor and Igor were undersized fighters who fought much bigger legit HWs.

Even Randy tried to D2BG.

In Boxing, no educated fan would consider someone with GSP´s career as a potential GOAT, when u had guys like SRR or Hank who challenged much bigger champs.

GSP has a greater legacy than all of those mentioned other than maybe Fedor, and as you know that is a hotly debated topic. So what is your point exactly? That fighter bigger men is crucial to legacy. It is not.. Jones is also in the GOAT talk. Spent his whole career smashing LHW.

 

[gono btw]

GSP has a greater legacy than all of those mentioned other than maybe Fedor, and as you know that is a hotly debated topic. So what is your point exactly? That fighter bigger men is crucial to legacy. It is not.. Jones is also in the GOAT talk. Spent his whole career smashing LHW.

Well, u know... this is like your opinion dude.

Go ask the educated boxing fans if someone like RJJ, even at his peak when he dominated his division, could be considered a GOAT above SRR or Hank....

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Well, u know... this is like your opinion dude.

Go ask the educated boxing fans if someone like RJJ, even at his peak, could be considered a GOAT above SRR or Hank....

Boxing has a thousand weight classes man.. A little bit different. And MMA is the sport of fighting with so many variables. And GSP did go up. Did you see it?

 

[gono btw]

Boxing has a thousand weight classes man.. A little bit different. And MMA is the sport of fighting with so many variables. And GSP did go up. Did you see it?

Dude... when SRR & Hank went up, there were far, far fewer weight classes. Go check.

About No Rush "going up" against the other clown... No, I didnt bother watching... Laughable.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Dude... when SRR & Hank went up, there were far, far fewer weight classes. Go check.

About No Rush "going up" against the other clown... No, I didnt bother watching... Laughable.

Well he went up.. Sort of defeats your entire POV.. You know?

 

[gono btw]

Well he went up.. Sort of defeats your entire POV.. You know?