BJ Penn was truly something special

Dbreiden83080 said:
He is a 2 weight world champion. Right? Do you even know what you are arguing? Go back and re-read son..
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See my previous post.

GSP fans cant even be rational...

For one, I could admit my own GOAT was once schooled by a fighter [Allan Goes].

Fans like u are so braindead that they cant admit nuthin...[sigh]
 
gono btw said:
See my previous post.

GSP fans cant even be rational...

For one, I could admit my own GOAT was once schooled by a fighter [Allan Goes].

Fans like u are so braindead that they cant admit nuthin...[sigh]
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According to you

A fighters legacy in terms of being a GOAT is somewhat based on did they move up and fighter bigger men? He did. He won a world title at 85. So what is your problem?
 
Dbreiden83080 said:
According to you

A fighters legacy in terms of being a GOAT is somewhat based on did they move up and fighter bigger men? He did. He won a world title at 85. So what is your problem?
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Switch the light off when you´re done, dude.

sleeping snake.gif
 
LouisBolanos said:
Not really, BJ's mentality was pretty common place among old school fighters. Remember the Gracies started UFC with no intention of creating weight classes. Their whole thing was to demonstrate the ability to beat opponents of any size. Fighters from BJ's era mostly did not care about size discrepancy, the Gracies didn't give a fuck, neither did Fedor or pretty much any of the Japanese fighters in pride (Sakuraba, Minowaman). The current generation fighters are just massively pussified.
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Counterpoint: it’s not the current generation of fighters that are pussies. They are afraid to lose becuase one loss hurts their brand significantly. If a fighter loses once or twice the public loses interest in them immediately now. Look at Doo ho Choi. How many people are talking about him now after just two losses?

This is why the new generation doesn’t take chances, because they have to deal with the shitty new fans who think you’re a bum becuase you lose. Guys like BJ and the other old greats took chances because they had little to lose, and the consequences of losing was significantly less
 
FlyThaiMMA said:
Counterpoint: it’s not the current generation of fighters that are pussies. They are afraid to lose becuase one loss hurts their brand significantly. If a fighter loses once or twice the public loses interest in them immediately now. Look at Doo ho Choi. How many people are talking about him now after just two losses?

This is why the new generation doesn’t take chances, because they have to deal with the shitty new fans who think you’re a bum becuase you lose. Guys like BJ and the other old greats took chances because they had little to lose, and the consequences of losing was significantly less
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depends... Guys like Royce or Renzo or Royler had a lot to lose, their family reputation, but since they had a deep belief in their skill set...

Besides, spots in Tournaments back then were disputed too...
 
MikeMcMann said:
this post nails it.

As i have said 'The Penn will fight anyone, anywhere meme' is way to over played.

He got gifted the Hughes fight and I don't think any top LW would not have jumped at that opportunity at the time particularly with a shut down LW division. Of course him winning it was impressive and he deserves the praise he got for it.

My view again is that fight however ruined him as he got addicted to the immense praise he got for over coming a 'larger opponent' and that, and him liking how he did not have to train as hard to fight at WW or above was the beginning of his downfall. Penn was a guy prior who could and did go 5 rounds in grueling grappling exchanges but he relied more on his boxing against the bigger guys.

Had Penn instead took his win over Hughes and went after the 3 other org's Top LW's and instead beat and won those top guys and took those belts, which I think he could have, his legacy would have been like GSp or Anderson at WW or MW respectively. One of deep divisional GOAT dominance that along with his Hughes win would keep in the GOAT talks today if not at the top as his win in the division above over Hughes would have been seen as bigger than GSP win over Bisping for the MW crown and both are bigger than anything Anderson did in the division above.

But yes BJ was key to drawing an audience to this sport during its formative years with some great performances and a pleasure to watch when he was on.
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It could also be that it was a bit of a psychological crutch for Penn. when he was at 155 he was always the big favorite in every fight. when he fought bigger guys I think it relaxed him because he knew that as long as he fought reasonably well, it was viewed as a success because he was the smaller guy. Basically, he didn't have to win the fight to be viewed as a winner. I think that intetwines with your point above.

Not to harp on it, but I think that overcoming the mental barrier to be a champ was a real challenge to BJ when he was young. I mean, there is no way that he should have lost to Jens and had a draw against Uno.

Of course, when Penn returned to 155 in the UFC he showed that he had matured as a fighter and had a great run as champ.

I agree with your point about Penn fighting at 155 in other orgs once he left the UFC. It is entirely possible that PRIDE didn't want him because they preferred Gomi to be the champ (& Penn beat him, of course). It could be that Penn preferred to drift around fighting bigger guys. I really don't know the story. But I would have preferrred to see that version of Penn in those crazy Pride Bushido cards. that would have been fucking amazing.
 
I like BJ but that was some funny tippy toe fighting there at the end.
 
He might be one of the only fighters, whose mother appeared before the athletic commission to assist in pleading his case.
 
Judoka1532 said:
I see a guy like Nate Diaz as a better fighter than BJ Penn.
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I was a GSP fan during the GSP vs Penn rivalry. Penn and GSP fans hated each other more then any other fan base. But this is one of the stupidest things i have ever read on Sherdog. Nate is not half the fighter Penn was
 
gono btw said:
Yeah..like many others unimpressed with No Rush´s L&P...
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What did Penn do? Poke GSP in the eye so he couldn't see? Hell GSP was winning the first before the eye poke blinded him.

Its just funny that the only judge that scored the fight for Penn was the worst judge in UFC history and one of the biggest jokes in MMA
 
613 said:
What did Penn do? Poke GSP in the eye so he couldn't see? Hell GSP was winning the first before the eye poke blinded him.

Its just funny that the only judge that scored the fight for Penn was the worst judge in UFC history and one of the biggest jokes in MMA
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Big deal. What did No Rush do except BS TDs & his classical L&P?

What is funny indeed is that GSP fans are so retarded that they would never admit anything against their hero.

U thought No Rush won? No probz. Others felt the opposite. Doesnt mean they or u are wrong. Only means it was potentially controversial.

Can u understand this?
 
gono btw said:
It´s not only about BJ who tried to D2BG.

Other champs, like SAKU GOAT, took risks, Fedor and Igor were undersized fighters who fought much bigger legit HWs.

Even Randy tried to D2BG.

In Boxing, no educated fan would consider someone with GSP´s career as a potential GOAT, when u had guys like SRR or Hank who challenged much bigger champs.
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such a dumb argument. HW is the only division where as the guys get bigger the fights get easier. All the best HW's have been between 244-260lbs in their prime. That is where Fedor was. As you fight the bigger guys you are actually almost always getting easier fights. If you doubt that name the top 5 HW's and their prime weights.

Imagine if when Brock came into the UFC he only fought guys 50Lbs or heavier than him. Shertards like you would say ZOMG what a beast,he only fights bigger guys when in fact he would be ducking his toughest fights of guys around 245-260lbs.
 
MikeMcMann said:
such a dumb argument. HW is the only division where as the guys get bigger the fights get easier. All the best HW's have been between 244-260lbs in their prime. That is where Fedor was. As you fight the bigger guys you are actually almost always getting easier fights. If you doubt that name the top 5 HW's and their prime weights.

Imagine if when Brock came into the UFC he only fought guys 50Lbs or heavier than him. Shertards like you would say ZOMG what a beast,he only fights bigger guys when in fact he would be ducking his toughest fights of guys around 245-260lbs.
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hmmm... u must have repeated 5 or 6 times this "such a dumb argument." in this thread...

U understand that people can have different views, right?
 
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