BJJ Black belt promotion criteria

[asian-glow]

As an aging grappler, I struggle with this too. I'm coming up on 42, 1 stripe brown belt that has been training various martial arts my whole life but BJJ/Judo focus for the last 10. I had a real good roll with a 28 year old purple today. We weren't trying to kill each other but I felt his strength and speed. I had to work in the roll, I wasn't toying with him by any means. Anyone watching would say it was pretty even I'm sure. I had some sweeps, some throws, got to the back and briefly threatened a sub or 2. So when I am a black belt will things be the same? I think yes. I'll be 44-45 by then, slower, weaker but I have veteran tricks, sneaky setups and I've seen a lot in my training that I pass in when I teach. I'm sure a world class competition level blue belt would wreck me. So does that mean I should never get a black belt?

If there were no ranks or you were already a black belt would you quit? Serious question.

 

[ShindoNinja]

If there were no ranks or you were already a black belt would you quit? Serious question.

You mean am I waiting to get a black belt? Nah bro. I’d still train if I were a white belt. I love jiujitsu and I’ve learned so much. It’s nice to give back and teach the young guns. I can still fend them off. I just know it’s inevitable. Father Time is an asshole and he’s coming for all of us. There is no beating him.

 

[KikoJones]

I spent 4 years at brown (partly my own doing) and competed fairly often.

My teammate who never competed and spent half that time at brown was promoted with me.

Meh, who cares? I didn’t give a damn. I congratulated him, gave him a slap on the back, and went about my business.

As I grow older I have less tolerance to nonsense. I tell those around me to not worry about what others do. You're not judged by the action of others.

Ask how you can improve, show up, embrace the grind (#porrada everyday) and be a decent human being.

 

[Quebec Nick]

As an aging grappler, I struggle with this too. I'm coming up on 42, 1 stripe brown belt that has been training various martial arts my whole life but BJJ/Judo focus for the last 10. I had a real good roll with a 28 year old purple today. We weren't trying to kill each other but I felt his strength and speed. I had to work in the roll, I wasn't toying with him by any means. Anyone watching would say it was pretty even I'm sure. I had some sweeps, some throws, got to the back and briefly threatened a sub or 2. So when I am a black belt will things be the same? I think yes. I'll be 44-45 by then, slower, weaker but I have veteran tricks, sneaky setups and I've seen a lot in my training that I pass in when I teach. I'm sure a world class competition level blue belt would wreck me. So does that mean I should never get a black belt?

One of our top student is a 45 years old brown belt, he gets wreck regularly by our 2 top purple belts, they are very slick, they dominate most of the competitions they enter and they have 20 pounds on the brown belt and are 15 years younger.

Still, the brown belt went to a local competition and they put him with 2 black belts, and he looked great against guys is size and more in his age range.

My coach just received is black belt at 46, he's been fighting is entire life and is one of the local pionneer of grappling and MMA. He just started the gi a little too late. Some of the guys he gave their first grappling classes have been black belts 4-5 years before he got his. He's not an unbeatable force, he's 170 pounds, but we all respect the knowledge he has, the way he teaches and the human being he his.

And in local comp against black belts his size and age range he's doing well enough

 

[Quebec Nick]

If there were no ranks or you were already a black belt would you quit? Serious question.

Stripes and belts are always fun to get

But I have a very good relationship with my coach, we roll at least once or twice a week. We also come early to drill stuff, he knows what I'm working on and he gives me a lot of tips. So I know where my developpement is at.


I think that at the beginning it was more important to me, right now I could live in a full no gi environnement with no belts

 

[plataoplombo]

As a tenth degree white belt, I think a BB should be very technical and be able to win competitions. Of course as people age, skill decline but for a young guy, you should be good. At competitions they're representing the school and in the gym they should be someone the lower belts can gain knowledge from and aspire to be. I would be turned off if I'm hanging in there with a BB. Where I've grappled, I can hold my own with certain blue belts, lose to purples, and get smeshed by brown and black belts.

 

[Your Noodly Master]

I can hold my own with certain blue belts, lose to purples, and get smeshed by brown and black belts.

That's how it should be. We had a black belt visit sometimes that I killed when I was blue. We were both in our 40s but he was older. Older guys can lose speed, strength, etc, but this guy's technique was awful. How he got that black belt I'll never know.

 

[plataoplombo]

That's how it should be. We had a black belt visit sometimes that I killed when I was blue. We were both in our 40s but he was older. Older guys can lose speed, strength, etc, but this guy's technique was awful. How he got that black belt I'll never know.

Yeah. If I was a BB people would expect me to be a really good and if I couldn't then its like "WTF man".

 

[TroldeAnsigt]

Was just talking about this with the wife last night. We're both black belts (I'm first degree, she's an ignorant nothing-degree), and she's recently coming back into the game after recovering from having our kid. She loathes the fact that she still has to wear the black belt. I don't get what her fuss is. The following viewpoints emerge.

She is of the philosophy that for all BJJ belts, there should be both a technical knowledge requirement (the ability to successfully land techniques in live rolling, i.e., you should have hit 2 sweeps from ____ guard, a submission from ____guard, etc.), and a general beatdown requirement (i.e., brown belts should always smash white belts, no excuses). I asked her if that meant that people who gained a belt but lost ability due to injury, time out, life getting in the way of training, etc., got demoted. She said yes, and that she wishes she could get demoted, as being out for a year+ has dulled her skills, and she feels like a bad representation of the school for being a rusty black belt. She likened it to the Sumo ranking system, where you move up and down based on performance, and that even a Yokozuna has to give up their spot if they start to degrade. Women are brutal.

I'm a hippy by comparison, because when I was a young boy I saw a Helio Gracie interview where he said belts are for demonstrating your ability to understand and transmit BJJ, and that fighting ability is a separate thing. If you want proof of fighting ability, that's what tournament medals/MMA belts are for. Those document your fighting ability within that period of time, not your belt. An older, less athletic 4th degree black belt is going to have some cool shit to tell you. Just because he isn't fast enough to pull it off on the black belt adult competitors doesn't mean he is worse at BJJ than the youngsters. And when you're looking for someone to teach you things, it helps to have a color code of "who can teach me more cool shit" as opposed to "who is a fucking monster."

The flaw in her approach is that, practically, it's a fucking nightmare. Tournaments would be insane. Sandbagging would be worse than ever. Unless people started having their tournament wins/losses tracked I guess into some kind of promotion points system ala Judo. Small people, women, and the elderly will live their lives fairly low on the totem pole. Getting injured or taking time off means having to start the process over, you'll probably never return. Constantly have to smesh the lower belts. But it would make for some hard ass grapplers. Also then we'd start having to recognize the grappling skill carryover from other arts (i.e., wrestling, judo, etc.), and fast tracking them for promotion. That's practically admitting their art is just as valid is BJJ, which is such haram it makes me want to start a second BJJihad. I'm kid, but it's another facet to consider.

The flaw in my approach is it turns into a TMA if you're not careful, where ability to perform ceases to matter, which is the beginning of the end. It seems more fair, but it also leans more towards arm chair grappling. It also leads to situations like you're discussing above.

I think Judo has a pretty cool concept, but I don't know how you'd scale it with the amount of time required for a black belt in BJJ, and the vast body of (constantly changing) techniques. Hell, we'd have to agree on what "basics" are first, and god help us all for that. Though the idea of a BJJ Self-Defense Kata to shut up the self-defense nerds would be neat.

I agree with you more than your wife.
People who put value into gym rolls dont understand that its practice. In practice we dont go 100% because we want to work new stuff and hone our skills. Then to test ourselves we go to competitions to get the experience and to prove ourselves.
Getting demoted is a stupid idea, life happens to us all. Your wife puts too much value into her belt, that is only there to keep her pants up.

 

[Nnedd]

Was just talking about this with the wife last night. We're both black belts (I'm first degree, she's an ignorant nothing-degree), and she's recently coming back into the game after recovering from having our kid. She loathes the fact that she still has to wear the black belt. I don't get what her fuss is. The following viewpoints emerge.

She is of the philosophy that for all BJJ belts, there should be both a technical knowledge requirement (the ability to successfully land techniques in live rolling, i.e., you should have hit 2 sweeps from ____ guard, a submission from ____guard, etc.), and a general beatdown requirement (i.e., brown belts should always smash white belts, no excuses). I asked her if that meant that people who gained a belt but lost ability due to injury, time out, life getting in the way of training, etc., got demoted. She said yes, and that she wishes she could get demoted, as being out for a year+ has dulled her skills, and she feels like a bad representation of the school for being a rusty black belt. She likened it to the Sumo ranking system, where you move up and down based on performance, and that even a Yokozuna has to give up their spot if they start to degrade. Women are brutal.

I'm a hippy by comparison, because when I was a young boy I saw a Helio Gracie interview where he said belts are for demonstrating your ability to understand and transmit BJJ, and that fighting ability is a separate thing. If you want proof of fighting ability, that's what tournament medals/MMA belts are for. Those document your fighting ability within that period of time, not your belt. An older, less athletic 4th degree black belt is going to have some cool shit to tell you. Just because he isn't fast enough to pull it off on the black belt adult competitors doesn't mean he is worse at BJJ than the youngsters. And when you're looking for someone to teach you things, it helps to have a color code of "who can teach me more cool shit" as opposed to "who is a fucking monster."

The flaw in her approach is that, practically, it's a fucking nightmare. Tournaments would be insane. Sandbagging would be worse than ever. Unless people started having their tournament wins/losses tracked I guess into some kind of promotion points system ala Judo. Small people, women, and the elderly will live their lives fairly low on the totem pole. Getting injured or taking time off means having to start the process over, you'll probably never return. Constantly have to smesh the lower belts. But it would make for some hard ass grapplers. Also then we'd start having to recognize the grappling skill carryover from other arts (i.e., wrestling, judo, etc.), and fast tracking them for promotion. That's practically admitting their art is just as valid is BJJ, which is such haram it makes me want to start a second BJJihad. I'm kid, but it's another facet to consider.

The flaw in my approach is it turns into a TMA if you're not careful, where ability to perform ceases to matter, which is the beginning of the end. It seems more fair, but it also leans more towards arm chair grappling. It also leads to situations like you're discussing above.

I think Judo has a pretty cool concept, but I don't know how you'd scale it with the amount of time required for a black belt in BJJ, and the vast body of (constantly changing) techniques. Hell, we'd have to agree on what "basics" are first, and god help us all for that. Though the idea of a BJJ Self-Defense Kata to shut up the self-defense nerds would be neat.

I can understand the way your wife feels, and I would maybe even endorse it, if the impressions of non lifer martial artists were the criteria. But, this is a world of people who have been training for thousands of hours. Anyone who's put in that time knows what the score is. If I come into a new gym and roll with a guy and smash him, I don't immediately think his belt is bogus. I think that life is long and hard and complicated, and everyone gets old, and if he has that belt, he earned it.