Movies BLACK WIDOW (Debuts with $80 Million at the U.S. Box Office)

[Omegaboy13]

Its gonna bomb. They’re just putting out a bunch of shit

Yeah, not a fan of a solo Black Widow movie. Just seems pointless. It's only getting done to appease the people bitching about the lack of solo female superhero films.

Has nothing to do with male/female. Hawkeye does not need a movie either. Neither does Nick Fury. There are plenty of Marvel characters to make movies about, makes no sense wasting time in exploring C characters.

There honestly just aren't many female heroes that it would make sense to make solo films for. They're mostly on teams. And they have prominent positions on those teams.
Beisdes Captain Marvel, the only 2 others I could think of that would make sense would be She-Hulk and Spider Woman.

Pretty much this. I don’t need to explore some tertiary character. They’re just injecting female leads everywhere for the sake of it, maybe because of the social pressure to do so. Who knows why. If SJ wasn’t such a lifeless actress I’d concede a little bit more.

Black Widow belongs on Netflix with Jessica Jones and the Punisher.

 

[Da_Rev_Ong]

Yeah, not a fan of a solo Black Widow movie. Just seems pointless. It's only getting done to appease the people bitching about the lack of solo female superhero films.

Has nothing to do with male/female. Hawkeye does not need a movie either. Neither does Nick Fury. There are plenty of Marvel characters to make movies about, makes no sense wasting time in exploring C characters.

There honestly just aren't many female heroes that it would make sense to make solo films for. They're mostly on teams. And they have prominent positions on those teams.
Beisdes Captain Marvel, the only 2 others I could think of that would make sense would be She-Hulk and Spider Woman.

You do realize that Iron man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk were considered "C" level characters when their movies were made because Marvel's greater rockstar IPs were (and many still are) under the license of other Movie studios? Marvel has done wonders with the leftovers in the back corner of their trash cans than their Distinguished Competition has, but that is another topic all together.

I do see a role where this movie fits perfectly, and it is totally outside of the "diversity seeking" identity politics that Hollywood suffers under now. Considering the impending purchase of the Fox IPs, this would the perfect movie to re-introduce the X-Men (or mutants) and the Fantastic Four to the Marvel Cinematic fold. The Black Widow is a long standing character that has had interactions with multiple heroes and villains across the Marvel comic-book landscape. Unless they want to pull a full reboot of the MCU after Avengers 4 (which I hope they do not do), they're going to need a tidy way to re-introduce those IPs to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. A run-in with a young Logan, Professor Xavier, a certain Latverian royal or the genius couple who live in the Baxter Building can all be made mention of and VOILA! You have the seeds for a new X-Men or Fantastic Four movie without having to recognize or pander to the previous films.

I think many of the folks in this thread are thinking a bit too narrow-mindedly on this one.

 

[moreorless87]

You do realize that Iron man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk were considered "C" level characters when their movies were made because Marvel's greater rockstar IPs were (and many still are) under the license of other Movie studios? Marvel has done wonders with the leftovers in the back corner of their trash cans than their Distinguished Competition has, but that is another topic all together.

I do see a role where this movie fits perfectly, and it is totally outside of the "diversity seeking" identity politics that Hollywood suffers under now. Considering the impending purchase of the Fox IPs, this would the perfect movie to re-introduce the X-Men (or mutants) and the Fantastic Four to the Marvel Cinematic fold. The Black Widow is a long standing character that has had interactions with multiple heroes and villains across the Marvel comic-book landscape. Unless they want to pull a full reboot of the MCU after Avengers 4 (which I hope they do not do), they're going to need a tidy way to re-introduce those IPs to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. A run-in with a young Logan, Professor Xavier, a certain Latverian royal or the genius couple who live in the Baxter Building can all be made mention of and VOILA! You have the seeds for a new X-Men or Fantastic Four movie without having to recognize or pander to the previous films.

I think many of the folks in this thread are thinking a bit too narrow-mindedly on this one.

A flashback film would be a decent way to introduce the X-men as existing in the background although I'm still not entirely sure I see Marvel doing that in the short term. The X-men to me feel like they've been a little played out and leaving things a few years would have more anticipation, I spose you could have hints in a film like this awhile before actually doing anything.

My guess is it will be more a story of her turn from mercenary to hero, maybe featuring Hawkeye and some kind of more modest villain. Nothing wrong with that really as long as its well written/directed.

 

[taurus]

To be fair though even if it might not be needed for the films sucess I do think theres a MUCH bigger issue with a lack of female directors in Hollywood blockbusters than their is a lack of quality female roles.

Honestly, the stats (for female directors) are appalling. Women are grossly underrepresented. But my point was that taking a female director solely for the fact she is a female is plain wrong.

 

[taurus]

You do realize that Iron man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk were considered "C" level characters when their movies were made because Marvel's greater rockstar IPs were (and many still are) under the license of other Movie studios? Marvel has done wonders with the leftovers in the back corner of their trash cans than their Distinguished Competition has, but that is another topic all together.

I do see a role where this movie fits perfectly, and it is totally outside of the "diversity seeking" identity politics that Hollywood suffers under now. Considering the impending purchase of the Fox IPs, this would the perfect movie to re-introduce the X-Men (or mutants) and the Fantastic Four to the Marvel Cinematic fold. The Black Widow is a long standing character that has had interactions with multiple heroes and villains across the Marvel comic-book landscape. Unless they want to pull a full reboot of the MCU after Avengers 4 (which I hope they do not do), they're going to need a tidy way to re-introduce those IPs to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. A run-in with a young Logan, Professor Xavier, a certain Latverian royal or the genius couple who live in the Baxter Building can all be made mention of and VOILA! You have the seeds for a new X-Men or Fantastic Four movie without having to recognize or pander to the previous films.

I think many of the folks in this thread are thinking a bit too narrow-mindedly on this one.

Cap, Hulk and Iron Man C level characters?

No offense, but that is

Spiderman, F4, X-men, Captain A, Daredevil, Hulk and Iron Man were always A level characters. If you said some lesser known X-men, Deadpool, GotG, Vision and such, yeah, your argument stands. Hell, even Iron Man is by some considered to be a B level. But Cap and Hulk were never C level.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

You do realize that Iron man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk were considered "C" level characters when their movies were made because Marvel's greater rockstar IPs were (and many still are) under the license of other Movie studios? Marvel has done wonders with the leftovers in the back corner of their trash cans than their Distinguished Competition has, but that is another topic all together.

I do see a role where this movie fits perfectly, and it is totally outside of the "diversity seeking" identity politics that Hollywood suffers under now. Considering the impending purchase of the Fox IPs, this would the perfect movie to re-introduce the X-Men (or mutants) and the Fantastic Four to the Marvel Cinematic fold. The Black Widow is a long standing character that has had interactions with multiple heroes and villains across the Marvel comic-book landscape. Unless they want to pull a full reboot of the MCU after Avengers 4 (which I hope they do not do), they're going to need a tidy way to re-introduce those IPs to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. A run-in with a young Logan, Professor Xavier, a certain Latverian royal or the genius couple who live in the Baxter Building can all be made mention of and VOILA! You have the seeds for a new X-Men or Fantastic Four movie without having to recognize or pander to the previous films.

I think many of the folks in this thread are thinking a bit too narrow-mindedly on this one.

None of those characters are C characters. They weren't as poplular as Superman or Spiderman prior to the MCU movies, but they aren't shit tier characters. Iron man and Black Widow are not remotely on the same level.
They are long time characters that have been extremely important in the Marvel comic universe. They have DECADES of interesting stories in comics.

I'm not saying that Marvel can't make a good movie out of BW, I'm saying I would rather they spent their time and resources on better characters. We get 2 or 3 Marvel movies a year at best, wasting one of them on Black Widow is stupid.
There's too many better, more important characters to explore.
And those characters would make more sense in introducing guys like the Xmen and F4 than Black Widow.

 

[Da_Rev_Ong]

Cap, Hulk and Iron Man C level characters?

No offense, but that is

Spiderman, F4, X-men, Captain A, Daredevil, Hulk and Iron Man were always A level characters. If you said some lesser known X-men, Deadpool, GotG, Vision and such, yeah, your argument stands. Hell, even Iron Man is by some considered to be a B level. But Cap and Hulk were never C level.

All off Cap, Iron Man, Thor, and Hulk comic book runs were all considered for cancellation at one time or another during the decade leading up to Iron Man debuting. They were not rock star characters. Those characters that were rock stars had their movie rights sold to Fox and Sony to keep Marvel from going bankrupt prior to Marvel being sold to Toy Biz in the late 90's. You might know some lore, but you don't know anything about the company's history otherwise you'd put the .gif away.

When Kevin Fiege was crafting his vision for the MCU, he was doing it with left-overs and hand-me-downs. Otherwise, we'd be 2 movies into a FF series instead of the Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

[Da_Rev_Ong]

...

I'm not saying that Marvel can't make a good movie out of BW, I'm saying I would rather they spent their time and resources on better characters. We get 2 or 3 Marvel movies a year at best, wasting one of them on Black Widow is stupid.
There's too many better, more important characters to explore.
And those characters would make more sense in introducing guys like the Xmen and F4 than Black Widow.

See that part in bold? We've all heard that same thing about Captain America, Doctor Strange, Ant-Man and Gaurdian's of the Galaxy before they came out. But they've all been successful, and well received. Marvel hasn't gone full SJW on anyone (just yet - I do recognize how the comics are going and I fear they will eventually go that way), so what's the problem with giving an already established character their own movie? We don't have to waste time with an origin story, so why not?

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Which we've all heard about Captain America, Doctor Strange, Ant-Man and Gaurdian's of the Galaxy before they came out. But they've all been successful, and well received. Marvel hasn't gone full SJW on anyone (just yet - I do recognize how the comics are going and I fear they will eventually go that way), so what's the problem with giving an already established character their own movie? We don't have to waste time with an origin story, so why not?

As I said in my post, because wasting a movie on Black Widow delays the movies of other BETTER characters being made.
All of the characters you mentioned had niches and roles to play. And they are BIG characters in the comics. Black Widow is not
What is a Black Widow movie going to add?
It would be different if BW hadn't been introduced to the MCU yet, but she's been in like 5 or 6 Marvel movies already. I don't need an origin story on her at this point, especially at the price of another character.
The "SJW" whatever has little to do with this for me. I'm sure the movie will be good because Marvel is doing it, but I don't want a BW movie when we could have a Shehulk, or whatever else movie instead

 

[Da_Rev_Ong]

Also, I think a lot of you are forgetting the other purpose of releasing Movies in the MCU. That purpose is simply to allow, set up, or give way to establish new characters and even more heroes into the MCU. None of the current stars that they have now are going to be around for ever. They're going to get too old or too expensive to keep on contract. They're always going to need new bodies/heroes to fill the slate. That's always going to be built upon already established characters.

All I'm saying is that there is a real, valid business reason why this movie may be happening outside of an evil Hollywood SJW conspiracy. Would it really hurt anyone to consider that for a moment?

 

[Da_Rev_Ong]

What is a Black Widow movie going to add?

If done correctly, the ability to introduce the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, Doctor Doom, and a shit load of mutants, and aliens that have been under Fox control seemlessly to the established MCU. If y'all remember your comic book history, she has history with members of both those teams, and has been influential behind the scenes as a spy all over the world. It's one of the reasons why they made SHIELD so central to the initial Phase 1 and Phase 2. Almost everything was introduced or made relevant through SHIELD. Same can be done with Black Widow.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

If done correctly, the ability to introduce the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, Doctor Doom, and a shit load of mutants, and aliens that have been under Fox control seemlessly to the established MCU. If y'all remember your comic book history, she has history with members of both those teams, and has been influential behind the scenes as a spy all over the world. It's one of the reasons why they made SHIELD so central to the initial Phase 1 and Phase 2. Almost everything was introduced or made relevant through SHIELD. Same can be done with Black Widow.

Lol dude, as I said, I have faith in Marvel. They CAN make a good movie. That is not what my concern is.

What I am saying is, is that Black Widow does not need to be the character to make these connections. It's not that she CAN'T, it's WHY? There's no reason to force this, and find a way to make it work.

There are better characters that haven't been introduced yet. 5 or 6 movies is good enough for a minor character like Black Widow.
I'll watch a BW movie. I can enjoy a BW movie. But I'm not excited for it.
A better, new character could have served the same purpose and with better results

 

[Da_Rev_Ong]

Lol dude, as I said, I have faith in Marvel. They CAN make a good movie. That is not what my concern is.

What I am saying is, is that Black Widow does not need to be the character to make these connections. It's not that she CAN'T, it's WHY? There's no reason to force this, and find a way to make it work.

...

Cool... We agree on some points. But how is it forced when you are using a character that is already there and already has history with other characters being introduced within the comic books?

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Cool... We agree on some points. But how is it forced when you are using a character that is already there and already has history with other characters being introduced within the comic books?

Marvel has a limited amount of movies they make a year. Instead of forcing a Black Widow movie, it makes much more sense to give a new character a movie.
I have no doubt they can make a good BW movie work, and connect it to other characters, but instead of trying to force that, just do it with a new, unexplored character. I'm not interested in Black Widows origin--especially if the choice is between that, or another new Marvel character

 

[Da_Rev_Ong]

Marvel has a limited amount of movies they make a year. Instead of forcing a Black Widow movie, it makes much more sense to give a new character a movie.
I have no doubt they can make a good BW movie work, and connect it to other characters, but instead of trying to force that, just do it with a new, unexplored character. I'm not interested in Black Widows origin--especially if the choice is between that, or another new Marvel character

So just to make sure I'm hearing this correctly:

It is completely "forcing" Marvel's hand to use a character that is already there and established within the MCU to create a movie that will most likely introduce new characters to the MCU, than it is to adapt a new origin story for a brand new character that no one has no idea how the audiences will react to, in order to further introduce new characters to carry on into the future of the MCU. Is that right?

Question: When you need to replace a lightbulb in your house, do you use the one that is already there in your drawer ready to be plugged in, or do you run off to Home Depot and research new light bulbs that require the purchasing and installation of new light fixtures? Personally, I would think the later is more "forced" in nature than the former.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

So just to make sure I'm hearing this correctly:

It is completely "forcing" Marvel's hand to use a character that is already there and established within the MCU to create a movie that will most likely introduce new characters to the MCU, than it is to adapt a new origin story for a brand new character that no one has no idea how the audiences will react to, in order to further introduce new characters to carry on into the future of the MCU. Is that right?

Question: When you need to replace a lightbulb in your house, do you use the one that is already there in your drawer ready to be plugged in, or do you run off to Home Depot and research new light bulbs that require the purchasing and installation of new light fixtures? Personally, I would think the later is more "forced" in nature than the former.

Lol are you Scarlet's agent?
What I'm saying is pretty simple. I don't know why you're not getting it.

ONLY 2 to 3 Marvel movies are made a year.
And there are a ton of yet to be introduced Marvel characters.
Why would I want them introduced in a Black Widow movie instead of their own? She can cameo in THEIR movie to make the connection. But we don't need a BW movie going into her origins. We have seen enough of her in the MCU

 

[Zazen]

You do realize that Iron man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk were considered "C" level characters when their movies were made because Marvel's greater rockstar IPs were (and many still are) under the license of other Movie studios? Marvel has done wonders with the leftovers in the back corner of their trash cans than their Distinguished Competition has, but that is another topic all together.

I do see a role where this movie fits perfectly, and it is totally outside of the "diversity seeking" identity politics that Hollywood suffers under now. Considering the impending purchase of the Fox IPs, this would the perfect movie to re-introduce the X-Men (or mutants) and the Fantastic Four to the Marvel Cinematic fold. The Black Widow is a long standing character that has had interactions with multiple heroes and villains across the Marvel comic-book landscape. Unless they want to pull a full reboot of the MCU after Avengers 4 (which I hope they do not do), they're going to need a tidy way to re-introduce those IPs to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. A run-in with a young Logan, Professor Xavier, a certain Latverian royal or the genius couple who live in the Baxter Building can all be made mention of and VOILA! You have the seeds for a new X-Men or Fantastic Four movie without having to recognize or pander to the previous films.

I think many of the folks in this thread are thinking a bit too narrow-mindedly on this one.

Captain America Thor Ironman and Hulk were C level characters? Huh?

 

[Da_Rev_Ong]

Captain America Thor Ironman and Hulk were C level characters? Huh?

If they weren't they would have never been given to the the returning Image artists for the "Heros Reborn" pocket reboot in order to boost sales.

Spoiler

That would have saved us from this:

Ewww...

 

[Da_Rev_Ong]

Lol are you Scarlet's agent?
What I'm saying is pretty simple. I don't know why you're not getting it.

ONLY 2 to 3 Marvel movies are made a year.
And there are a ton of yet to be introduced Marvel characters.
Why would I want them introduced in a Black Widow movie instead of their own? She can cameo in THEIR movie to make the connection. But we don't need a BW movie going into her origins. We have seen enough of her in the MCU

I get it. I'm just saying what you're proposing may not be as practical or business savvy as the folks in charge of the MCU may be viewing it. Thus, the reason why a BW movie is being made.

 

[Fluffernutter]

So, is she still a skrull in disguise or not?

At least thats been my theory