Break down the Philly Shell defense for me.

ModernWarrior

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I have not seen many boxers use it. To be honest, I first learned about from playing Fight Night 1, 2, and 3(this was before I started training).

I do not watch boxing often, only every now and then because I am way more into mma. I still watch a good amount of boxing.

So what are the basics of the Philly Shell style defense? Thhe only fighter I have seen use this very effectively is Floyd Mayweather. How does it work? I know the point is to roll your shoulder with their punch, but what is it that makes it effective when used properly?

Why is it not taught in most boxing gyms, I know at my gym we never work on it, and from what I have asked friends who have trained other places they did not really work on it there either.

Can someone just basically break it down for me, how it is used, how to use it effectively, maybe drills I can work while sparring ect.

I appreciate any feedback, thanks.
 
i posted this too a while ago and somebody chewed me out about it!:) . but ur post has things like punctuation and capital letters, so maybe ull have more luck. watch james toney too, hes a master of the philly shell that only exists in video games.
 
parallax86 said:
i . but ur post has things like punctuation and capital letters, so maybe ull have more luck.

Wow, novel idea, punctuation, full word spelling, and capital letters.

Totally off topic, but spellcheck is dumbing down the next generation.

On topic: I'd like to also see an explanation of the Philly Shell Defense.
 
I would too. I've tried to look it up on the internet but I have not had any luck. Maybe it isn't taught a lot because it probably requires a lot of quickness. Where are you Vilo?
 
You're talking about the "hitman" style stance? Shoulder rolling the punches? Keeping one hand low, the other high?
 
He primarily relied a "peek-a-boo" or "clam-shell" defense, which consisted of him allowing punches to land on his arms, elbows and gloves which he kept held tightly to his cheeks and ribcage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ike_Quartey

best google could do =(
 
good thread question

i too am very curious about this defense
 
Never heard it called the "philly shell" but oh well. I read this thread before school this morning and it was on my mind all day. Rory, one of my trainers, uses this style very effectively so I have some limited experience with it, though I don't practice it myself, this is just what I've observed and found worked for him in sparring and worked against him when I'm in the ring with him.

Just want to say that most guys shouldn't even consider this style, while James Toney and Mayweather have had huge success with it (and De La Hoya even toys with it sometimes), those guys are the elite of the boxing world. This may not be too coherent as I'm just typing off of the top of my head and whatever goes into this post is just what popped into my thoughts at the time. Okay, here goes...

"Philly Shell"

basic things to note:

- Left hand held just above the waist, around stomach-height, held across the midsection (sometimes held at 90 degrees but not always) so that your left fist is nearly touching your right elbow

- right hand held high, you should be easily able to hold your chin between your thumb and pointer finger. Your elbow should be a couple of inches from the right of your belly button and very tight to your body

- Bury your chin in your left shoulder and roll it slightly forward

- your stance should be very "Sideways" (for boxers this is the norm but MMA guys may not be familiar with it so much - not saying you should use this in MMA of course hah), and you should carry your back foot somewhat in the bucket (slightly sideways)

- Very mobile stance, keep a "thumbtack under your heels" (i.e. don't plant your feet but you're not exactly on your toes either, there should be enough room for a thumbtack to fit under there). That isn't to say this style is restricted to outside fighting, James Toney makes great use of it on the inside, but it is primarily a defensive/counter-punching style and movement/footwork are both integral to good defense

- Keep your head in line or slightly outside of your opponent's left shoulder to further frustrate their attempts to establish the right hand when you're in close. This also works to put "pressure without punching" on your opponent, which will make them feel obligated to punch at such a close range. With your head outside of their left shoulders, slipping the jab is a small, easy movement, and their right hand is often not a viable shot in this position, so you're relatively safe. Still, being so close to them, they'll often feel obligated to throw leather (even in a less-than-ideal position like the one they're now in) which means more countering opportunities as they over-reach and get frustrated

some benefits I've noted with my limited experience with this style:

- jabbing from the waist (well not quite but it's from way down low) is very sneaky and will often catch your opponent and throw him off as it is a punch coming from below his field of vision. The punch you don't see is the one that hurts you, so a stiff jab can do some damage here as well as score consistently

- Left arm, being held so low, acts as an effective "shield" against body attacks (i.e. any efforts to hit that spleen as was discussed recently in another thread)

- inside fighting makes their body accessible to your short left hook. It won't be an overly powerful punch because you'll be somewhat crowded, but a) you'll score and b) body punches are about PLACEMENT not power, so don't think it won't hurt 'em. If you can create distance well with your left shoulder in addition to your "body shield" low-left, combined with effective use of the shoulder roll, it means you have little to worry about from their right side at all (where your left hook will be digging) other than the uppercut

- very solid defense if you can manage the shoulder roll, advanced head movement and right hand parry (however, often the shoulder roll will leave the punch glancing off of the crown of your head. It won't hurt, but it MAY score. Some of the advanced head movement tricks i.e. turn your turn away from a punch to move your chin out of range actually make the punch look more damaging that it is so be mindful that you will be undamaged physically, but it may hurt you in the judges eyes)

- big countering opportunities. The shoulder roll defense is used best to defend your opponent's cross and then twisting back with a right hand of your own (or an uppercut if you're in close) followed by a left hook to the body (as their right hand may be slow coming back, you could hit the liver and freeze them)

possible weaknesses to exploit (stuff that I've found that works when faced with these guys):
- If faced with this style, work their left shoulder HARD. Slam hooks and stiff jabs into the meat of their shoulder (doubling up from shoulder/head works nicely for either punch), being mindful of their right hand (turn your punches over fully to force your shoulder up to cover your chin against the cross). Try to keep outsider of their left shoulder (they'll be trying to same so it can end up you two jockeying for that sweet spot) so that it is aligned with your own left hand. This puts their "sneaky" low left in plain sight, right infront of you, forcing it to be your focus (considering the right hand is now less of a problem because you're so far to their left side) so you won't get caught and suprised by it. If you want to throw a right hand, that's fine and definitely does it's damage, just be wary of their shoulder roll/right hand counter - it's their bread and butter.

Eventually after a round or two of concentrating blows on that left shoulder, you'll "numb" their shoulder and blunt it's effectiveness, possibly even totally shutting out their jab and hook.

When you're working their shoulder, you aren't scoring, so these need to be power punches or they'se just a waste of your time/effort. Your goal here is DAMAGE, not points

- Use a consistent jab to occupy their right hand. They may not be as quick countering your jab with their left because it has to travel further than normal, so exploit that. Just watch out for the right hand parry/straight right hand counter. Mix in feints and hooks off of the jab to overload their right hand's workload and you'll land with some regularity

- Target the body often and with BAD INTENTIONS. Dig the straight right to the body lots! You'll either hit their body (awesome), or worst case scenario is that you'll whack their low left arm, which only helps build up the damage you're trying to do and slow them down even more

- counter their jab with your right hand. It's a bit toughter to roll their shoulder to absorb the right hand when they're retracting the jab with the same arm, not to mention the right hand parry/straight right hand is a great often unexpected parry in itself

All I can think of for now hope some of this is helpful and makes sense
 
I use it in "hands only" sparring against new people. My body turns more to the right (I'm not as "square" to my opponent). I kind of like it for throwing jabs to the gut, I don't really like to throw too many head shots on new people. It also makes for less targets for them, and having my right hand up near my head, but across my face makes throwing cross; kinda different, but fun.

All that said, I really don't have any idea on what I should really be doing, and if I used against any of the more competitive guys, they'd fucking murder me. It's just something to do for fun.
 
James Toney....that's all you need to go on.
 
Nice post MacRae. Sounds like something I will have to toy around with.
 
i think Gatti tried to use it against Mayweather and therefore was punished with lightning fast right hands...

or maybe he just dropped his left hand out of laziness...

dont know! ^^
 
Beautiful post, MacRea. I used to use it (mainly when I got too tired to hold my hands high) and it was pretty effective.
 
Brandon MacRea said:
Never heard it called the "philly shell" but oh well. I read this thread before school this morning and it was on my mind all day. Rory, one of my trainers, uses this style very effectively so I have some limited experience with it, though I don't practice it myself, this is just what I've observed and found worked for him in sparring and worked against him when I'm in the ring with him.

Just want to say that most guys shouldn't even consider this style, while James Toney and Mayweather have had huge success with it (and De La Hoya even toys with it sometimes), those guys are the elite of the boxing world. This may not be too coherent as I'm just typing off of the top of my head and whatever goes into this post is just what popped into my thoughts at the time. Okay, here goes...

"Philly Shell"

basic things to note:

- Left hand held just above the waist, around stomach-height, held across the midsection (sometimes held at 90 degrees but not always) so that your left fist is nearly touching your right elbow

- right hand held high, you should be easily able to hold your chin between your thumb and pointer finger. Your elbow should be a couple of inches from the right of your belly button and very tight to your body

- Bury your chin in your left shoulder and roll it slightly forward

- your stance should be very "Sideways" (for boxers this is the norm but MMA guys may not be familiar with it so much - not saying you should use this in MMA of course hah), and you should carry your back foot somewhat in the bucket (slightly sideways)

- Very mobile stance, keep a "thumbtack under your heels" (i.e. don't plant your feet but you're not exactly on your toes either, there should be enough room for a thumbtack to fit under there). That isn't to say this style is restricted to outside fighting, James Toney makes great use of it on the inside, but it is primarily a defensive/counter-punching style and movement/footwork are both integral to good defense

- Keep your head in line or slightly outside of your opponent's left shoulder to further frustrate their attempts to establish the right hand when you're in close. This also works to put "pressure without punching" on your opponent, which will make them feel obligated to punch at such a close range. With your head outside of their left shoulders, slipping the jab is a small, easy movement, and their right hand is often not a viable shot in this position, so you're relatively safe. Still, being so close to them, they'll often feel obligated to throw leather (even in a less-than-ideal position like the one they're now in) which means more countering opportunities as they over-reach and get frustrated

some benefits I've noted with my limited experience with this style:

- jabbing from the waist (well not quite but it's from way down low) is very sneaky and will often catch your opponent and throw him off as it is a punch coming from below his field of vision. The punch you don't see is the one that hurts you, so a stiff jab can do some damage here as well as score consistently

- Left arm, being held so low, acts as an effective "shield" against body attacks (i.e. any efforts to hit that spleen as was discussed recently in another thread)

- inside fighting makes their body accessible to your short left hook. It won't be an overly powerful punch because you'll be somewhat crowded, but a) you'll score and b) body punches are about PLACEMENT not power, so don't think it won't hurt 'em. If you can create distance well with your left shoulder in addition to your "body shield" low-left, combined with effective use of the shoulder roll, it means you have little to worry about from their right side at all (where your left hook will be digging) other than the uppercut

- very solid defense if you can manage the shoulder roll, advanced head movement and right hand parry (however, often the shoulder roll will leave the punch glancing off of the crown of your head. It won't hurt, but it MAY score. Some of the advanced head movement tricks i.e. turn your turn away from a punch to move your chin out of range actually make the punch look more damaging that it is so be mindful that you will be undamaged physically, but it may hurt you in the judges eyes)

- big countering opportunities. The shoulder roll defense is used best to defend your opponent's cross and then twisting back with a right hand of your own (or an uppercut if you're in close) followed by a left hook to the body (as their right hand may be slow coming back, you could hit the liver and freeze them)

possible weaknesses to exploit (stuff that I've found that works when faced with these guys):
- If faced with this style, work their left shoulder HARD. Slam hooks and stiff jabs into the meat of their shoulder (doubling up from shoulder/head works nicely for either punch), being mindful of their right hand (turn your punches over fully to force your shoulder up to cover your chin against the cross). Try to keep outsider of their left shoulder (they'll be trying to same so it can end up you two jockeying for that sweet spot) so that it is aligned with your own left hand. This puts their "sneaky" low left in plain sight, right infront of you, forcing it to be your focus (considering the right hand is now less of a problem because you're so far to their left side) so you won't get caught and suprised by it. If you want to throw a right hand, that's fine and definitely does it's damage, just be wary of their shoulder roll/right hand counter - it's their bread and butter.

Eventually after a round or two of concentrating blows on that left shoulder, you'll "numb" their shoulder and blunt it's effectiveness, possibly even totally shutting out their jab and hook.

When you're working their shoulder, you aren't scoring, so these need to be power punches or they'se just a waste of your time/effort. Your goal here is DAMAGE, not points

- Use a consistent jab to occupy their right hand. They may not be as quick countering your jab with their left because it has to travel further than normal, so exploit that. Just watch out for the right hand parry/straight right hand counter. Mix in feints and hooks off of the jab to overload their right hand's workload and you'll land with some regularity

- Target the body often and with BAD INTENTIONS. Dig the straight right to the body lots! You'll either hit their body (awesome), or worst case scenario is that you'll whack their low left arm, which only helps build up the damage you're trying to do and slow them down even more

- counter their jab with your right hand. It's a bit toughter to roll their shoulder to absorb the right hand when they're retracting the jab with the same arm, not to mention the right hand parry/straight right hand is a great often unexpected parry in itself

All I can think of for now hope some of this is helpful and makes sense

Post of the Year!!! Nothing to add.
 
Brandon MacRea said:
Never heard it called the "philly shell" but oh well. I read this thread before school this morning and it was on my mind all day. Rory, one of my trainers, uses this style very effectively so I have some limited experience with it, though I don't practice it myself, this is just what I've observed and found worked for him in sparring and worked against him when I'm in the ring with him.

Just want to say that most guys shouldn't even consider this style, while James Toney and Mayweather have had huge success with it (and De La Hoya even toys with it sometimes), those guys are the elite of the boxing world. This may not be too coherent as I'm just typing off of the top of my head and whatever goes into this post is just what popped into my thoughts at the time. Okay, here goes...

"Philly Shell"

basic things to note:

- Left hand held just above the waist, around stomach-height, held across the midsection (sometimes held at 90 degrees but not always) so that your left fist is nearly touching your right elbow

- right hand held high, you should be easily able to hold your chin between your thumb and pointer finger. Your elbow should be a couple of inches from the right of your belly button and very tight to your body

- Bury your chin in your left shoulder and roll it slightly forward

- your stance should be very "Sideways" (for boxers this is the norm but MMA guys may not be familiar with it so much - not saying you should use this in MMA of course hah), and you should carry your back foot somewhat in the bucket (slightly sideways)

- Very mobile stance, keep a "thumbtack under your heels" (i.e. don't plant your feet but you're not exactly on your toes either, there should be enough room for a thumbtack to fit under there). That isn't to say this style is restricted to outside fighting, James Toney makes great use of it on the inside, but it is primarily a defensive/counter-punching style and movement/footwork are both integral to good defense

- Keep your head in line or slightly outside of your opponent's left shoulder to further frustrate their attempts to establish the right hand when you're in close. This also works to put "pressure without punching" on your opponent, which will make them feel obligated to punch at such a close range. With your head outside of their left shoulders, slipping the jab is a small, easy movement, and their right hand is often not a viable shot in this position, so you're relatively safe. Still, being so close to them, they'll often feel obligated to throw leather (even in a less-than-ideal position like the one they're now in) which means more countering opportunities as they over-reach and get frustrated

some benefits I've noted with my limited experience with this style:

- jabbing from the waist (well not quite but it's from way down low) is very sneaky and will often catch your opponent and throw him off as it is a punch coming from below his field of vision. The punch you don't see is the one that hurts you, so a stiff jab can do some damage here as well as score consistently

- Left arm, being held so low, acts as an effective "shield" against body attacks (i.e. any efforts to hit that spleen as was discussed recently in another thread)

- inside fighting makes their body accessible to your short left hook. It won't be an overly powerful punch because you'll be somewhat crowded, but a) you'll score and b) body punches are about PLACEMENT not power, so don't think it won't hurt 'em. If you can create distance well with your left shoulder in addition to your "body shield" low-left, combined with effective use of the shoulder roll, it means you have little to worry about from their right side at all (where your left hook will be digging) other than the uppercut

- very solid defense if you can manage the shoulder roll, advanced head movement and right hand parry (however, often the shoulder roll will leave the punch glancing off of the crown of your head. It won't hurt, but it MAY score. Some of the advanced head movement tricks i.e. turn your turn away from a punch to move your chin out of range actually make the punch look more damaging that it is so be mindful that you will be undamaged physically, but it may hurt you in the judges eyes)

- big countering opportunities. The shoulder roll defense is used best to defend your opponent's cross and then twisting back with a right hand of your own (or an uppercut if you're in close) followed by a left hook to the body (as their right hand may be slow coming back, you could hit the liver and freeze them)

possible weaknesses to exploit (stuff that I've found that works when faced with these guys):
- If faced with this style, work their left shoulder HARD. Slam hooks and stiff jabs into the meat of their shoulder (doubling up from shoulder/head works nicely for either punch), being mindful of their right hand (turn your punches over fully to force your shoulder up to cover your chin against the cross). Try to keep outsider of their left shoulder (they'll be trying to same so it can end up you two jockeying for that sweet spot) so that it is aligned with your own left hand. This puts their "sneaky" low left in plain sight, right infront of you, forcing it to be your focus (considering the right hand is now less of a problem because you're so far to their left side) so you won't get caught and suprised by it. If you want to throw a right hand, that's fine and definitely does it's damage, just be wary of their shoulder roll/right hand counter - it's their bread and butter.

Eventually after a round or two of concentrating blows on that left shoulder, you'll "numb" their shoulder and blunt it's effectiveness, possibly even totally shutting out their jab and hook.

When you're working their shoulder, you aren't scoring, so these need to be power punches or they'se just a waste of your time/effort. Your goal here is DAMAGE, not points

- Use a consistent jab to occupy their right hand. They may not be as quick countering your jab with their left because it has to travel further than normal, so exploit that. Just watch out for the right hand parry/straight right hand counter. Mix in feints and hooks off of the jab to overload their right hand's workload and you'll land with some regularity

- Target the body often and with BAD INTENTIONS. Dig the straight right to the body lots! You'll either hit their body (awesome), or worst case scenario is that you'll whack their low left arm, which only helps build up the damage you're trying to do and slow them down even more

- counter their jab with your right hand. It's a bit toughter to roll their shoulder to absorb the right hand when they're retracting the jab with the same arm, not to mention the right hand parry/straight right hand is a great often unexpected parry in itself

All I can think of for now hope some of this is helpful and makes sense

Goddamn that's a good post!

For most people not blessed with outstanding athleticism, the philly shell = terrible idea.

Guys who are really good at it, however, are a bitch to hit. I took the same strategy as you recommend --- punch the shoulder and throw the right hand to the body. It's good to follow up the right hand to the body with the left hook too, since they will often try to bring their head back and straighten up after you pop their shoulder/body.
 
I commonly hear this as the Hitman stance, but damn brandon you nailed it.
 
I have heard it called Hitman and/or Philly Shell.

Thank you so much Brandon, that is everything I could have wanted to know about it. I really appreciate the info.
 
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