International Brexit latest just in: EU refuses further renegotiation

[WhitebeltXL]

Do you actually understand what deal May negotiated now? ITS A TEMPORARY DEAL.

Until you guys sign all FTA across the world you can then say 'sorry EU, we going for WTO'. That means hard border and playing by your own rules.

Your PM is buying time for this country to negotiate FTA, NOT to be stuck in this deal indefinitely.

If you FULL LEAVE now, you have no trade deals to be attached to. You need to start negotiating them, hence transition period. You will be jumping from one EU boat, to your own FTA boat. At the moment with no deal you will be jumping to water waiting for a boat. Or like I said before have a job to be lined up for you when you leave, not to leave and then wait for a job.

Can I be more clearer?

May's deal was complete and utter shit, they have been pushing for a temporary deal since mid 2017, It'll never be agreed on, especially when cunts like Macron say they'll ruin the deal if France doesn't receive special concessions and keep Britain in a "backstop" that has no formal end date.

The govt should've told the EU to fuck themselves, severe all ties and immediately start working on alternate trade agreements, rather than May's appeasement and pay out the arse approach.

 

[JDragon]

and keep Britain in a "backstop" that has no formal end date

Well then erect a domestic border in Ireland. Problem solved.

 

[Panmisiek]

May's deal was complete and utter shit, they have been pushing for a temporary deal since mid 2017, It'll never be agreed on, especially when cunts like Macron say they'll ruin the deal if France doesn't receive special concessions and keep Britain in a "backstop" that has no formal end date.

The govt should've told the EU to fuck themselves, severe all ties and immediately start working on alternate trade agreements, rather than May's appeasement and pay out the arse approach.

You still didn't read what I wrote...

Hard border in Ireland is inevitable. The May deal you got now postpones that until you agree FTA agreement around the world. EU does not expect you to be forever in this deal anyway. Its just to give assurances for businesses, thats all.

 

[WhitebeltXL]

As I have said before, I would be fine with this. Going back on the Brexit announcement will lead to ugly domestic political developments. The negotiated deal is the best you will get, but it is not a hard Brexit, which makes Brexiteers angry. So yes, you should go for hard Brexit, see where it leads you (spoiler: it's gonna suck major dick), and go from there.

Really tired of the Brexiteers blaming the EU for everything.

Can't disagree with anything you've said. May already shown all her cards, she's deluded to think that after all the negotiations and talks, she'd be able to go back and renegotiate the deal from November.

May wants to renegotiate, the EU doesn't. No deal is the only option. Since the original deal, the EU have been clear, that this is what we've agreed to and the UK is leaving March 2019. Now May wants to renegotiate because her domestic politics got all fucked up again. The world doesn't work like that I'm afraid and she's deluded/naive for trying, especially considering the concessions they already made for her.

 

[WhitebeltXL]

You still didn't read what I wrote...

Your trying to champion May's deal as a masterstroke to buy the UK more time. It's not, it's unpreparedness at it's best. I'm saying the UK should've sod the EU's rules from the get go and start negotiating deals immediately whilst severing ties, no need for "buying time".

We should've be acting as a non member with our own interests in mind immediately.

 

[JDragon]

Can't disagree with anything you've said. May already shown all her cards, she's deluded to think that after all the negotiations and talks, she'd be able to go back and renegotiate the deal from November.

May wants to renegotiate, the EU doesn't. No deal is the only option. Since the original deal, the EU have been clear, that this is what we've agreed to and the UK is leaving March 2019. Now May wants to renegotiate because her domestic politics got all fucked up again. The world doesn't work like that, I'm afraid and she's deluded/naive for trying.

Precisely. Now there is the option of no Brexit on the table, so in a twisted way, the UK could use that (revoke Article 50, invoke immediately again, clock starts ticking again with two years to go). But what would be the purpose of that?

The EU has been transparent in its dealings with the UK (maybe aside from the last minute trouble from Spain) and the real problem was that the UK was divided internally. And still is.

Basically, I hope everyone is realizing by now that economically, Brexit is just a horrible idea (for the EU, but especially for the UK). There is just no upside scenario and all hopes of 'Daddy' saving the UK via a favorable trade deal that is somehow superior to anything they would get as part of the EU are deeply delusional.

But at the same time, Brexit never was about the economy (despite all lies about the NHS). It was about identity first and foremost. And hard Brexit gives the UK the chance to achieve some of the targets on that front (I guess).

 

[Panmisiek]

Your trying to champion May's deal as a masterstroke to buy the UK more time. It's not, it's unpreparedness at it's best. I'm saying the UK should've sod the EU's rules from the get go and start negotiating deals immediately whilst severing ties, no need for "buying time".

We should've be acting as a non member with our own interests in mind immediately.

But you didn't. And wanted close ties with EU after all which now convinces everyone that will not happen when you leave. So man up, accept the deal, negotiate deals around the world and then show EU middle finger. That should be course of action, but if you want to have no deal, move half of your businesses to EU and then wait years, not months because thats how long to negotiate trade deals will take then its all up to you.

 

[JDragon]

Your trying to champion May's deal as a masterstroke to buy the UK more time. It's not, it's unpreparedness at it's best. I'm saying the UK should've sod the EU's rules from the get go and start negotiating deals immediately whilst severing ties, no need for "buying time".

We should've be acting as a non member with our own interests in mind immediately.

I don't think breaking international / contract law would have been a good move when trying to negotiate new treaties...

At the same time: if the UK had said hard Brexit it is, let's find a solution for Ireland and we are gonna pay what we still owe, I assume things could have gone more smoothly in that regard.

 

[Panmisiek]

I don't think breaking international / contract law would have been a good move when trying to negotiate new treaties...

At the same time: if the UK had said hard Brexit it is, let's find a solution for Ireland and we are gonna pay what we still owe, I assume things could have gone more smoothly in that regard.

Thats the whole point of that deal. EU and UK knows damn well that UK cant have trade deal with US (due to banned GMO foods and other regulated crap in Europe) while having a deal with EU. So its quite common sense that this the whole intention for UK to pull out of that deal once US FTA is negotiated.

 

[WhitebeltXL]

Precisely. Now there is the option of no Brexit on the table, so in a twisted way, the UK could use that (revoke Article 50, invoke immediately again, clock starts ticking again with two years to go). But what would be the purpose of that?

I wouldn't put it past this shambles to have that as an option.

Basically, I hope everyone is realizing by now that economically, Brexit is just a horrible idea (for the EU, but especially for the UK). There is just no upside scenario and all hopes of 'Daddy' saving the UK via a favorable trade deal that is somehow superior to anything they would get as part of the EU are deeply delusional.

In hindsight, I honestly think Brexit should've been null and void as soon as Cameron resigned. The vote was taken under the understanding that Cameron would remain PM, the domestic turmoil and leadership change that came afterwards as a result, no-one could've predicted and meant the UK started out negotiations with a faulty hand and ended up with an inexperienced lame dud ruling over a divided party (and country).

 

[JDragon]

In hindsight, I honestly think Brexit should've been null and void as soon as Cameron resigned. The vote was taken under the understanding that Cameron would remain PM, the domestic turmoil and leadership change that came afterwards as a result, no-one could've predicted and meant the UK started out negotiations with a faulty hand and ended up with an inexperienced lame dud ruling over a divided party (and country).

I believe that given today's much more accurate knowledge of what Brexit means among the populace, a second referendum would actually be the correct step from a democracy point of view. However, Brexiteers understandably want none of that, as there is a real risk of Brexit getting stopped then.

I do agree with your assessment that it essentially was a political mistake to take the referendum's outcome as a political imperative. It was a consultative referendum, and no one could have forced the government to act on it. Only when everyone seemed to agree that there was no going back on this did Brexit become an inevitability.

 

[WhitebeltXL]

It might be unpopular, but considering the circumstances of the last 2 years and all the information that came out in the interim, a second referendum wouldn't be that catastrophic an idea.

EDIT: I was just typing this before I saw your reply @JDragon

 

[WhitebeltXL]

I believe that given today's much more accurate knowledge of what Brexit means among the populace, a second referendum would actually be the correct step from a democracy point of view. However, Brexiteers understandably want none of that, as there is a real risk of Brexit getting stopped then.

I do agree with your assessment that it essentially was a political mistake to take the referendum's outcome as a political imperative. It was a consultative referendum, and no one could have forced the government to act on it. Only when everyone seemed to agree that there was no going back on this did Brexit become an inevitability.

May backed herself into a corner with her "brexit means brexit" speech, whilst (IMO) not truly believing it herself. She must have known of the gargantuan domestic minefield she'd have to traverse to enact any sort of Brexit (especially after recklessly calling a snap election resulting in the need to bribe the DUP to enable her to govern).

Honesty with the electorate right after the vote would've went a long way, they should have stated there was no formal planning in the event of a Leave vote, but the vultures (Johnson, Gove etc.,) were power hungry and had already started circling the carcass of Cameron's leadership.

 

[Mike Hagger]

Britain should just roll the dice, hard exit, leave the EU. There will be consequences but I am certain a powerful country like Britain will pick it up in time, its economy will adapt and recover.

Or,

Kill Brexit entirely and stay in the EU.

This in between situation is worse than either of the above options. Uncertainty and division is a distraction to other problems and not very great for the market.

 

[deise69]

Your trying to champion May's deal as a masterstroke to buy the UK more time. It's not, it's unpreparedness at it's best. I'm saying the UK should've sod the EU's rules from the get go and start negotiating deals immediately whilst severing ties, no need for "buying time".

We should've be acting as a non member with our own interests in mind immediately.

Go ahead, but who the fuck would want to work out a deal with perfidious albion ?


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...t-realistic-roberto-azevedo-a8505946.html?amp

It is “not realistic” to believe the UK can begin trading under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules the day after Brexit in March, the head of the intergovernmental group has said.

“I was a trade negotiator; I negotiated trade deals my whole life and I’m very realistic about how fast you can go with those deals.” WTO director-general Roberto Azevêdo told the BBC’s Today programme.

“The moment that other countries begin to sense an opportunity to increase their market share or increase a quota here or there, they are going to go for that.

The UK is done after a No Deal Brexit, Aprils Fools day will see the push for NI and Scotland to leave and the pound will crumble.

 

[RockstarChris]

Plenty of source in google, use your favourite website, left or right wing.

Looks like we having no deal after all. 2nd referendum is off the table as it would cause more division, and the only favourite to replace May is brexiteer Johnson.

May the blessing of God be upon you United Kingdom.

why does the UK need a deal to brexit? Here in murica we will just flip the bird and salute our flag.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

They should leave, give nothing, take nothing. The EU wont be able to do a thing since so many other key nations are going to be voting to leave as well.

Maybe Trump will easy trading on any nation that leaves the EU to help its death come faster.

As a plus Putin would almost certainly give Trump permission to build his Moscow tower if he did that.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

The people spoke for leave, without ifs and buts. Anything else is treason.

They voted 2 or 3 years ago, and some regions wanted to stay, so it's quite possible many would reverse their decision now that we see what a clusterfuck it's turned into.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

As a plus Putin would almost certainly give Trump permission to build his Moscow tower if he did that.

 

[Panmisiek]

They should leave, give nothing, take nothing. The EU wont be able to do a thing since so many other key nations are going to be voting to leave as well.

Maybe Trump will easy trading on any nation that leaves the EU to help its death come faster.

If EU really wants to piss UK off they can always check all the ships heading to UK through their territories. Day or 2 in a bay with ship full of fresh fruit and veggies surely wont do much harm.