International Brexit News & Discussion v7: British Parliament Rejects Theresa May's Brexit Deal (Again)

PM says White Paper delivers 'the Brexit people voted for' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44807741



Leave voters, is this what you voted for?

The main problem with leave is it means different things to different people , a common argument put forward for Leave was for a Norwayesque loose association with Europe which is less or more what this deal delivers (and I suspect its what were going to end up with) , the right wing of the Torys are never going to accept it which is fundamentally what the current kerfuffle is about the Torys playing out their internal party conflict on a National and International stage .
 
The main problem with leave is it means different things to different people

And that’s the problem. No one knows what they voted for. It was just leave. They should have had the plan first and had people vote on the plan.
 
The main problem with leave is it means different things to different people , a common argument put forward for Leave was for a Norwayesque loose association with Europe which is less or more what this deal delivers (and I suspect its what were going to end up with) , the right wing of the Torys are never going to accept it which is fundamentally what the current kerfuffle is about the Torys playing out their internal party conflict on a National and International stage .

Or the economic stupidity of it all. This was a great example of how dumb direct democracy can be.
 
And that’s the problem. No one knows what they voted for. It was just leave. They should have had the plan first and had people vote on the plan.

Yep leave could mean anything from softest of soft Brexits for some to a period of national isolation to others , I'm naturally eurosceptic but the referendum was about the shitest way imaginable to make(or not quite make) such a decision .
 
I don’t like Trump leveraging trade deals in return for us leaving the EU in a way that suits him, but I understand why he’d do it. Trump wants a weaker EU, and Britain leaving hastily would certainly weaken them (and us).

Nationalist Leaders look out for number 1 and number 1 only.

We have a choice now, become a fully fledged lap dog of the US or completely integrated into the EU (full on Euro currency, schengen etc.,)

Right now I’d take the US side, since I think historically they’ve been a much better ally. But this isn’t ideal.
 
They'll never leave, should be pretty clear to see for most.
 
The fact the argument for brexit amounts to 'no takesies backsies' is quite telling. Nobody can actually say how the desired outcome is going to be achieved. The argument we should do it because we said we would is incredibly dumb.
Disagree, going back on democracy is a hell of a lot worse than a bump in the economy.
 
Finance Industry Slams U.K.'s Plan for Trading Ties With EU
By Gavin Finch and Silla Brush | July 12, 2018



Britain’s financial industry slammed U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May’s latest proposal for Brexit, with some calling it the worst outcome possible.

In some of their most forthright comments since the referendum vote in 2016, industry executives said Thursday that her plan for a looser partnership with the European Union in financial services would drive up costs and hurt the wider economy. They also said it would leave the country losing easy access to its biggest market while also being at the mercy of the EU’s rules.

May is now leaning toward an agreement for the U.K. that will be similar to so-called equivalence -- existing arrangements the bloc has with other countries, based on maintaining similar regulations, according to the long-awaited White Paper on Brexit. As a result, U.K.-based banks would lose their unhindered access to EU markets.

“Today’s Brexit White Paper is a real blow,” Catherine McGuinness, the policy chairman for the City of London Corporation, which manages the British capital’s financial district, said in a statement. “With looser trade ties to Europe, the financial and related professional services sector will be less able to create jobs, generate tax and support growth.”

McGuinness said equivalence isn’t good enough and would need to be substantially enhanced. A key sticking point in the current equivalence setup is a potential worst-case scenario for the U.K.: the EU’s ability to unilaterally pull out of such an arrangement at short notice, undermining long-term planning for businesses.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-12/finance-industry-slams-u-k-plan-to-loosen-trading-ties-with-eu
 
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But with a specific plan Farrage et. al. wouldn't have been able to lie about the supposed benefits and speak out of both sides of their mouths about what would happen after the vote. There's a reason all the Brexiteers abandoned ship and didn't get try to lead the way once the vote went their way.
 
This guy is the biggest weasel in modern day UK politics, whether you're pro or anti Brexit. Let's see here:

- Instigates an entire country into charting a totally different course, because he supposedly has a better path
- Actually achieves his goal on putting his country on the better (according to him) path
- Promptly bails from the ship, abdicating any sort of leadership responsibilities, making the excuse that all he ever wanted was Brexit, he never wanted a part of reshaping Britain's future beyond that

This guy is a total bitch and now he has the nerves to complain. A real leader sets a different course through the storm and steps up to navigate the ship and those on it through the storm. Bitch Farage instead set the ship on course for the storm, and then jumped right on a life raft yelling "Good luck mates, see you on the other side once you're through!" I'm not even sure where I stand on Brexit, but I'm absolutely certain that Nigel Farage is a total bitch who quit and abandoned his cause once it was time to do the actual work.

Lmao what the fuck is this shit?

Adults went out to vote. Free will.

You sound like a bitter fascist that can’t accept democracy. He didn’t force them.

I love you guys though, I love reading your posts.
 
Disagree, going back on democracy is a hell of a lot worse than a bump in the economy.

One referendum does not a democracy make.

Remember brexiteers won the vote. This entire mess was predictable. This entire embarassing situation is squarely a result of tory party politics.
 
Lmao what the fuck is this shit?

Adults went out to vote. Free will.

You sound like a bitter fascist that can’t accept democracy. He didn’t force them.

I love you guys though, I love reading your posts.

What are you talking about? He didn't say anything about that Brexit was bad or that it shouldn't have been voted through, he even clearly says that he's not sure what he thinks about that. Your post addresses nothing that he wrote.

He criticized a politician for jumping ship after he won, trying to avoid all responsibility for the result, and that is now is saying that things are being run poorly and is considering getting back into the running. That has nothing to do with accepting democracy or not.
 
Lmao what the fuck is this shit?

Adults went out to vote. Free will.

You sound like a bitter fascist that can’t accept democracy. He didn’t force them.

I love you guys though, I love reading your posts.

Where in my post did I challenge the results or even challenge the idea Brexit? Read it again, this time without your partisan blinders where everything you don’t 100% agree with is fascist leftists nonsense. For the record, I’m making a comment on Farage and how he just ducked out the back door once the time came to do the actual work, ie figuring out how to move forward. That’s all, nothing fascist here, just calling him out on being a weasel instead of a real leader.
 
For the people in here who are pretending to be brexit experts. Do you guys realize how vague the brexit proposition was from the start. It never had much details at all. Now May is expected to make a deal with the EU where UK gets all the benefits of being in EU and none of the negatives. Leaving the EU trade wise and be the US bitch is not in our interest. I can understand from the US point of view in wanting to weaken EU by pushing UK out of it and turn the countries against each other. But none of the torries who are giving May shit are giving concrete solutions. If you watch them they all say the same vague shit. We should leave EU and set individual trades with countries across the world. OK, but with others knowing you are out of EU you are not in strong negotiation position exactly and then they all go back to the same statement about the US. We have special bond with America so they will give us good deal
 
I don’t like Trump leveraging trade deals in return for us leaving the EU in a way that suits him, but I understand why he’d do it. Trump wants a weaker EU, and Britain leaving hastily would certainly weaken them (and us).

Nationalist Leaders look out for number 1 and number 1 only.

We have a choice now, become a fully fledged lap dog of the US or completely integrated into the EU (full on Euro currency, schengen etc.,)

Right now I’d take the US side, since I think historically they’ve been a much better ally. But this isn’t ideal.
so you want to lower our food safety standards? want to lose all employment rights? etc

the worst possible outcome is a no deal and we sign up to a trade deal that aligns us with America. That is absolutely the worst possible outcome from Brexit!

if that happens dont be surprised if Scotland declares a UDI
 
I'm amazed that anyone is surprised by this kerfuffle. This was exactly the concern expressed before Brexit. Yet because people were worked into a frenzy over migrants they basically ignored all of the economic consequences of a Brexit.

The impact on the financial center was always going to be rough because London had become a major finance hub for Europe. Anything that disrupted the flow of talented workers, capital for projects and general business transactions would really hurt them. There is no Brexit that works for the finance sector unless it keeps the trade rules and much of the worker movement rules in place.

The UK should seek out a great deal with us but I think it's obvious from how Trump's behaved that he's not going to cut them any breaks just because they're across the pond. They'll have no leverage and Trump will back them into a corner.
 
I'm amazed that anyone is surprised by this kerfuffle. This was exactly the concern expressed before Brexit. Yet because people were worked into a frenzy over migrants they basically ignored all of the economic consequences of a Brexit.

The impact on the financial center was always going to be rough because London had become a major finance hub for Europe. Anything that disrupted the flow of talented workers, capital for projects and general business transactions would really hurt them. There is no Brexit that works for the finance sector unless it keeps the trade rules and much of the worker movement rules in place.

The UK should seek out a great deal with us but I think it's obvious from how Trump's behaved that he's not going to cut them any breaks just because they're across the pond. They'll have no leverage and Trump will back them into a corner.
yup, if you check the brexit thread from 2 years ago all the remainers were warning this would be a total shitshow that would ruin us.

but apparently all the fuckwits that supported it knew something we didnt
 
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