Economy 12 Years and $34 Billion Later, Canada's Trans Mountain Pipeline Expansion Is Set To Complete.

[gatchaman]

Follow along as opposition parties question the Trudeau government in the House of Commons. Today the government faced questions related to the carbon tax, Ontario election and the Trans Mountain pipeline plan.



These Question Periods are certainly interesting to watch, but am I the only one who think they should ban the reading prepared answers off a piece of paper that has nothing to do with the questions?

The Canadian Question Period is better than questioning in the American system.

Any Member of Parliament of any political party can directly question the Prime Minister on live television with no forewarning of the question.

Can you imagine Rand Paul being able to ask any question of Barack Obama without any warning and Obama having to answer live with no teleprompter?

 

[Arkain2K]

Any Member of Parliament of any political party can directly question the Prime Minister on live television with no forewarning of the question.

I realized about 5 minutes in that the people who "answered" these questions might not even listened to the questions at all. They simply reads some kind of slogan off their papers when it's their turn to respond, or deflect with something entirely unrelated that they memorized before hand.

There are about 50 repeated variations of "Why didn't the Federal government simply exert their authority to get the job done, instead of giving KM $4.5 billions that they didn't actually ask for, in exchange for a 60 years old pipeline?", and the answers are 50 repeated variations of "The Conservatives couldn't do it, but we did".

For once I'd like to see Mr. Speaker to bang his gavel and say "Sir, that's is NOT an answer!"

 

[gatchaman]

I realized about 5 minutes in that the people who answer these questions might not even listened to what the questions at all. They simply reads some kind of slogan off their papers when it's their turn, or deflect with something entirely unrelated that they memorized before hand.

There are about 50 repeated variations of "Why didn't the Federal government simply exert their authority to get the job done, instead of giving KM $4.5 billions that they didn't actually ask for, in exchange for a 60 years old pipeline?", and the answers are 50 repeated variations of "The Conservatives couldn't do it, but we did".

For once I'd like to see Mr. Speaker to bang his gavel and say "That's not an answer".

It's like they are doing several takes because they know at most only a few second sound bite will be watched on the evening news.

Countless actors taking the stage in hopes of being the next to come up with something like:
"This was their finest hour"
"Ask not what your country can do for you"
"Just watch me"

But more likely coming up with something to haunt them like:
"Read my lips: No new taxes."

 

[Gluteus Swag]

It's called question period, not answer period.

 

[Arkain2K]

It's called question period, not answer period.

What I didn't know is Canadians are paying $500,000,000 a year for this charade:

If Trudeau won’t answer the questions in question period, what’s the bloody point?
BY JOHN IVISON | MAR 1, 2018​

The Prime Minister responded by ignoring the question entirely and trumpeting the benefits of the budget “for the middle class and those working hard to join it.”

The Conservatives urged the Speaker to enforce the relevancy rule, on the basis that Trudeau had also ignored the long-standing custom of the House to at least provide an unsatisfactory non-answer on the same topic as the question.

But, as Speaker Geoff Regan pointed out, no such relevancy rule exists and the quality of the answers is up to ministers. “Members ought to understand that the Speaker is not empowered to comment on any of those things,” he said.

In which case – what is the bloody point?

Taxpayers spend more than $500 million a year so that the opposition parties can ask inane questions, designed to embarrass the government. The ruling party has now resolved to discount those questions entirely and use the opportunity to tout how brilliant it is at being the government.

http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...in-question-period-whats-the-bloody-point/amp

 

[strongstylekarate]

This will be a Canadian on Canadian crime.

 

[Arkain2K]

Former Bank of Canada governor: People 'are going to die' protesting Trans Mountain pipeline
Gordon Kent | June 13, 2018

The government must enforce rules allowing construction of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion even though opponents might die fighting it, former Bank of Canada governor David Dodge says.

“We’re going to have some very unpleasant circumstances. There are some people that are going to die in protesting construction of this pipeline. We have to understand that,” he said at an event Wednesday in Edmonton put on by law firm Bennett Jones.

“Nevertheless, we have to be willing to enforce the law once it’s there … It’s going to take some fortitude to stand up.”

The federal government agreed in May to buy the existing pipeline and the expansion project from Kinder Morgan for $4.5 billion after the company halted work because of uncertainty over when the development will be completed.

More than 200 people have been arrested during demonstrations outside Kinder Morgan’s Burnaby, B.C., work site.

Dodge wrote in a spring economic outlook he presented at the event that the impact of transportation bottlenecks on Canadian oil prices costs the economy about $10 billion a year.

He argued “NIMBY obstruction,” bolstered by growing community engagement in project reviews, allows Indigenous peoples, local groups and others to delay investment in projects even when they meet world-class environmental standards.

While he wouldn’t speculate in an interview how fatalities might occur during the Trans Mountain expansion, he said he’s worried about what will happen among the extremist minority among the pipeline foes.

“We have seen it other places, that equivalent of religious zeal leading to flouting of the law in a way that could lead to death … Inevitably, when you get that fanaticism, if you will, you’re going to have trouble,” he said.

“Are we collectively as a society willing to allow the fanatics to obstruct the general will of the population? That then turns out to be a real test of whether we actually do believe in the rule of law.”

Regulatory uncertainty is one of the biggest issues facing Canada’s energy industry at a time when the country should be exporting oil and gas and using some of the profits to help transition away from fossil fuels to fight climate change, Dodge said.

“We have to understand this is a resource where the long-term viability isn’t there, not because we’re running out of muck in the ground, but because we actually, collectively, as the globe, are going to have to stop using as much of this stuff.”

http://edmontonjournal.com/business...ntain-pipeline-former-bank-of-canada-governor

 

[Arkain2K]

First of 202 Trans Mountain pipeline protesters await sentencing
Fines stemming from later arrests will escalate from $500 to $5,000 as trials progress this summer
Mike Laanela · CBC News · Posted: Jun 18, 2018​

Protesters opposed to the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion project rallied outside B.C. Supreme Court in Vancouver on Monday morning​

Nine pipeline protesters found guilty Monday of criminal contempt by a judge in B.C. Supreme Court are facing fines of up to $3,000 or 150 hours of community service.

The protesters were among the first arrested on Burnaby mountain on March 17. They will be sentenced on June 28.

Earlier this month, more than a dozen protesters arrested on the same day pleaded guilty. They were fined $500 or 25 hours of community service, because they pleaded guilty before the case went to trial.

The expected sentences are based on recommendations put forward by the B.C. Prosecution Service in May, but it will be up to the judge to actually decide the sentences.

Those recommendation include a series of escalating fines and jail time based on when protesters were arrested and how they pleaded to the charges of criminal contempt.

Trials to run all summer

The trial, which wrapped up Monday, is the first in a series of trials scheduled to run over the summer and into the fall. A second trial of four more protesters was expected to get underway Monday afternoon.

In all, about 202 protesters were arrested at Kinder Morgan's worksite on Burnaby mountain. Those who were arrested after May 8 are facing fines of up to $5,000 or 14 days in jail.

Legal support co-ordinator Kris Hermes says no protesters have been arrested since the Crown raised the sentencing recommendation to seven days in jail for anyone arrested after May 28 even if they plead guilty before trial.

"The Crown is clearly escalating its attack on anyone protesting at the site and it has had an effect of eliminating protests outside the Kinder Morgan worksite," said Hermes.

About half a dozen protesters are also facing Criminal Code charges of assault, mischief and obstruction of a police officer, said Hermes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...ipeline-protesters-await-sentencing-1.4711127

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]

Canadians Are Split on Trudeau's Pipeline Purchase
By Josh Wingrove | June 19, 2018

​

Canadians increasingly back the Trans Mountain pipeline but are far less supportive of Justin Trudeau’s decision to buy it.

A poll published Tuesday by the Angus Reid Institute found Canadians are evenly split -- 37 percent say Trudeau made the right decision, 37 percent say the wrong decision and the rest were undecided. It’s a stark difference from the popularity of the pipeline expansion itself: 57 percent of Canadians support it while 26 percent oppose, the poll found. That gap has steadily widened in the firm’s polling.

The numbers signal Trudeau could pay a political price for his decision last month to buy the oil pipeline and its controversial expansion project from Kinder Morgan Canada Ltd. for C$4.5 billion ($3.5 billion). The poll found that in Ontario and Quebec, vote-rich provinces critical to the prime minister’s re-election chances next year, more people think it was the wrong decision than the right one.

There’s a gender divide too -- 48 percent of men say buying the pipeline was the right thing to do, versus just 26 percent of women. Among those who think it was a bad move, 64 percent said that’s because the government shouldn’t be in the business of owning pipelines.

Overall, 42 percent say the government has done a poor job handling the issue, compared with 39 percent who said they did a good job. The pipeline is opposed by the government of British Columbia, the west coast province to which Alberta crude would be delivered. Residents there are evenly split, at 38 percent each, on whether buying it was the right or wrong decision, the poll found. Both nationally and in British Columbia, a majority say the provincial government is wrong to oppose the project.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ther-200-billion-in-china-goods-as-spat-grows

 

[salamander]

I tried to rationalize my discontent with Trudeau by focusing on the bright side of his transcendently incompentent leadership....that his inevitable fuckups, despite Trumps best efforts to make him into a hero, will be what dangles his dumb ass from a lamppost come Nov 2019.

But this is a shot to the liver...

The Cleveland-based Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis has concluded that the planned purchase of Kinder Morgan's Canadian assets will boost the federal deficit by 36 percent.

That's based on an $11.6-billion estimate to complete the pipeline system.

Kinder Morgan earlier pegged the price at $7.4 billion to triple bitumen shipments to 890,000 barrels per day from Alberta to Burnaby, as well as construct associated infrastructure.

If the federal purchase is approved by the company's shareholders, it will also deliver a 637 percent gain to Kinder Morgan, according to the report.

“Canada is weakening its finances by taking on unlimited costs to buy an unneeded pipeline with an uncertain future and giving an unusual profit to a U.S. company,” IEEFA director and former New York state first deputy comptroller Tom Sanzillo said in a news release.

He then added: “Even though the government plans to sell the pipeline, such a deal would likely come at a loss given the unusual guarantees promised future buyers, weak market conditions, and the likelihood that the Canadian government would be selling the project under distressed conditions.”

You can read the full report here.

“The findings of this report demonstrate that the Canadian federal government acted hastily and irresponsibly to buy this ill-fated pipeline," Stand.earth strategy director Karen Mahon said. "The purchase price was unjustifiably high and now the government will likely be pushed to sell at a significant loss—making this a terrible financial deal for Canadians."

The Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis's stated mission "is to accelerate the transition to a diverse, sustainable and profitable energy economy".

Its funding sourcs include the Rockefeller Family Fund, Mertz-Gilmore Foundation, Energy Foundation, Moxie Foundation, Rockefeller Brothers Fund, and William and Flora Hewlett Foundation.
https://www.straight.com/news/10948...nder-morgan-pipeline-system-will-lift-federal

These days Its hurts too much to care

 

[Deleted member 263856]

I tried to rationalize my discontent with Trudeau by focusing on the bright side of his transcendently incompentent leadership....that his inevitable fuckups, despite Trumps best efforts to make him into a hero, will be what dangles his dumb ass from a lamppost come Nov 2019.

But this is a shot to the liver...



These days Its hurts too much to care

Highly biased report but I agree with them that if the feds want to sell they'll do so at a heavy loss.

 

[Arkain2K]

I tried to rationalize my discontent with Trudeau by focusing on the bright side of his transcendently incompentent leadership....that his inevitable fuckups, despite Trumps best efforts to make him into a hero, will be what dangles his dumb ass from a lamppost come Nov 2019.

But this is a shot to the liver...



These days Its hurts too much to care

You know what's funny though? Nobody can deny that Trans Mountain is an enormously profitable pipeline that is reliably generating hundreds of millions of dollars a year in revenue, and nobody can deny its strategic nature as Canada's only oil pipeline leading to tidewater for international exports.

It's a valuable and profitable asset, without a doubt.

And nobody is trusting this inept government to be able to build the expansion with anywhere near the projected budget, or operate this cash-cow profitably like it should, or able to sell it for more money than what they spent <Lmaoo>

 

[gatchaman]

I tried to rationalize my discontent with Trudeau by focusing on the bright side of his transcendently incompentent leadership....that his inevitable fuckups, despite Trumps best efforts to make him into a hero, will be what dangles his dumb ass from a lamppost come Nov 2019.

But this is a shot to the liver...



These days Its hurts too much to care

Rockefellers can bitch all they want. In the long run, increasing pipeline traffic to the Canadian coasts is good strategy.

From: https://globalnews.ca/news/4059563/...ehind-effort-to-stop-trans-mountain-pipeline/

Danielle Smith: Foreign interests behind effort to stop Trans Mountain Pipeline
...
Environmental groups – backed by the U.S.-based Tides Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation and other well-endowed U.S. funds – met in 2008 to hatch a strategy, called the Tarsands Campaign, to landlock Alberta oil and prevent it from reaching international markets to fetch international prices.
...



Trudeau should also seek to remove the guarantees in NAFTA of Canadian oil sales to the US.

From: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/com...ecret-it-lets-us-control-our-oil-mcquaig.html

NAFTA’s dirty secret: it lets U.S. control our oil: McQuaig
...
But there’s been virtually no attention to another section, Article 605, which effectively relinquishes control over our energy resources to Washington.

Article 605 was considered such an extreme infringement of national sovereignty that Mexico refused to accept it. Instead, Mexico demanded and was granted an exemption to that clause when it joined NAFTA in 1994.

Let’s shine a little light then on this mostly darkened corner of NAFTA: Article 605 limits the power of governments to cut back energy exports. So, for instance, Canada must continue to make available to Americans the same proportion of our energy as in the previous three years.
...

 

[salamander]

Rockefellers can bitch all they want. In the long run, increasing pipeline traffic to the Canadian coasts is good strategy.

From: https://globalnews.ca/news/4059563/...ehind-effort-to-stop-trans-mountain-pipeline/

Danielle Smith: Foreign interests behind effort to stop Trans Mountain Pipeline
...
Environmental groups – backed by the U.S.-based Tides Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation and other well-endowed U.S. funds – met in 2008 to hatch a strategy, called the Tarsands Campaign, to landlock Alberta oil and prevent it from reaching international markets to fetch international prices.
...



Trudeau should also seek to remove the guarantees in NAFTA of Canadian oil sales to the US.

From: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/com...ecret-it-lets-us-control-our-oil-mcquaig.html

NAFTA’s dirty secret: it lets U.S. control our oil: McQuaig
...
But there’s been virtually no attention to another section, Article 605, which effectively relinquishes control over our energy resources to Washington.

Article 605 was considered such an extreme infringement of national sovereignty that Mexico refused to accept it. Instead, Mexico demanded and was granted an exemption to that clause when it joined NAFTA in 1994.

Let’s shine a little light then on this mostly darkened corner of NAFTA: Article 605 limits the power of governments to cut back energy exports. So, for instance, Canada must continue to make available to Americans the same proportion of our energy as in the previous three years.
...

Foreign meddling? I don't really know much about the Rockerfellers or any of that Soro's stuff. I don't doubt it but I'm just not uip on the data.

No offense to my heritage, but this Nigeria-tier fuckery in terms of finacial mismanagement. I'm honestly shocked that no ones really making a big deal out of this. Or am i losing my mind?

You don't you think this could have been handled better?

 

[gatchaman]

Foreign meddling? I don't really know much about the Rockerfellers or any of that Soro's stuff. I don't doubt it but I'm just not uip on the data.

No offense to my heritage, but this Nigeria-tier fuckery in terms of finacial mismanagement. I'm honestly shocked that no ones really making a big deal out of this. Or am i losing my mind?

You don't you think this could have been handled better?

I don't have enough information to judge whether the feds bought the pipeline project for a good price. I also don't have enough information to exclude ulterior motives behind the Rockefeller-funded critique of the deal (the critique that you linked in your post), especially wihen the Rockefellars are also funding protests of the project.

It's too bad Kinder Morgan isn't an Albertan company. The pipeline could still be sold to an Albertan company once it gets built. This investment by the Feds is essentially a huge equalization payment to Alberta. It's too bad the money isn't going into the pockets of Albertans, albeit rich oil baron Albertans. Albertans should still be grateful.

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]