Can someone please explain how hunting is considered normal?

[TheGreatA]

What's so wrong with hunting compared to the treatment of cattle?

If anything, hunters are far more compassionate to animals than the millions of people who consume badly treated livestock.

Going to Africa to shoot exotic animals, that's obviously wrong. It's a left-over from an era when such things were actually meaningful (to the European aristocrat caste). Men used to go to foreign continents in order to challenge themselves, with relatively primitive weapons/medical treatment/nutrition. The risk of death during such a hunt, was very legitimate. The sailing, traveling and hunting alone, were dangerous enough, not to mention facing a large wild animal alone, with a single-shot rifle.

Today, all the challenge and danger has been eliminated from such a thing. Modern aristocrat/elitist wannabes do it, in order to feel like the men of the past. But in reality, they simply come off as pampered clowns.

 

[Teppodama]

At our most basic we are tool using hunter gatherers. Our intelligence eventually allowed us to do both more efficiently and effectively. We "gather" what we have cultivated and we "prey" on what animal husbandry and our tools has allowed us to domesticate. It's still hunting and gathering it's just a more efficient and effective means of doing so.

While I have no real issue with you FinalFight, it's very easy to take a stance such as yours when you come from a society, culture, economic point where the realities of survival as sanitized and nothing more than thought exercises.

Here's a question, do you grow your produce? Because if you don't and you don't eat animal products that you raise either that would mean you are completely dependent on the gathering/cultivation efforts of another for survival. That seems the most unnatural position to be in and the least sustainable of all.

 

[kpt018]

I think every person should have to gut an animal in school. We would probably have a few more vegetarians.

Hunting is written into our DNA.

I'm not a hunter. Been twice. Shot a buck once. Helped gut it. Glad I learned how.

I honestly think it is far more twisted to eat meat, if you have never actually killed and butchered an animal.

I agree with this. There is something very exciting when hunting/fishing for a lot of people and people take pride in their catch/kill. For many of us it is written into our DNA.

Now we are also intelligent beings capable of rational thought and we should also call factory farming the abomination that it is. We should stop the practice and use more ethical ways of farming meat. We should (and have) laws for hunting. You hope that people are ethical there too and don't torture animals and shit like that. We should not kill endangered species, etc..

 

[jonharrison]

Each person has their own set of ethics and morals. I don't expect everyone to share the same ethics and morals as I do.

The difference between a human and a bear is the bear doesn't have any alternatives for food. A coyote also doesn't have any alternatives but to kill to survive. Both the bear and the coyote would die without killing another animal and consuming its flesh. If a human being was in the same position then I don't see it as morally or ethically wrong.

I'm personally lucky enough to have access to food that doesn't involve eating the flesh of another sentient being. I like animals and that includes farm animals like pigs and cows. I wouldn't be consistent with my ethics and morals if I only chose to like certain animals, like dogs for example and ignore the suffering that farm animals go through.

In regards to animal vs human instinct/behaviour. I like watching videos about animals and I noticed something the other day that made me think. Domesticated carnivoros animals will not always kill another animal (one we would normally see as its prey) if they're not starving or know they will eventually be fed. For example, a dog can share the same home as a cat, but it won't kill the cat and eat it, but if it were in the wild and starving then it would kill it. It lead me to think that even some animals when they have alternatives will choose not to kill. So, it makes me wonder if killing is purely a survival mechanism and it isn't necessary when there is no need to kill to survive.

One last thing I will say is (imo) hunting for your food is a lot better from an ethical and moral stand point. At least the animal has had a chance at a free life and if lucky may evade the hunters and live another day. A farm animals fate was sealed before it was even born. It will never know what being free is like and one day be slaughtered.

Fair enough, I can appreciate an honest and intelligent discussion on hunting, and I appreciate your response. The truth is, for me, I could argue that meat is a necessity for myself simply because, living in a rural area, we don’t have a ton of protein substitutes in the grocery store, but that’s a cop out. I could make it work if I absolutely had to. The complete and honest truth is that I truly love the taste of meat. I feel this is derived from an evolutionary process, and while it may not be necessary for me to consume meat for nutrients, that love for the taste is, in my opinion, a natural urge and one that isn’t immoral to indulge in. Your point about domesticated animals is interesting, but one that isn’t all that unfamiliar to hunters. One of the big issues facing hunting currently is an image problem. The only images people see of hunters are the successful hunts, and the assumption is that hunters will shoot any animal they see without regards for circumstance. In my personal experience, though, all the hunters I know are guided by a strict code of ethics which allow for ethical treatment of game. No taking button bucks or yearlings, as they haven’t been through the rut to sire offspring, no taking a doe if a fawn is accompanying, and only taking a shot if you’re sure that you can make a clean, painless kill. One of the most moving things I’ve experienced was, one of my uncles, a former Marine, openly wept when he hit a deer a little high, wounding but not killing it. He put it down immediately after, but the thought that the animal needlessly suffered, that it wasn’t as quick a death as it could’ve been, genuinely upset him. Hunters, in my experience, tend to love the outdoors and nature and want to be apart of it. To live ethically within nature, and stay true to our biological heritage, but not to cause undue pain or suffering. There’s a tremendous amount of literature on ethical hunting that I encourage others to check out, if you’re curious.

 

[Badger67]

Cant wait to enjoy my merlot marinated wild boar roast.
Will also need to check my trapline this week. Thanks OP!!

 

[slivercord]

The funny thing is that those shooting in Africa your talking about cost a lot of money and the money goes towards helping those animals as well. It's not as simple as your making it out to be.

As for hunting in general some people see it as more humane then what they are doing to animals in factory farms. On top of that some people don't like the food those animals are being fed so they see hunting meat as better for you.

Don't play this game, it's done for the pleasure of killing those animals, not to help, and the money probably goes to a poacher, the guide that took the man who killed one of the oldest lions in the world got like 400 bucks.

 

[FinalFight]

Fair enough, I can appreciate an honest and intelligent discussion on hunting, and I appreciate your response. The truth is, for me, I could argue that meat is a necessity for myself simply because, living in a rural area, we don’t have a ton of protein substitutes in the grocery store, but that’s a cop out. I could make it work if I absolutely had to. The complete and honest truth is that I truly love the taste of meat. I feel this is derived from an evolutionary process, and while it may not be necessary for me to consume meat for nutrients, that love for the taste is, in my opinion, a natural urge and one that isn’t immoral to indulge in. Your point about domesticated animals is interesting, but one that isn’t all that unfamiliar to hunters. One of the big issues facing hunting currently is an image problem. The only images people see of hunters are the successful hunts, and the assumption is that hunters will shoot any animal they see without regards for circumstance. In my personal experience, though, all the hunters I know are guided by a strict code of ethics which allow for ethical treatment of game. No taking button bucks or yearlings, as they haven’t been through the rut to sire offspring, no taking a doe if a fawn is accompanying, and only taking a shot if you’re sure that you can make a clean, painless kill. One of the most moving things I’ve experienced was, one of my uncles, a former Marine, openly wept when he hit a deer a little high, wounding but not killing it. He put it down immediately after, but the thought that the animal needlessly suffered, that it wasn’t as quick a death as it could’ve been, genuinely upset him. Hunters, in my experience, tend to love the outdoors and nature and want to be apart of it. To live ethically within nature, and stay true to our biological heritage, but not to cause undue pain or suffering. There’s a tremendous amount of literature on ethical hunting that I encourage others to check out, if you’re curious.

Thank you for sharing your opinion and experiences. I think we can prejudge people without taking the time to try and understand their perspective. I don't judge all hunters the same and lump them all in the same category. I honestly think the hunter gatherers of the past would be horrified of what happens in the industrialized farming industry. The respect for the animals people eat is nonexistent in todays society, they're seen as walking slabs of meat. At least from a hunters perspective there is an aspect of respect and understanding.

One of my favourite scenes from a film is the elk hunt from Last Of The Mohicans and to me is an example of hunting done properly. Cheers

 

[method115]

Don't play this game, it's done for the pleasure of killing those animals, not to help, and the money probably goes to a poacher, the guide that took the man who killed one of the oldest lions in the world got like 400 bucks.

The person doing the hunting? Yes they are doing it for pleasure without a doubt. The people taking the money do you use to help with the conservation of these animals a lot of times. Anybody going on these hunts with poachers is a fucking idiot. Do you know what they do when they catch poachers in Africa? They fucking kill them on the spot no questions asked. I heard a story about a guy where he went hunting they found a poacher and the Africans just killed the guy right there.

 

[LMP]

This is sort of silly. Yes trophy hunting is dumb. Hunting and using the kill for food, also can help keep animal populations health.

Wasting disease is a very deadly In deer populations. It is important to remove infected animals to keep the disease from spreading to healthy animals.

It should be important to hunters to be good stewards of the land. Unfortunately there is a large number of asshole who will kill only to kill and leave perfectly good meat to lay.

 

[jefferz]

As well as enjoying being outdoors and the actual task of locating and shooting animals, it's simply feral pest eradication here.
Unfortunately settlers were stupid enough to introduce foreign species into a historically isolated ecosystem with no natural predators, and they've wreaked havoc.
Introducing diseases or other species in attempts at management has also been a risky, and occasionally disastrous (cane toads), plan.
Rabbits, cats, foxes, dogs, goats, deer, buffalo, horses, donkeys, camels and pigs... if only more people here would go out and shoot them.

Where the hell do you live where you have wild buffalo and camels.

 

[jonharrison]

Thank you for sharing your opinion and experiences. I think we can prejudge people without taking the time to try and understand their perspective. I don't judge all hunters the same and lump them all in the same category. I honestly think the hunter gatherers of the past would be horrified of what happens in the industrialized farming industry. The respect for the animals people eat is nonexistent in todays society, they're seen as walking slabs of meat. At least from a hunters perspective there is an aspect of respect and understanding.

One of my favourite scenes from a film is the elk hunt from Last Of The Mohicans and to me is an example of hunting done properly. Cheers

Oh I couldn’t agree more, I always like to hear others opinions, and have nothing against those who don’t like to hunt. I just want to make people aware that most hunters try their hardest to be ethical stewards of game, stay within their bag limits, use what they take, and limit pain and suffering. I really hope that hunting’s image can improve, not so everyone necessarily hunts, but just so people can have a more accurate picture of what motivates hunters. That its about being a part of nature and respecting our place in it, not just slaughtering animals for fun. I appreciate hearing your opinions and hope you have a great day!

 

[fordman7795]

Hunting is considered normal because we need food to survive. Just like you should diversify your stock portfolio, you should diversify what you eat. I eat whitetail deer venison nearly every day. It is incredibly good for you. Some days Ill mix it up and eat pig, chicken, duck, turkey, goose or cow. I feed both my girls venison a lot too. They are 2 and 4. My wife was concerned about me feeding venison to our oldest when she was 1 year old . She tried to call me out in front of our pediatrician. The Dr. shut her down instantly "Yes of course she can eat wild game, it is much more better for you than store bought meat".

 

[panamaican]

Are we talking about hunting hunting or sport hunting.

Hunting is normal. Many people, even in the U.S., still eat the meat that they kill (my dad had a patient who would pay us in meat that he hunted - weird but true). In some areas, hunting is used for population control purposes that protects the environment.

Now, running around killing endangered species so you can put the pelt on your wall is a different conversation.

 

[luckyshot]

Ethics + Enivronment + Health all agree, imo:

Veganism > Hunting for Meat > Purchasing Meat From High Quality Local Sources > Consuming Mass Produced Meat

Trophy hunting without using meat, I put in it's own category that I find ethically objectionable in all cases.

 

[Scrody]

Ya, shooting an animal is as normal as breathing air. I'm not even against hunting but this is just stupid and shows insight as to the regressive conservative mind.

Right wingers given the chance would kill anyone not like them

Shut the fuck up. You're bringing politics into a hunting discussion.

 

[zebby23]

Shut the fuck up. You're bringing politics into a hunting discussion.

lol why so triggered?

 

[Scrody]

lol why so triggered?

Because you're a dumbass?

 

[D3THRONED]

I eat meat, I'm fully aware of the livestock treatment, it's not like I get mad at it. But as part of my diet I consume it. Now hunting! what's going on with that? People get the kick of shooting defenseless animals, it's not like you have a stick and stones like millenniums ago, it's a fucking rifle. People who go to Africa just to shoot endangerous species are psychopaths and don't give me the "helping tribes" bs. I'm not a peta guy, but taking down a large animal just for the kicks is sick.

there's things called ecosystems and there's a finite number of land and resources. when there's an overpopulation of deer for example, people will hunt the oldest/biggest bucks. Also, there's animals like hogs which are invasive species that fuck up livestock and farms. So hunting isn't just as simple as "killing things for fun". For the record I don't even hunt but I live in Louisiana where the majority of people hunt and I have zero problems with it. I think going out and hunting a deer and eating it is much more intimate than just getting food from the grocery. factory farms are much worse than fucking hunting (which has many benefits). not to mention how much healthier the meat actually is.

 

[zebby23]

Because you're a dumbass?

Thanks... It's always nice having an intellectual discussion lol

 

[Drenalin]

I eat meat, I'm fully aware of the livestock treatment, it's not like I get mad at it. But as part of my diet I consume it. Now hunting! what's going on with that? People get the kick of shooting defenseless animals, it's not like you have a stick and stones like millenniums ago, it's a fucking rifle. People who go to Africa just to shoot endangerous species are psychopaths and don't give me the "helping tribes" bs. I'm not a peta guy, but taking down a large animal just for the kicks is sick.

You do realize mostly everyone eats what they kill. I'm having venison fajitas for dinner tonight. I hunt my meat. You only buy your meat.

Now I can understand if you want to complain about strictly hunting for a trophy, but being against hunting in general when you meat is a sign of ignorance.