Can We Finally Say SBG Fight Team is Medicore at Best?

Ah, don't be avoiding the questions.



Mmmm, it's not really. Was this thread bumped because of Gallagher's loss? In terms of the MMA fighters, who fight on televised cards, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. They have some lads who solely compete in BJJ tournaments in Europe who medal well. Maybe you think that because of some of the fights you listed off there. You also said Conor can't grapple - watch his fights with Dave Hill, Holloway, Brandao and Mendes.

The fascination with Kavanagh or any fighter closely related to SBG is odd and probably due to the fact that Conor or someone else beat one of their favourite fighters.
You didn't really address any of my examples of their prospects getting washed the minute they hit the UFC.

These fighters are merely regional level fighters, they are Cage Warriors type guys, they don't belong in there with legitimate high level fighters, not yet anyway.

I see very little examples of their team having high level grappling. Makwan Amirkhani who is supposed to be one of their strong grapplers could do nothing more than lay and pray on Jason Knight, and got swept and beat fairly easily by Arnold Allen, who was completely outwrestled by Mads Burnell prior to his hail mary choke.

You're being very ignorant or turning a complete blind eye to why someone would dislike SBG or their staff. John Kavanagh is one of the most smug men on earth, he is also a plastic black belt in BJJ but cannot wait to tell you how much of an innovator he was in European BJJ. Sorry, but if you are a legit BJJ man then your fighters would be solid on the ground, it's not like his fighters are losing to Fabricio Werdum or Brian Ortega, his guys are losing to other middle of the road fighters. This guy released a fucking book about his story, like anyone other than zombie Conor fans would even spend a buck on that shite - book should have been titled "Win or learn how to befriend a great fighter and live off him". Owen Roddy seems like a cool guy, but almost every other guy is a smarmy overconfident prick. Danis is a prick, Gallagher is a prick, Makwan is a prick, Dawodu appeared to be buying his own hype, Ward is a bit of a knob too. You then look at the journeymen in that camp like Pendred or Daly, they get a win and everyone shits the bed and starts acting like a proud father, they are regional fighters, nothing more or less, stop it.
 
Why would they be good? Not a very gifted nation as far as athletic genetics and not really a great destination to move to with their housing market.

There should be no expectation of them to achieve anything.
 
You didn't really address any of my examples of their prospects getting washed the minute they hit the UFC.

You didn't bring up any examples of their 'prospects' and I asked you to comment on PQ's last win and the Irish teams performance at the IMMAF's.

I see very little examples of their team having high level grappling. Makwan Amirkhani who is supposed to be one of their strong grapplers could do nothing more than lay and pray on Jason Knight, and got swept and beat fairly easily by Arnold Allen, so was completely outwrestled by Mads Burnell prior to his hail mary choke.

Never said they had a team of high level grappler's. It seems like you have some sort of narrative that you want to believe and that's cool, but if someone brings up how you might be incorrect on a couple of things or you don't comment on some of their fighters when they win, it sort of comes across as you having some sort of agenda against a gym/team which is a little strange.

You're being very ignorant or turning a complete blind eye to why someone would dislike SBG or their staff.

Listen, I can only give you my opinion. If you want to hate Kavanagh, his team, his family or pet dog, that's your prerogative - but again - you seem to have your own narrative which I'll quote you on and answer below in the next post.

John Kavanagh is one of the most smug men on earth, he is also a plastic black belt in BJJ but cannot wait to tell you how much of an innovator he was in European BJJ

And here it is: how is he smug? A plastic black belt? And when or where has he said he's an innovator in European BJJ - whatever that means.

Sorry, but if you are a legit BJJ man then your fighters would be solid on the ground, it's not like his fighters are losing to Fabricio Werdum or Brian Ortega, his guys are losing to other middle of the road fighters.

It's MMA, ffs. Everyone eventually loses. I could post threads when there's BAMMA events on and a fighter from SBG wins by submission. You cite Dawdou's loss as Kavanagh's/SBG's incompetence. He came over from my understanding because Kavanagh is pal's with his coach in Canada, the fight was in Liverpool so he trained at SBG for it and he has a back ground in Muay Thai, got clipped in the first 20 seconds and submitted. He may have got submitted later on in the fight, but the way you paint the picture of that fight is that he 'just got submitted'

You then look at the journeymen in that camp like Pendred or Daly, they get a win and everyone shits the bed acting like a proud father, they are regional fighters, nothing more or less, stop it.

What are you on about? I think you were listening to Gooden and Hardy when they held the event in Dublin and they were getting excited when some of the Irish fighters won. Pendred and Daly have retired long ago, you silly billy.
 
You didn't bring up any examples of their 'prospects' and I asked you to comment on PQ's last win and the Irish teams performance at the IMMAF's.



Never said they had a team of high level grappler's. It seems like you have some sort of narrative that you want to believe and that's cool, but if someone brings up how you might be incorrect on a couple of things or you don't comment on some of their fighters when they win, it sort of comes across as you having some sort of agenda against a gym/team which is a little strange.



Listen, I can only give you my opinion. If you want to hate Kavanagh, his team, his family or pet dog, that's your prerogative - but again - you seem to have your own narrative which I'll quote you on and answer below in the next post.



And here it is: how is he smug? A plastic black belt? And when or where has he said he's an innovator in European BJJ - whatever that means.



It's MMA, ffs. Everyone eventually loses. I could post threads when there's BAMMA events on and a fighter from SBG wins by submission. You cite Dawdou's loss as Kavanagh's/SBG's incompetence. He came over from my understanding because Kavanagh is pal's with his coach in Canada, the fight was in Liverpool so he trained at SBG for it and he has a back ground in Muay Thai, got clipped in the first 20 seconds and submitted. He may have got submitted later on in the fight, but the way you paint the picture of that fight is that he 'just got submitted'



What are you on about? I think you were listening to Gooden and Hardy when they held the event in Dublin and they were getting excited when some of the Irish fighters won. Pendred and Daly have retired long ago, you silly billy.
Unless someone has changed their name like Prince did, I'm not sure who PQ is, do you care to inform me? Also I'm not an avid fan of BJJ in terms of watching European BJJ tournaments which are an absolute bitch to find and are not exactly televised. I also know from all the fights I've watched over the years that you can do okay in a BJJ tournament but have no idea how to grapple with punches, elbows and knees. You, much like I must have seen tonnes of BJJ belt holders get beaten up and dominated on the floor because they are not ready for that arena.

I have no agenda against the team, I simply call it as I see it. Edmond wasn't out there in Glendale, AZ saying that he was a Judo black belt, he was claiming to be a boxing coach and a kickboxing world champion. This is the specific reason why he got laughed out of town, because his fighters (especially Rousey) looked like they lacked any basic understanding of how to strike when they were under his tutelage. John Kavanagh on the other hand is supposed to be the BJJ guy right? Recently upgraded to a 3rd stripe Black Belt in the art. He's a former MMA fighter with a pro-record so he has some idea of how MMA grappling differs from straight up traditional BJJ. All that said, outside of Gunnar Nelson he hasn't got one MMA fighter on his roster who looks really, really good on the ground.

He is smug, he whole aura, his dishonest estimations of fights, his ridiculously bias opinions when analysing his fighters' losses. The way that he likes to have himself front and centre when Conor wins, the book tour, the MMA hour appearances, his anti-religious tweets (this is coming from an Agnostic), his smugness on Twitter in general, it's just everything about his persona - he should be a humble man who should count his blessings that Conor has made him into a flourishing businessman. Without Conor he has no book deal, without Conor he's just another failed MMA fighter. The cheek of him to even have a book about himself, the story starts with Conor and ends with Conor, nobody, not even the most loyal fan of SBG really cares about him or his gym if you subtract Conor. It's like Conor's cockiness is something that he has to keep up, he needs to wear the cockiness too because that's part of his gym's persona, all his fighters like to be smack talkers and arrogant cunts too - there is no coincidence here.

You used the Dawodu fight as an example, okay maybe John's not been his coach long enough yet then, maybe John's not to blame for the incompetencies in his ground game. How about Phillips then? Because he's an SBG fighter good and proper and he was submitted and controlled like he had no idea what he was doing at all. You also mention that people don't focus on when an SBG fighter submits someone, but only the opposite. Well let me tell you this, I'm from London, I watch BAMMA all the time and for the most part these are novices, these guys do not belong on the big show, they don't belong in the UFC. Submitting some guy who is 2-4 is not impressive to me, that doesn't somehow make you good on the ground. Getting submitted in your UFC debut by a man with a similar record to you in a coin toss fight, whilst you appear to have no idea about the basics of BJJ is worrying though, especially if you come from a camp where BJJ is it's roots.

I know Daly and Pendred are retired, but yes Gooden/Hardy and many others (because everyone was buying into the big Irish MMA boom at the time) were getting all supportive of those poor fighters because they were handed two other bums and they won a bum fight. Lol, he's not SBG but Norman Parke was spoken about like he was an MMA prospect, look at him now, dossing around in Polish fight leagues.

Just saying.
 
Ah, don't be avoiding the questions.



Mmmm, it's not really. Was this thread bumped because of Gallagher's loss? In terms of the MMA fighters, who fight on televised cards, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. They have some lads who solely compete in BJJ tournaments in Europe who medal well. Maybe you think that because of some of the fights you listed off there. You also said Conor can't grapple - watch his fights with Dave Hill, Holloway, Brandao and Mendes.

The fascination with Kavanagh or any fighter closely related to SBG is odd and probably due to the fact that Conor or someone else beat one of their favourite fighters.

Partly. But also to illustrate what is fairly obvious about that gym. Anyone who's begging for a stand up has serious deficiencies in their overall MMA game.
 
If they were mediocre, we'd have never heard of them. Instead, they have pro mma fighters in multiple promotions.
 
You didn't bring up any examples of their 'prospects' and I asked you to comment on PQ's last win and the Irish teams performance at the IMMAF's.



Never said they had a team of high level grappler's. It seems like you have some sort of narrative that you want to believe and that's cool, but if someone brings up how you might be incorrect on a couple of things or you don't comment on some of their fighters when they win, it sort of comes across as you having some sort of agenda against a gym/team which is a little strange.



Listen, I can only give you my opinion. If you want to hate Kavanagh, his team, his family or pet dog, that's your prerogative - but again - you seem to have your own narrative which I'll quote you on and answer below in the next post.



And here it is: how is he smug? A plastic black belt? And when or where has he said he's an innovator in European BJJ - whatever that means.



It's MMA, ffs. Everyone eventually loses. I could post threads when there's BAMMA events on and a fighter from SBG wins by submission. You cite Dawdou's loss as Kavanagh's/SBG's incompetence. He came over from my understanding because Kavanagh is pal's with his coach in Canada, the fight was in Liverpool so he trained at SBG for it and he has a back ground in Muay Thai, got clipped in the first 20 seconds and submitted. He may have got submitted later on in the fight, but the way you paint the picture of that fight is that he 'just got submitted'



What are you on about? I think you were listening to Gooden and Hardy when they held the event in Dublin and they were getting excited when some of the Irish fighters won. Pendred and Daly have retired long ago, you silly billy.
So their only good prospects are the ones still competing in the amateur scene? Nice. Winning the IMMAF tourney is a great accomplishment, but if the best prospects you have are not in the pro ranks yet, and you've been a notable team for quite a while, that has to say something about the team itself.

I'm not going to disparage the whole SBG stable, because I do think they have some talented young guys like Amirkhani and Dawodu in the UFC right now, but to blatantly ignore what NBR said and just point to one amateur guy's accomplishments to try and paint the team as a top of the foodchain facility is disingenous and downright ridiculous.
 
If they were mediocre, we'd have never heard of them. Instead, they have pro mma fighters in multiple promotions.
Pro fighters who's success has been mediocre, save for Conor, of course.

Being called mediocre is not that bad, it just means that you're average, and I think it is an accurate way of describing SBG for now. They can definitely turn into a great team in a few years, but for now, they're mediocre.
 
Pro fighters who's success has been mediocre, save for Conor, of course.

Being called mediocre is not that bad, it just means that you're average, and I think it is an accurate way of describing SBG for now. They can definitely turn into a great team in a few years, but for now, they're mediocre.
Guess what, the average gym is anonymous. The average gym doesn't have UFC caliber fighters, much less champs.

I get you hate Conor.
 
Guess what, the average gym is anonymous. The average gym doesn't have UFC caliber fighters, much less champs.

I get you hate Conor.
Except I don't.

They have average guys in the UFC with average success ergo they're an average gym.
 
Unless someone has changed their name like Prince did, I'm not sure who PQ is, do you care to inform me?

Peter Queally. Went over to Russia and fought an Armenian lad who was 24-3, lost by decision, KO'd the bloke in the 1st round and the crowd went mental. Had to get a military escort out of the venue. Good grappler by European standards, but has hit some bumps along the way losing to fighters he should beat on paper probably, but it's MMA and anything can happen.

I have no agenda against the team, I simply call it as I see it

Have an agenda all you want, my man, but I find it a bit odd firstly. And if someone questions you on some of the things you say, why not give examples of what you're saying? Not just some blunt opinion you seem to have. Everything is blown out of proportion on here on what someone said, did, etc.

He is smug, he whole aura, his dishonest estimations of fights,

Smug and has an aura. See, again, I can't really give my opinion on what you're saying as you're not giving a clear example. I find him to be cheesy if anything and a little nerdy. He could be the biggest dickhead in the world but outside of interviews, I don't know him at all.

his dishonest estimations of fights, his ridiculously bias opinions when analysing his fighters' losses.

Well, he only does interviews really for Conor's fights on Helwani's show and maybe some 2 minute one's on some youtube channel. Of course he's going to think his fighter is going to win. Or does it annoy you that he said Conor would beat Aldo under a minute - which Pedeneiras said Aldo would KO Conor. Or when he said Conor would KO Alvarez in the second round - whereas Henry talked about Conor having no wrestling and Alvarez would take him down.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on here - but a fighters coach or team-mate is always going to back their man/woman no matter what they privately think. Where are you watching or reading about his biased opinion on when his fighters lose?

You used the Dawodu fight as an example, okay maybe John's not been his coach long enough yet then, maybe John's not to blame for the incompetencies in his ground game. How about Phillips then? Because he's an SBG fighter good and proper and he was submitted and controlled like he had no idea what he was doing at all

But see, you're coming at this whole debate with a blame him, I dislike him mentality. I've never heard Kavanagh refer to anything of the sort as being some sort of pioneer for BJJ in Europe. I've heard folk call him the Godfather of Irish MMA..........Anyway, Phillips has been on the European scene for a long time and has been in Dublin for 2 and a half years roughly. He fights out of SBG and I watched him on BAMMA cards and folding people with 1 punch. I couldn't really say how good or bad his ground game was as he was controlled so easily. But then again, I don't really know what his ground game was like before he went to SBG. You seem to think that if a fighter goes to Kavanagh they should have a reasonable ground game or you flag him or the gym as being fraudulent and know him from interviews and Twitter. Seriously.

but yes Gooden/Hardy and many others (because everyone was buying into the big Irish MMA boom at the time) were getting all supportive of those poor fighters because they were handed two other bums and they won a bum fight

I don't understand the last bit? I thought that was a great card and a great night for Irish MMA - just because Hardy and Gooden said there was an Irish MMA boom coming, doesn't mean it's true. There was the English one before that and that didn't really take off. We're still playing catch up in Europe. Aside from Till's gym which I can't spell and London Shootfighters - I couldn't tell you the name of another gym in the country. Forget about Irish MMA, I don't think even fighters from Europe are going to be churning out Champions on a regular basis, but that's another debate.
 
Anyone who's begging for a stand up has serious deficiencies in their overall MMA game.

Think you mean grappling.

Do you back some gym in America or something that has had beef with SBG? Cesar Gracie, TAM or one of those.
 
So their only good prospects are the ones still competing in the amateur scene? Nice.

Well, you gain experience firstly and then work your way up. Hardly an anomaly when it comes to MMA. I put the air quotes in there as well as you don't know what can happen.

Winning the IMMAF tourney is a great accomplishment, but if the best prospects you have are not in the pro ranks yet, and you've been a notable team for quite a while, that has to say something about the team itself.

And winning medals at the IMMAF tournaments - not only SBG fighters - doesn't mean they're going to go on and have a successful career in pro MMA. Your last sentence sums up where I think SBG is - they're still a young gym compared to the one's in the States and Brazil. The bloke who re-started this thread brought up that the gym is mediocre on account of Gallagher losing a fight. Shocking that a fighter loses. But by the same token, just because 1 fighter has had success doesn't mean it's a super gym. You'd have to ask the thread starter about that. (I'm sure he'll say the CONOR NUTHUGGERZ brought it up) I've rarily seen a thread about what gym is the best, but I've seen one's about one's that are supposedly stagnating.

ATT has been around for a long time and I'm sure their 1st UFC Champion was Lawler - but fans don't care much for what gym a fighter comes from. Obviously aside from the chap who started this thread.

but to blatantly ignore what NBR said and just point to one amateur guy's accomplishments to try and paint the team as a top of the foodchain facility is disingenous and downright ridiculous.

What?? Where did I even hint that the gym is a top of the food chain facility? Gyms go through peaks and troughs, imo, and if a couple of fighters lose in close proximity to one another, the gym is in turmoil, etc. People have been saying similar about Tri-Star, but I bet any gym has more fighters on the regional scene than in the UFC or a top MMA organisation.
 
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They aren't as bad as all the McGreggor haters wish they were?
 
You mean a average UFC caliber gym? Okay. ..
Yes, compared to other UFC caliber teams, they're average. Compared to regional level gyms, I'm sure they're well above average, even if some of their guys do lose on CW/BAMMA from time to time.
Well, you gain experience firstly and then work your way up. Hardly an anomaly when it comes to MMA. I put the air quotes in there as well as you don't know what can happen.



And winning medals at the IMMAF tournaments - not only SBG fighters - doesn't mean they're going to go on and have a successful career in pro MMA. Your last sentence sums up where I think SBG is - they're still a young gym compared to the one's in the States and Brazil. The bloke who re-started this thread brought up that the gym is mediocre on account of Gallagher losing a fight. Shocking that a fighter loses. But by the same token, just because 1 fighter has had success doesn't mean it's a super gym. You'd have to ask the thread starter about that. (I'm sure he'll say the CONOR NUTHUGGERZ brought it up) I've rarily seen a thread about what gym is the best, but I've seen one's about one's that are supposedly stagnating.

ATT has been around for a long time and I'm sure their 1st UFC Champion was Lawler - but fans don't care much for what gym a fighter comes from. Obviously aside from the chap who started this thread.



What?? Where did I even hint that the gym is a top of the food chain facility? Gyms go through peaks and troughs, imo, and if a couple of fighters lose in close proximity to one another, the gym is in turmoil, etc. People have been saying similar about Tri-Star, but I bet any gym has more fighters on the regional scene than in the UFC or a top MMA organisation.
I didn't catch anything but the tail end of the conversation, so I just assumed you were arguing that SBG is at the top of MMA teams. My mistake, apologies.

I do agree in that pointing towards Gallagher as proof of SBG being horrible is inconclusive, seeing as the guy is 21. From my perspective, SBG is a mediocre gym at the moment, but that could change for better or for worse in the coming years, just have to give it time.
 
I didn't catch anything but the tail end of the conversation, so I just assumed you were arguing that SBG is at the top of MMA teams. My mistake, apologies.

I do agree in that pointing towards Gallagher as proof of SBG being horrible is inconclusive, seeing as the guy is 21. From my perspective, SBG is a mediocre gym at the moment, but that could change for better or for worse in the coming years, just have to give it time.

No probs.

Well, I don't know what makes a gym a top one anymore - a gym is only as good as how many belts they hold in the UFC or depending on what your criteria is. It's not something I really think of as the 'honour' of a gym is really for fighters and they all train in the best gym in the world.

The conversation was more edging towards Kavanagh and this seemingly bad aura and smugness he has, which NBR didn't really divulge on. The whole GOAT debate bores me to tears, and as for giving out a rating about a gym or what people think of SBG or any gym I couldn't care less more about.
 
Think you mean grappling.

Do you back some gym in America or something that has had beef with SBG? Cesar Gracie, TAM or one of those.
Lol says the SBG fanboy
 
No shade, but honestly why do people give a shit about this?

they appear to be passionate and spend their time working on their craft. Shrug.

And they've had success.. so, I dont get it, because they aren't ATT or Jackson's or whatever they're terrible and should just give it up?

Stop being confident and proud because they're overrated according to some people on an internet forum...?

Celebrating the setbacks of other people isnt really a good habit to get into imo.
 
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