Can you shortcut years of training by rolling with the best?

[CFGroup]

It's always good to train with people that are better than you....

Lose a thousand times, but each time a little less completely.

The after, after Randori was where I learned the best offense from picking the brains of the advanced competitors.

Uchi made a good point about making sure to travel and absorb as many unique styles and tactics as possible. I use to have my north east training tour Saturday's where I'd train in Boston morning class, then Danvers in the afternoon plus 7:30 am Sundays. 5 hours in one day of training every week from two perspectives made a huge difference coming up.

 

[thugpoet]

The traditional training methods in BJJ just suck.

This is taken out of context.

I was referring to an earlier post where it was claimed that playing against bigger kids was not an optimal way to get better.

I disagreed.

 

[yetanother]

This is taken out of context.

I was referring to an earlier post where it was claimed that playing against bigger kids was not an optimal way to get better.

I disagreed.

In a traditional BJJ system of learning stuff while rolling without positional sparring and proper drilling rolling with bigger kids isn't that good.

 

[thugpoet]

In a traditional BJJ system of learning stuff while rolling without positional sparring and proper drilling rolling with bigger kids isn't that good.

Compared to rolling with kids your own age group I'd wager its more effective. Get better or get flattened.

I've already explained and quoted creditable sources that agree with me.

If you don't agree then so be it

 

[TK1985]

Rolling with the best will make you really good at defending subs...but that's about it. I occasionally roll with my instructor and even though he lets me have position, you never really get close to applying any type of good offense or subs. But my defense has gotten a lot tighter.

I don't think there is substitute for mat time but there are definitely shortcuts to progressing faster (doing live drills instead of static drills, watching Youtube tutorials and trying them out, etc)

 

[Forceof1]

Compared to rolling with kids your own age group I'd wager its more effective. Get better or get flattened.

I've already explained and quoted creditable sources that agree with me.

If you don't agree then so be it

You're moving the goal posts. Assuming the instruction is the same- if you have the option to then roll with all super high level guys WHO ARE GOING HARD, or people roughly your own skill level who ARE GOING HARD- I'd wages the person going against people his own level becomes a better grappler.

Seriously - your in a gym with Rafa, lovato, marcelo. You will never in your life do an arm bar, RNC etc. You keep skipping over that point. It takes practice to finish a move against a fully resisting opponent. that is skill development that simply won't take place in the scenario you are advocating.

 

[yetanother]

> In the scenario you are advocating.

I'm not sure he is advocating just getting trashed in varied ways in unstructured rolling. He thinks it's better to be forced to improve by better partners.
Positional sparring with better guys works wonders compared to any sort of rolling. If I could just do positional rounds with Rafa/Lovato/Marcelo for a year I seriously thing I would get to the point where I could pull of my attacks on everyone.

 

[thugpoet]

You're moving the goal posts. Assuming the instruction is the same- if you have the option to then roll with all super high level guys WHO ARE GOING HARD, or people roughly your own skill level who ARE GOING HARD- I'd wages the person going against people his own level becomes a better grappler.

Seriously - your in a gym with Rafa, lovato, marcelo. You will never in your life do an arm bar, RNC etc. You keep skipping over that point. It takes practice to finish a move against a fully resisting opponent. that is skill development that simply won't take place in the scenario you are advocating.

See you are talking from a play where you THINK would happen.

I am speaking from experience.

I'd rather be in a room full of killers then a room full of scrubs.

Like Ive said before I've already provided quotes and examples of high level guys agreeing with me.

You ever heard the saying if you are the smartest guy in a room then it's time to change rooms? Consistently challenging yourself with guys better then yourself gives you skills in every sport and every other part of your life.

Anyone who says anything different I'd wager has never reached a high level at anything.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

See you are talking from a play where you THINK would happen.

I am speaking from experience.

I'd rather be in a room full of killers then a room full of scrubs.

Like Ive said before I've already provided quotes and examples of high level guys agreeing with me.

You ever heard the saying if you are the smartest guy in a room then it's time to change rooms? Consistently challenging yourself with guys better then yourself gives you skills in every sport and every other part of your life.

Anyone who says anything different I'd wager has never reached a high level at anything.

I don’t think anyone is saying you should be th best guy in the room and crush everyone to improve, that’s silly. The ideal is to be in a room with all levels of competition.

If you are. A brand new white belt, a room full of killers is not the place you need to be, or blue...

 

[yetanother]

See you are talking from a play where you THINK would happen.

I am speaking from experience.

I'd rather be in a room full of killers then a room full of scrubs.

Rolling with scrubs sucks.
For rolling I always try to pick the best guy I can.
I used to avoid the white belts and most of the blue belts in my old club. I train at a tiny worse one and it's a waste of time for me to roll with white belts.
OTOH in my experience almost all of the small super weak people I met are making very little progress so being crushed all the time doesn't seem to good for them.

 

[yetanother]

I am speaking from experience.

Do you think if you did only sparring (without significant drilling) with killer in boxing you would improve a lot?

 

[thugpoet]

I don’t think anyone is saying you should be th best guy in the room and crush everyone to improve, that’s silly. The ideal is to be in a room with all levels of competition.

If you are. A brand new white belt, a room full of killers is not the place you need to be, or blue...

And I disagree

 

[winterbike]

I don’t think anyone is saying you should be th best guy in the room and crush everyone to improve, that’s silly. The ideal is to be in a room with all levels of competition.

If you are. A brand new white belt, a room full of killers is not the place you need to be, or blue...

Are you sure? Having Lebron James dunk over my head 500x in a row seems like the greatest way to learn basketball extremely fast #lifehacks

 

[thugpoet]

Do you think if you did only sparring (without significant drilling) with killer in boxing you would improve a lot?

yea I do. That's literally how most Basketball players get better. Most don't start individual workouts until college

 

[winterbike]

yea I do. That's literally how most Basketball players get better. Most don't start individual workouts until college

 

[thugpoet]

Once a debate turns into a contest of memes and who can be the funniest then it's time for me to bow out. Good will to all.

 

[THEfightsAREfixed]

Yes, you can.

But most can't handle that type of experience.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

And I disagree

You can disagree, but unless you think you would walk in a room full of killers and they would just baby sit you for who knows how long it would take you to actually pull something on them, then I think you are wrong. There is a reason why classes are diveded by begginers and advance, so both people don’t waste each other’s times.

 

[thugpoet]

You can disagree, but unless you think you would walk in a room full of killers and they would just baby sit you for who knows how long it would take you to actually pull something on them, then I think you are wrong. There is a reason why classes are diveded by begginers and advance, so both people don’t waste each other’s times.

When did I say anything of the sort?

So many assumptions.

 

[Jared's picks]

I find studying tape and watching instructionals helps way more than getting beat up by far better grapplers