Canelo vacates the WBC belt!

[nac386]

I said he no longer throws the same shot he knocked down Marquez with, you then posted a GIF of a different punch. Funnily enough, not all lead left hooks are the same. When you explode forward two feet to land a shot, and step back within the same movement, it requires a different kind of athleticism. Why don't you post the Marquez gif up if they are the same?

So older Floyd is not as explosive as younger Floyd. I'm glad you agree with the point I've made all along.

They are both older and less explosive. They both adapted. Floyd pot shots more, Manny cut his output in half. Floyd cut his combos from 2-3 punches down to 1-2, and Pacquiao cut his from 3-4 down to 2-3. BThey both did what they had to do to stay competitive within their ability.

I am recognizing the very obvious drop offs they both experienced, while you're exaggerating one and pretending the other does not exist.

 

[Sunfish]

Well they're both past their prime so I wouldn't say it was an unfair fight. There's no denying though that Floyd wouldn't fight him in his prime. It was only after Manny got KO'd and slowed down that the fight got made. It's not unreasonable to say that's what Floyd was waiting for but only he knows for sure.

There is denying that Floyd wouldn't fight manny in his prime.

Again, there are enormous threads everywhere explaining why to anyone who is prepared to take their blinkers off and listen.

Otherwise carry on with the "boo Floyd boo" nonsense.

 

[Canelo]

So older Floyd is not as explosive as younger Floyd. I'm glad you agree with the point I've made all along.

They are both older and less explosive. They both adapted. Floyd pot shots more, Manny cut his output in half. Floyd cut his combos from 2-3 punches down to 1-2, and Pacquiao cut his from 3-4 down to 2-3. BThey both did what they had to do to stay competitive within their ability.

I am recognizing the very obvious drop offs they both experienced, while you're exaggerating one and pretending the other does not exist.

Well obviously that was what I saying? Floyd is not explosive enough to land that shot anymore so he rarely throws it. I compared that to Manny still being explosive enough to land all of his best weapons. I've already said that I don't really know what you are arguing against, you seem to be insist on debating semantics.

What is it with you making stuff up?

while you're exaggerating one and pretending the other does not exist.

Nice bit of trivia there, but not actually what I said. In fact, I've said multiples times in this thread that Manny has declined and has lost a bit in most areas, a very similar assessment to your own. Not quite the same as 'pretending something does not exist is it? I was never denying that Pacquiao had slipped. Here's what I actually said:

Manny has degraded naturally in each area, but that's not a huge deal when he's still the among the very best in the world at each area. His speed may have dropped, but he's still one of the fastest boxers in the division.

Yes, I agree that both fighters have degraded. My argument was simply that based on their last fights, Floyd is further away from his prime self than Manny is. Not by much, but I think his inability to throw combinations coupled with his well known physical issues for over 10 years tip it. I think him still looking physically elite has a lot to do with his experience and ability later on in his career. With that said, if Floyd did wait for Manny to get old, the benefit is not what he is inferring, Floyd had lost steps as well and was no where near as offensively sharp as he was against Mosley or Marquez. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this is a ridiculous opinion.

 

[nac386]

Well obviously that was what I saying? Floyd is not explosive enough to land that shot anymore so he rarely throws it. I compared that to Manny still being explosive enough to land all of his best weapons. I've already said that I don't really know what you are arguing against, you seem to be insist on debating semantics.

What is it with you making stuff up?

Nice bit of trivia there, but not actually what I said. In fact, I've said multiples times in this thread that Manny has declined and has lost a bit in most areas, a very similar assessment to your own. Not quite the same as 'pretending something does not exist is it? I was never denying that Pacquiao had slipped. Here's what I actually said:

Yes, I agree that both fighters have degraded. My argument was simply that based on their last fights, Floyd is further away from his prime self than Manny is. Not by much, but I think his inability to throw combinations coupled with his well known physical issues for over 10 years tip it. I think him still looking physically elite has a lot to do with his experience and ability later on in his career. With that said, if Floyd did wait for Manny to get old, the benefit is not what he is inferring, Floyd had lost steps as well and was no where near as offensively sharp as he was against Mosley or Marquez. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this is a ridiculous opinion.

You have said in the past that Pacquiao is almost the same guy he always was, while Floyd is a shell. You've said it several times.

But to end this debate, since I have too many going on right now to keep up with, I completely agree that Floyd gained almost nothing at all if he intentionally waited for Pacquiao to age. I believe the fight would have looked the same, but with a faster pace in 2009. People would have felt the same way afterwards, except they would not be complaining about the price and the wait.

 

[Canelo]

You have said in the past that Pacquiao is almost the same guy he always was, while Floyd is a shell. You've said it several times.

But to end this debate, since I have too many going on right now to keep up with, I completely agree that Floyd gained almost nothing at all if he intentionally waited for Pacquiao to age. I believe the fight would have looked the same, but with a faster pace in 2009. People would have felt the same way afterwards, except they would not be complaining about the price and the wait.

My viewpoint has never been that Floyd was past it and Manny wasn't. I've always conceded that Manny has regressed in some areas, just different ones to Floyd.

I think physically Pacquaio is almost the guy he always was, the almost comes from him losing some speed and stamina. I think a lot of performance related problems come from his killer instinct and mentality, which is mental degregation rather than physical.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

There is denying that Floyd wouldn't fight manny in his prime.

Again, there are enormous threads everywhere explaining why to anyone who is prepared to take their blinkers off and listen.

Otherwise carry on with the "boo Floyd boo" nonsense.

Well I'll rephrase it. The fight never got made while Manny was in his prime. Why is questionable. Only Floyd knows.

 

[Canelo]

Well I'll rephrase it. The fight never got made while Manny was in his prime. Why is questionable. Only Floyd knows.

The fight never got made when Floyd was in his prime either.

 

[Sunfish]

Well I'll rephrase it. The fight never got made while Manny was in his prime. Why is questionable. Only Floyd knows.

$10m penalty per lb over weight and refusing the negotiating counter offer of drug testing is a good place to start looking.

 

[RascalBird]

I think people have a hard time admitting that Floyd is the greater fighter. I like Manny more, but Floyd has like two fights where you can even question the decision in my opinion. The first Castillo fight was his closest one, but other than that, I don't see how you could score either the DLH or Maidana fight against him. Both were close for the first half of the fight, but that's about it. Floyd hit Maidana with some good shots that a lot of people failed to see. Same with the Mosely and Judah fights, halfway through you knew Floyd had the fight in the bag. He's a master of figuring fighters out during the bout, and he could still beat anyone at 154 and under in my opinion. I'd favor him over Golovkin actually, even at middleweight.

 

[nastyleft]

A funny thing happened during that last discussion. I think you Pacman guys have turned your own argument against you... If Manny hasn't degraded as much as Floyd has and Floyd was still able to control the fight against Manny in one sided UD fashion; does that mean Manny wasn't really that close to Floyd ever at any part of his career, prime or otherwise?

 

[Sunfish]

I liked the guy who thinks 66 fights is double 49.

 

[Queen B]

Has Golden Boy given out an official statement as to why Canelo dropped the WBC belt?

It looks like he is going after the WBO belt now.

 

[Gervinho]

Has Golden Boy given out an official statement as to why Canelo dropped the WBC belt?

It looks like he is going after the WBO belt now.

because he was told to fight GGG

 

[The Can Opener]

Has Golden Boy given out an official statement as to why Canelo dropped the WBC belt?

It looks like he is going after the WBO belt now.

Yes they did. It was all over the news and all over the forum.

Maybe if it mentioned the PBC you would have seen it.

 

[nastyleft]

Has Golden Boy given out an official statement as to why Canelo dropped the WBC belt?

It looks like he is going after the WBO belt now.

Just look at the first few freaking posts in the thread, it's been clearly explained why he did it, by the kid himself.

 

[Marc A]

Man that's low! Major slap in the face to all those great MW fighters of yester-year! The green strap at MW is one of the most sought after in boxing! 160 is a golden division second only to HW probably!

Sergio Martínez
Bernard Hopkins
Julian Jackson
Joey Giardello
Gerald McClellan
Roberto Durán
Thomas Hearns
Sugar Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Kelly Pavlik
Nino Benvenuti
Carlos Monzon
Emile Griffith
Nino Benvenuti
Dick Tiger
Iran Barkley

Are just some of the vaunted names to have held it. Vacating it is bad enough but vacating it after the following series of events:

-2015 Alvarez stated immediately following the Cotto win (in response to a question asked by Max Kellerman in the post fight interview) "I am ready for Golovkin"

-In 2016 he signs to fight former LWW Amir Khan for the green belt, gets schooled for the most part but manages to get the KO against the chinny wonder kid

-Immediately after the fight he invites Golovkin into the ring & states " In Mexico we don't fuck around"

-Mid may he then vacates the title rather than suffer the indignity of being stripped or forced to face the mandatory Golovkin.

LOL This is a blatant duck (one of the worst in recent times) He is a disgrace to all those great Latino warriors gone by.. Duran, JCC, Barrera, Monzon, ODH, Lopez, Arguello etc

One consolation is Golovkin is now a WBC champion. Probably going to have the easiest route to undisputed (full unification) ever! Saunders is world class & a good win but he's not Golovkin level! Danny Jacobs too (sort of the William Joppy of this era).. Happy for Golovkin but Canelo has cheated the fans, 3G, the sport & its history. Don't give me crap about how he is waiting it out either! Now was a prime/opportune time to fight the WBA/WBO champion (both are free of opponents)..

In Mexico "we obviously do fuck around"

Agreed bro GGG would never not fight his Mandatory or force a lighter wieght fighter to move up instead of fighting a true middleweight