Cardio or Weights? Which is more beneficial?

[maximus__]

I said:

Strongfirst is doing some really cool stuff with strength endurance and work capacity, which gives you all the benefits listed under both modalities. Simple & Sinister, Iron Cardio, their BJJ Fanatics program, and several other programs will get you strong as hell and let you be explosive for hours.

And you said:

No they won't. They will get you good at swinging a kettlebell.

You don't know shit about Strongfirst's programs, something made pretty clear by your kettlebell swing comment. They will more than deliver all the points in the OP's chart and the adaptations I discussed. And you know how stupid you sound because now you're babbling about what elite athletes need and trying to change this to a discussion about steady state cardio.

What the hell is wrong with you?

Because I disagree that their principles constitute cardio training for this example.None of their programs are for aerobic training (without adding Long steady state work). I would put it under weight training in this specific example. That's why I said it will get you good at swinging a kettlebell.

Cardiac output (CO), also known as heart output is the volumetric flow rate of the heart's pumping output: that is, the volume of blood being pumped by a single ventricle of the heart, per unit time (usually measured per minute). Cardiac output (CO) is the product of the heart rate (HR), i.e. the number of heartbeats per minute (bpm), and the stroke volume (SV), which is the volume of blood pumped from the left ventricle per beat; thus giving the formula:
(Stolen from Wiki)

Kettlebell Axe is antiglycolitic training. It's not cardio it's aimed at developing the ability to sustain power over an extended duration. It doesn't meet the goal of what we would call cardio, it's more akin to weight training.

Anti-Glycolytic Training for Power-Speed Athletes - SimpliFaster

Are chronically high-intensity efforts the way to train the power-speed athlete? Coach Austin McClinton doesn’t believe so; instead, he embraces Verkhoshansky’s anti-glycolytic training style.

simplifaster.com

Quick and the dead has the same issue and Simple and Sinisters max interval is only 10 mins. None of those programs are cardio. They are general strength and conditioning programs.

Only reason I have responded is to expand on what I said because you initially asked.

You missed half my initial post as a heads up...

No they won't. They will get you good at swinging a kettlebell.

I enjoy the work and that style of training, but relying on the "WTH" effect to say this works, isn't good enough.
It's less effective than just lifting weights, running and doing some plyo style jumping and throws would be.

It's good as a part of a program, but their minimalist programs aren't really effective long term as a stand alone. It's why they don't have any really successful athletes outside of their own competitions.

Just my opinion after following all these different programs over the years and 15+ years of Kettlebell training.

 

[don't ask]

Because I disagree that their principles constitute cardio training for this example.None of their programs are for aerobic training (without adding Long steady state work). I would put it under weight training in this specific example. That's why I said it will get you good at swinging a kettlebell.

Cardiac output (CO), also known as heart output is the volumetric flow rate of the heart's pumping output: that is, the volume of blood being pumped by a single ventricle of the heart, per unit time (usually measured per minute). Cardiac output (CO) is the product of the heart rate (HR), i.e. the number of heartbeats per minute (bpm), and the stroke volume (SV), which is the volume of blood pumped from the left ventricle per beat; thus giving the formula:
(Stolen from Wiki)

Kettlebell Axe is antiglycolitic training. It's not cardio it's aimed at developing the ability to sustain power over an extended duration. It doesn't meet the goal of what we would call cardio, it's more akin to weight training.

Anti-Glycolytic Training for Power-Speed Athletes - SimpliFaster

Are chronically high-intensity efforts the way to train the power-speed athlete? Coach Austin McClinton doesn’t believe so; instead, he embraces Verkhoshansky’s anti-glycolytic training style.

simplifaster.com

Quick and the dead has the same issue and Simple and Sinisters max interval is only 10 mins. None of those programs are cardio. They are general strength and conditioning programs.

Only reason I have responded is to expand on what I said because you initially asked.

You missed half my initial post as a heads up...

No they won't. They will get you good at swinging a kettlebell.

I enjoy the work and that style of training, but relying on the "WTH" effect to say this works, isn't good enough.
It's less effective than just lifting weights, running and doing some plyo style jumping and throws would be.

It's good as a part of a program, but their minimalist programs aren't really effective long term as a stand alone. It's why they don't have any really successful athletes outside of their own competitions.

Just my opinion after following all these different programs over the years and 15+ years of Kettlebell training.

Okay, now you're just trolling me. You have no idea what I said Strongfirst training would do and you have knowledge of one or two Strongfirst programs, at most, and are pretending that's all they have.

Anyone reading this, pay attention to the claims made and where this dumb-ass is moving the goalposts. I'm out.

 

[maximus__]

Okay, now you're just trolling me. You have no idea what I said Strongfirst training would do and you have knowledge of one or two Strongfirst programs, at most, and are pretending that's all they have.

Anyone reading this, pay attention to the claims made and where this dumb-ass is moving the goalposts. I'm out.

You jumped on the Kettlebell swing comment and ignored the entirety of my post which was pretty reasonable IMO.
All I said is you have to add to those programs.

You then asked me to expand on my issues with Strongfirst and these specific programs? I explained it was the lack of cardio output or cardio training in them, but making claims to achieve that. I left all the other criticisms out to actually talk about waht youasked.

Don't ask for someone to explain their opinion on something and then get upset when they do and disagree with you. I gave some reasonable explanations why I believe what I believe and used examples to explain why I believe that.

I just tied what I was saying about Strongfirst back into the thread we were talking in. It's keeping a post reasonably on topic before it just turns into an argument and fully derails a thread.

 

[Cole train]

Military? Cardio

Daily activities? Weights imo

Main thing is to do something since life and injuries takes a toll in time generally

 

[GearSolidMetal]

As a fan of kettlebells, I refer to it as weighted endurance training.

Giant powerlifters can't do cardio/endurance exercises to save their life.

Skinny marathon runners can't do lift beyond the average for their bodyweight to save their life.

I believe the best shape for people to be in is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Baby Hanma]

Both.