International Catalonia's Rebellion: 170,000 Spaniards in Madrid March Against Amnesty Plan for Catalan Secessionists

No, countries in the EU have a collective interest to shut Catalonia out. There are over a dozen secessionist movements across Europe, and allowing Catalonia to break from Spain will encourage those.

I hope they all seceed.

I'm British, but I would love to see Scotland and Wales get independence. I'm not a power hungry STATIST like you. I believe in true democracy and power as close to the grass roots as possible.

Real British people didn't want the EU and didnt want mass, unchecked immigration. This was all imposed on us by the power hungry leftist state.
 
Why not you believe the media that proscribes your political rhetoric. Or does it only conveniently apply when its something you don't wish to agree with? How odd.:rolleyes:



Of course at the end of the day the most important thing is keeping a stable and powerful country. As we discussed earlier Catatonias independence would be disastrous for itself, ,Spain,Europe and It would probably spark a recession that hit globally.

It's not worth giving a minority their way when it would cause a shit storm. The benefit and harm of the largely scope of things is always more important.

In before

1. thats bollocks
2. No thats not true whilst providing no evidence to the contrary
3. Marxists!
4. Feminists

<OKC16>

I hope they do secceed. I hope Scotland and Wales eventually do to.
 
I hope they do secceed. I hope Scotland and Wales eventually do to.

And as i noted. You're clearly ignorant of Spains history and of economics to support this.

The fact you tried to bang on about Marxism while Catalonia had a heavy amount of Marxist ties and feminist support for separatism shows how completely out of your depth you are here. You're literally supporting the grand socialist/feminist boogeyman you always whine about while being wrong left and right about the subject at hand.

Just sit this one out skippy you're lost.
 
And as i noted. You're clearly ignorant of Spains history and of economics to support this.

The fact you tried to bang on about Marxism while Catalonia had a heavy amount of Marxist ties and feminist support for separatism shows how completely out of your depth you are here. You're literally supporting the grand socialist/feminist boogeyman you always whine about while being wrong left and right about the subject at hand.

Just sit this one out skippy you're lost.

Things are different now. The EU, big state, big government is the enemy. Grassroots democratic populism is the cure.
 
It's obvious at this point most of the foreign pro separatists have just watched Braveheart one too many times and have a collection of Che Guevara T shirts in there closets. Its outright comical how oblivious they are to the economical consequences as well at the history of Spain. They just get excited and want to wave their revolution boners all over. If any of these pro separatists are also scoffing at the notion of Cali-Exit whilst supporting Catalan independence i'm going to bray even louder.

If this movement were fringe or run by a bunch of college students and young kids, I'd buy the notion that they just haven't thought it through.

But it's supported by most or all of the highest- ranking Catalan officials. Surely they've had input from the business sector and have seriously weighed the pros and cons of independence. I know a bunch of companies have threatened to leave if they become independent but if the politicians are still on board with breaking away, then they must think the advantages outweigh this as well... right?

I'd love to see the public debates on this. What do they say when the economic question is brought up?
 
Paid for by Soros and globalists.

Catalan needs LEADERSHIP. A Che Guevara/Eamonn De Valera type that will be willing to fight/die for independence.

I would love Trump to recognise Catalonia.

Bussed in by George Soros and other globalists.

It's so f**king obvious.

Spain are trying to change the narrative.

Hitler would have envied the power the EU holds over Europe.

The EU will force all countries of Europe to shun Catalonia against their individual interests, but in the interests of the EU superstate.

LOL, at first I honestly thought all these random rants were trolling.

You're barking up the wrong tree. There's no boogeyman pulling the strings behind the scene here. There really are more Unionists than Separatists in Catalonia, that's a fact. No one in Europe is jumping to recognize the Catalan regional government's unilateral declaration of independence, simply because no one in Europe want to see it happening next in their own backyard, that's also a fact.
 
LOL, at first I honestly thought all these random rants were trolling.

You're barking up the wrong tree. There's no boogeyman pulling the strings behind the scene here. There really are more Unionists than Separatists in Catalonia, that's a fact. No one in Europe is jumping to recognize the Catalan regional government's unilateral declaration of independence, simply because no one in Europe want to see it happening next in their own backyard, that's also a fact.

You are married to the state. Sad.
 
I hope they all seceed.

I'm British, but I would love to see Scotland and Wales get independence. I'm not a power hungry STATIST like you. I believe in true democracy and power as close to the grass roots as possible.

Real British people didn't want the EU and didnt want mass, unchecked immigration. This was all imposed on us by the power hungry leftist state.
Funny how large part of Scotland wants to leave the UK because they want to be part of EU eh? That surely makes your ethno-nationalist narrative difficult.

You are married to the state. Sad.
Yet you ignore political reality and pragmatism in this situation, even more sad.
 
Funny how large part of Scotland wants to leave the UK because they want to be part of EU eh? That surely makes your ethno-nationalist narrative difficult.


Yet you ignore political reality and pragmatism in this situation, even more sad.

George Washington: "but but, its pragmatic to stay under British control... wu wu what about the economy"

He would never be a whiny bitch like that. He fought for independence and principles.
 
George Washington: "but but, its pragmatic to stay under British control... wu wu what about the economy"

He would never be a whiny bitch like that. He fought for independence and principles.

I don't know what's more pathetic, Catalonia's half-assed "declaration of independence" being compared to that of the United States', or Carles Puigdemont being compared to George Washington.

For once, when the United States became an independent nation, King George did not actually have to ask the Americans "did you declared independence or not?".

Once American Independence was declared, George Washington personally lead his men into battle and shed his blood, sweats, and tears until the day the American colonists' dreams became reality, no matter what kind of threats were sent from London.

Here's your brave Catalan "George Washington" now:


Carles Puigdemont Turns Up in Belgium After Spain Seeks Prosecution
By RAPHAEL MINDER, PATRICK KINGSLEY and MILAN SCHREUER | OCT. 30, 2017

31catalonia2-master768.jpg

BARCELONA, Spain — Hours after the Spanish authorities announced that they would seek to prosecute Catalonia’s separatists for rebellion, Carles Puigdemont, the region’s dismissed leader, turned up on Monday in Belgium, where he may seek asylum.

Mr. Puigdemont’s reputation for unpredictability has grown with every turn of Catalonia’s secessionist drama. On Monday, he all but disappeared as the Madrid central government began using emergency laws to take over direct administration of Catalonia after its declaration of independence last week.

Speculation had mounted as to what he was up to over the course of the day, until a lawyer in Belgium finally ended the mystery surrounding Mr. Puigdemont’s whereabouts late Monday.

“I have been consulted by Puigdemont and he asked me to protect his interests in the future in Belgium,” said Paul Bekaert, a Flemish lawyer.

Mr. Bekaert said that the two men had met in Belgium and that the conversation was “about what possibly could come, whatever the Spanish government has ready for him.”

Mr. Bekaert emphasized his “more than 30 years of experience with extradition and political asylum” cases, including with Basques who were fighting extradition to Spain to face trial on terrorism charges.
Belgium is virtually the only national government in Europe that has been even remotely sympathetic to Mr. Puigdemont’s pleas for mediation, not least perhaps because the country has faced separatist tensions of its own led by Flemish hard-liners.

Awkwardly, Brussels is also the headquarters of a European Union bureaucracy that has held the Catalan secessionists at arms’ length, for fear of upsetting Spain, one of the bloc’s largest member states, and stoking forces of fragmentation in other parts of the Continent.

On Monday, while there was no official confirmation that Mr. Puigdemont had gone to Brussels, the Belgian and Spanish news media variously suggested that he had arrived for consultations, to seek political asylum, or to even declare a Catalan “government in exile.”

The speculation kicked into high gear not long after Spain’s attorney general, José Manuel Maza, called around noon in Madrid for the prosecution of Mr. Puigdemont and 19 other Catalan politicians, stopping short of ordering their immediate arrest.

Mr. Maza said he wanted the Catalan politicians to appear “urgently” in court in Madrid. A decision would be left to Spanish judges whether to charge or jail them. The politicians could face 30 years in prison for the most serious of the potential charges, which included rebellion and sedition.

Officially, the Belgian government said it had no knowledge of Mr. Puigdemont’s presence in the country.

But the statements of some officials seemed to hint at an openness to accepting Mr. Puigdemont and other Catalan officials if they chose exile.

“It is not unrealistic, if you see the situation at this moment, and the repression from Madrid and the prison sentences with which they are threatening, that the question is whether such a person still has a chance to a fair trial of course,” Belgium’s migration minister, Theo Francken, told VTM News, a Belgian television station, over the weekend.

“That’s where we enter into a difficult diplomatic situation with the Spanish government,” he added.

Mr. Francken is a member of the New Flemish Alliance party, which favors Flemish independence from the rest of Belgium and has historically had strong links to the Catalan separatists as a kindred movement. This month, members of the alliance hung the Catalan independence flag — the Estelada — in the Belgian Parliament, in a gesture of support.

But Belgium’s prime minister, Charles Michel, has dismissed the possibility of granting asylum to Mr. Puigdemont, saying it “is absolutely not on the agenda” and called on Mr. Francken “not to fan the flames.”

Mr. Puigdemont’s arrival presents a direct challenge to Mr. Michel, a Federalist, who as the leader of a delicate government coalition will have to keep separatists in his own government in check while trying to maintain good diplomatic relations with Spain.
The Spanish news media had reported that Mr. Puigdemont had left Catalonia with five other deposed members of his cabinet, traveled by car to the southern French city of Marseille, and then by plane to Brussels.

In Spain, officials from Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy’s conservative Popular Party said their priority on Monday was to make sure Mr. Puigdemont did not try to stay in office, by insisting he remained leader of Catalonia, rather than worry about him escaping the country.

Fernando Martínez-Maíllo, a senior Popular Party official, characterized Mr. Puigdemont’s departure as “a desperate act.”

Albert Rivera, the leader of the Ciudadanos party, which is strongly opposed to secession, accused Mr. Puigdemont and his separatist leadership of “fleeing the country” while leaving his Catalan civil servants to resist and continue to break Spanish law.

Indeed, the forcible steps by the central government have now left Catalan civil servants and politicians with the painful choice of sticking to their secessionist plans and defying Madrid’s direct administration or facing the potential of criminal charges.

Not least, there was the important decision for separatist parties about whether to take part in regional elections called by Madrid or to risk sidelining themselves.

The two main Catalan parties — including Mr. Puigdemont’s Catalan European Democratic Party — said on Monday they would run in the elections, which are scheduled for Dec. 21, although perhaps no longer as part of the coalition that won the most parliamentary seats in 2015.

Germà Bel, a separatist Catalan lawmaker, said Mr. Puigdemont’s possible hopes of running a government from exile was “symbolic.”

“I don’t know of anyone who’s run a government from overseas,” he said. “Even Charles de Gaulle didn’t run a government from overseas.”

But he argued that it would be hard for Mr. Rajoy’s government to maintain control over Catalonia for an extended period.

The decision by pro-independence parties to take part in the December elections meant that they “at least implicitly” accept they are still part of Spain — no small concession.

“This election has been called by the Spanish government under Spanish law — and it will be an election run within the state,” Mr. Bel said.

With the emergency measures taken over the weekend, Mr. Rajoy opted not to appoint a caretaker leader of Catalonia.

Instead, the country’s deputy prime minister, Soraya Sáenz de Santamaría, took over the management of the Catalan administration from Madrid, and dispatched a senior central government official to Barcelona on Monday.

Juan Ignacio Zoido, the Spanish interior minister, said on Monday that the takeover of the Catalan police force, known as the Mossos, had gone smoothly. He fired the Mossos police chief, Josep Lluís Trapero, over the weekend and appointed the deputy leader of the force, Ferran López, to the post.

Under the emergency measures allowed by Article 155 of the Spanish Constitution, the provision invoked by Mr. Rajoy to take control of Catalonia, the national government could replace the 17,000 officers of the Mossos with Spanish police officers.

But Mr. Zoido said that “at no point did we consider eliminating the Mossos police corps.”

Mr. Zoido called on separatist leaders to remove their personal belongings from their offices on Monday and to leave, focusing solely on preparing for the December elections, as candidates.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/world/europe/Carlos-puigdemont-Belgium-Spain.html
 
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they should stop being pussies and rise up against their government and revolt and create the greatest country on earth.

murica.
 
I hope they all seceed.

I'm British, but I would love to see Scotland and Wales get independence. I'm not a power hungry STATIST like you. I believe in true democracy and power as close to the grass roots as possible.

Real British people didn't want the EU and didnt want mass, unchecked immigration. This was all imposed on us by the power hungry leftist state.

Will all due respect if you support a independant scoltland, Catalonia, Basque Country, united Ireland you'd be better off climbing over to the left side of the fence as that's where traditionally most support has come from and still does
 
man ... you are a slave to the state. Do you even freedom?

Do your nonsensical responses actually have ANYTHING of substance to add in regards to your "Catalan George Washington" stirring shit up, made Catalonia lost their long-held autonomy, then high-tail it outta there when the going gets rough and left everyone else behind holding the bag?

Shit, even the Kurdish president had the dencency to take all the blame and resigns after the plan backfired, and he had 93% of his people's support!
 
Do your nonsensical responses actually have ANYTHING of substance to add in regards to your "Catalan George Washington" stirring shit up, made Catalonia lost their long-held autonomy, then high-tail it outta there when the going gets rough and left everyone else behind holding the bag?

Shit, even the Kurdish president had the dencency to take all the blame and resigns after the plan backfired, and he had 93% of his people's support!

He is in Belgium because Spain wants to arrest him.

He is also trying to get support from separatist movements in Belgium
 
I hope they all seceed.

I'm British, but I would love to see Scotland and Wales get independence. I'm not a power hungry STATIST like you. I believe in true democracy and power as close to the grass roots as possible.

Real British people didn't want the EU and didnt want mass, unchecked immigration. This was all imposed on us by the power hungry leftist state.

Do Wales even want independence?
 
He is in Belgium because Spain wants to arrest him.

That's what being a leader is all about. You take actions, and prepare to deal with the consequences resulted from your actions. You don't let your people drown in the shitstorm you brought upon them. Think about people like Catalan chief of police, who is now out of a job because he carried out Puidgemont's orders!

How the hell do you actually compare this spineless, reckless, and irresponsible lot to George Washington in this conversation is beyond logic and reasons. :confused:

He is also trying to get support from separatist movements in Belgium

It's realistically impossible for a province to achieve independence without securing supports from a world power. The American rebels had the French Empire's backing on their quest for independence from Britain, and Puidgemont think he can break away from Spain with the support from...the Flemish? o_O

That's not just garden-variety stupidity that you're currently cheering for. That's sheer lunacy.
 
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...

The Americans have the French Empire's backing on their quest for independence, and Puidgemont think he can do it with with the Flemish?

...
French Empire ? It was a monarchy.
 
Gooner....

Bruh...

BRUH<1>

The separatist movement you are favoring is both Leftist leaning and still supports the evil EU and seeks membership with them if they would become an independent country despite the fact the EU has made it clear it won't support them.

This ain't what you're trying to make it out to be my son.{<huh}
 
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