Catch Wrestling United III

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If you have some serious critique/advice on the match I'd be glad to hear

awesome for posting!


I would say 3 things popped out to me.


1. In the clinch grappling you let him get his head into position to much. His head should not be under your chin like that!

2. When you attempted to sit up into the arm bar a couple times you almost made it. Think about switching your hips or Scissor your legs to get your hips down and come up to your knees right away.

3. Looked to me like you could have punished him more as he was under you attempting to stop your stacking. No joke looked like you could have given him the ol'. Knee/shin on face as we was balled up under you. Remember this a Catch tourney. No shame in giving him the choice of pain vs. Letting go of the arm.
 
If Boyd says Kris is legit, he is legit also too much bitching not enough training.get to the mats.

Curious why you say that?

Also, Queens County Crippler? Whereabouts? Where do you train out of? Always looking for local grapplers.
 
The final match between the guy who beat me (blue) and Tsuyoshi Kosaka's student. A pretty highly ranked pancrase fighter who's name escapes me.


You didn't do as bad as you said you did! Come back and kick more ass at the next one :).
 
I train out of carmine zocchi bjj acadamy of queens i hold the rank of bluebelt.
 
Of which I did neither. The best answers he was going to get would be from the source, everything else is just hearsay.



.

I wasn't accusing you KJ, just the others :).


And I wasnt suggesting Cecchine and Shannon are frauds, but both are pretty controversial figures.


I think another major problem with the current catch situation is that none of the major catch 'promoters' are/were world class competitors themselves or have produced world class grapplers.

Ken Shamrock is batshit insane, but everyone knows his legit and would respect his claims in regards to catch and what not. When you have guys who essentially have only trained with the former generation of greats and produce instructional s without they themselves doing anything too spectacular it is the perfect situation for drama.


Things will change though :).
 
If Boyd says Kris is legit, he is legit also too much bitching not enough training.get to the mats.

Why? With all due respect, Boyd Ritchie is a nobody (I'm a nobody, too, so no disrespect intended) so why is his word gold? I had never heard of him until this thread. Is he a somebody in the catch community? Have a great competition record? Saved a kitten from a tree?
 
I think the most legit guy out there who doesn't have all this carnie-esque baggage would have to be Roy Wood, since he officially took over from Billy Riley and found success as a Freestyle coach as well, and he's coaching Maria Dunn in Freestyle at the Olympics in London. If anyone can form Catch into a sport it's probably Roy and Andrea Wood and the Snake Pit due to their experience working in Freestyle wrestling.
 
Also another scenario Goat Meal hasn't considered, but is equally valid, is Kosen666 getting other Judokas mixed up with Kris based on memory of their experiences at that gym merging.

Kosen666 was trying to recollect if he had trained with Kris 10-12 years prior to his post, among how many other Judokas would have been at that gym. He wasn't sure on Kris to begin with. He remembers Kris as a Greenbelt because that was their direct interaction, he would have seen him with his greenbelt and they both had the same Sensei (Nakamura). He doesn't remember beyond that, because either Kris left, or he left, or both left.

But, kosen666 remembers the information of a BJJ Bluebelt under Julio Fernandez in Vermont (while training under Koji Murakami in Montreal) anecdotally. He makes no mention he saw Kris with a blue belt in a BJJ setting, and because of the gap in time (10+ years and counting) it's more than plausible it was another Judoka, perhaps another Greenbelt at that time who was the BJJ blue belt and that kosen666 mixed the two up. Combined with Kris saying he has no belt in BJJ on multiple occasions, it's equally possible this is the case.

Ergo the only detail relevant to your inquiry is Kris' Judo ranking, which can be considered as at least Greenbelt and checked via Nakamura and the Shidokan. Any grading further beyond that can be checked with the governing body of Judo in Canada, apparently, but this was according to the mess that was 'full contact' on that bullshido thread, so it's probably better if you have a judo bb in canada you can contact that isn't a headcase to see how you can find out more info.
 
I think the most legit guy out there who doesn't have all this carnie-esque baggage would have to be Roy Wood, since he officially took over from Billy Riley and found success as a Freestyle coach as well, and he's coaching Maria Dunn in Freestyle at the Olympics in London. If anyone can form Catch into a sport it's probably Roy and Andrea Wood and the Snake Pit due to their experience working in Freestyle wrestling.

I don't know, i think it needs to be linked to MMA. Just like BJJ became successful. I mean that doesn't need to be the only way of course, but having CACC based grapplers doing well in MMA events is the fasted way to get the art to the masses. Of course that could be because im in the MMA business and that is what i know, compare to other avenues.......

Would be nice if more announcers talked about it.

That's just off the top of my head tho. Doesn't seem to be alot of interest in it tho. Im always suprised when i come into this thread to mention so and so fighter has connections to CACC and will be fighting on TV or PPV and no one in here is talking about it or seems to know or care.......

CACC is and odd art.:icon_conf
 
I'm emailing Carl Abaddah back and forth now. I'll wait until our correspondence is through but will say it's all in favor of Kris and I don't mind posting that. Just going to get a few more details.
 
I don't know, i think it needs to be linked to MMA. Just like BJJ became successful. I mean that doesn't need to be the only way of course, but having CACC based grapplers doing well in MMA events is the fasted way to get the art to the masses. Of course that could be because im in the MMA business and that is what i know, compare to other avenues.......

Would be nice if more announcers talked about it.

That's just off the top of my head tho. Doesn't seem to be alot of interest in it tho. Im always suprised when i come into this thread to mention so and so fighter has connections to CACC and will be fighting on TV or PPV and no one in here is talking about it or seems to know or care.......

CACC is and odd art.:icon_conf

When someone enters MMA with a BJJ background, they've trained in the Gi and more often than not taken part in Gi competitions. They may have also taken part in no gi BJJ competitions where the scoring is virtually the same as the Gi competition. They have that sport background. Even with Eddie Bravo's strictly no gi 10thPJJ, they take part in no gi competitions that have that scoring system and Bravo still got his blackbelt in the Gi from Jean Jacques Machado.

Very few out there representing Catch, even if they have a legitimate albeit an indirect lineage, actually train and compete in the sport style of Catch. Even the sport's greats like a Sakuraba, Tamura, Funaki, Suzuki, Barnett, Shamrocks etc haven't taken part in Catch rules competitions where a pin can end a match (though with Combat Wrestling it results in points accumulation). The closest might be with these guys having an amateur background, but we're talking two seperate sports with their own rulesets.

Since the BJJ of today looks nothing like the BJJ of 1993 with all the cross-training and advances competitors have made, and the looser style and rulset of Submission Grappling competitions (though still somewhat based on BJJ scoring), there's less to discern Catch Wrestling -- especially how it evolved in Japan -- from the more generic Submission Grappling. If the Gi and Gi competition rules and scoring is what continues to define BJJ as its own entity, the same needs to happen for Catch with pins and submissions in competition, otherwise it will just be absorbed, assimilated and forgotten.
 
Per Carl, Kris does in fact have ties to Eddy Carpentier. Carl and Kris both trained with Eddy for 5 or 6 years in "pro/catch wrestling". As far as his catch lineage goes, that's enough for me and all I wanted from Kris yesterday and what I didn't find in that Bullshido thread.
 
Congratulations Alexandre! Footwork looked good, though did keep his chin a little high.
 
Congratulations Alexandre! Footwork looked good, though did keep his chin a little high.

Yup, i would define his stand-up style as '****y' :icon_evil

He rely on his speed/reflex, they dont alway listen to our advice y'a know! :cool:
 
He may find out the hard way if he's not careful.
 
Similar to the Greg Nelson video I posted a while back.

 
Similar to the Greg Nelson video I posted a while back.



Perfect timing on this video, this is what i was trying to explain to CALIBUR when he asked for a critique of his grappling. Hopefully he comes back in here and gets a chance to see this and then notice in his video that his oppoenent had this head position abit during there stand up clinch wrestling.
 
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