China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

[ShinkanPo]

Welcome to the future then citizen 1894673. You can be at complete ease with the facts and implications of China's social credit system. The glaringly obvious fact that is resembles the basic societal/governmental system of pretty much every dystopian novel of note is as funny as it is sad and scary with it's implications for the future as China's influence spreads around the globe.

But carry on citizen, wouldn't want you to lose some of that credit score engaging in such conversations.

Its okay you know because innocents were blown by US drones anway so lets not shit on the Chinese lets trust them.

 

[TemujinKhan]

What about what about what about what about what about!
What about what about what about what about what about!
What about what about what about what about what about!
What about what about what about what about what about!
What about what about what about what about what about!

Yea exactly, what about. Everything is relative, sometimes examples from other states need to be brought in to bring perspective. You can't change others if you can't change yourself.

 

[ShinkanPo]

http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2018-03/16/content_7975307.htm
Chinese students blacklisted for refusing to carry out compulsory military training

Only black listed? I think in most countries with National Service ( conscription) you can face jail time for refusing. Its like resisting the draft.

Singapore has national service although I am not sure about the punishment for avoiding it.

 

[TemujinKhan]

Never thought about the bad behavior of Chinese tourists being a factor. Came across this elsewhere:

Lol, people been ripping on chinese tourists so much the CCP had to enact draconian measures to change their rep.

 

[Rod1]

Yea exactly, what about. Everything is relative, sometimes examples from other states need to be brought in to bring perspective. You can't change others if you can't change yourself.

Compare South Korea or Japan to North Korea.

Gringos arent the best people in the world, but they do like when other countries adopt their form of governance and their form of governance does brings the best on a country.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

India, Pakistan, and UAE are good ones. Not sure about Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

I love lots of things about Turkey and its people but they are another group of holocaust deniers. To be clear I’m referring to the Armenian genocide.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I don't think they'll expand into controlling business this way, why would they? The whole project of China since the 80s is to transition to a market economy and they try to make their country as business friendly as possible and applying this to the business big wigs would scare off foreign businesses. Take the way they deal with corruption for example. If they uncover a bribery racket, they almost always only punish the party members and government officials receiving the bribes(sometimes with the death penalty) but not the private sector actors who bribed them.

Unfortunately, stuff like this is usually rolled out to control the masses at the bottom of the pyramid, not the guys making bank at the top.

The Chinese thru out its History have experience great progress and wealth only to be undermined by Emperors with unrealistic or mis calculated policies.


Chairman Mao unified China in the 50s only to implement the Cultural revolution that caused a setback.

So I wont be surprised if Mr.Xi extends this credit system to business practice and ruin the ecconomy once again.


Its not that Mr.Xi is bad or evil he may really have good intentions but that does not mean it is the right way or it would work.

 

[TemujinKhan]

@TemujinKhan

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...inas-dangerous-dream-of-urban-control/553097/



https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-sig...-using-apps-to-snitch-on-neighbors-1514566110



Now, this highlights a few key things.

1. There is a digital tool for reporting fellow citizens. This is also referenced in the Wall St. J article this article references.

2. There are citizens that are understandably uncomfortable with the idea of such and it's likely they are remember, or are influenced by fellow citizens that remember, the Cultural Revolution and all that came with it in regards to informing on ones fellow citizens.

3. As governmental and social pressure increases with the ongoing development of this program, which isn't designated to reach its fuller super sayan form till 2020, resistance to such a program is likely to be eroded. That doesn't even factor in those communities that will simply have no issue with utilizing it. And once those elders that remember the CR are dead and gone and only citizens having grown up in this brave new future take their place in Chinese society?

Fair enough, although I don't know the extent of this digital tool they are supposedly implementing, it sounds a bit extreme for the CCP to do this when things are working fine for them at the moment.

It could be an app that asks general questions to the owner about their neighbors, focus group type stuff. Maybe to be used for marketing purposes, or it could be a full out reporting tool, which would not be received well by the people at this time. The article does state that people rejected using the tool, so its not like anyone was directly forced to use it, yet. There's not enough evidence yet to make a clear determination imo.

I have no allusions to what the CCP is, nor did I state that I agree with everything they do. Mao was a great soldier but a horrible leader, no need to return to Mao era policies. Xi is a sharp guy though, so it would be a surprising move for him to implement this to the extent thats being speculated.

I suspect that this is all more about $$$$ than anything, what corporation wouldn't want a complete demographic profile on every citizen?

But also I think the more westerners try to change the Chinese the more they will stay the same, culturally they are polar opposites on some levels. The west has embraced individualism while the east focuses more on communal values.

They are a confucian nation for 1000s of years, western style democracy might not work for them the way it does for westerners. Let them sort it out, as long as they don't impose it on other nations then I have no issue with it. And I do like some aspects of the system like rewarding good behaviour for doing charitable work and pollution cleanup, theres some creative thinking going on there, new ideas.

So far nothing bad has really happened, if it ends up being a shitshow then I'll condemn it at that time.

 

[Trotsky]

I love lots of things about Turkey and its people but they are another group of holocaust deniers. To be clear I’m referring to the Armenian genocide.

I've never been, but the Turkish people I know (small and spurious sample of educated urbanites) don't fit the bill.

But I've also heard terrible things about customary blind spots re the Kurds.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I agree to a degree.

Its easier to be self-critical after you have given up your world power status.

Considering the power of the US both economic and militarily its a relief that their population still retain "liberal democracy" status and can be counted on it outside some blunders.

When Germany was on the level that the US is today WW2 happened and the British Empire literally fucked with the entire world.

I have to do research about American Colonialism in the late 20th century from what I remember in my previous readings by the 1910s more and more intelectuals in the US became more self critical lobbied the government againts colonizing Cuba,Guam Korea etc. stating that it goes againts American values later more and more members of the public and politicians in the USA supported the indepenence movement in the Philippines even big business oligarchs like the Carneigie etc.


Even some American Governors to the Philippines like Francis B. Harrison suported the movement he is such a strong suporter of independent Philippines that years after he has retired and returned to the US he ask that when he dies he be burried in The Philippines he eventually died and buried in the USA but was later exhumed and brought to the Philippines which he is still burried today and was posthumously given an Honnorary Filipino Citizenship.

And they named a shopping mall in his honnor.


Even after 9/11 you see lots of American liberals even defend Islam againts the perceived anti Muslim war being launch by the Bush administration. There are lots of anti war protest, compared that to India after a series of terror attacts by Muslims you will see Hindu nationalists in the streets holding plackards yelling "we want war" and urging the Indian government to wage war againts Pakistan.

 

[TemujinKhan]

Compare South Korea or Japan to North Korea.

Gringos arent the best people in the world, but they do like when other countries adopt their form of governance and their form of governance does brings the best on a country.

Well yeah obviously, doesn't help that NK have a low IQ peasant bloodline running the nation. Also doesn't help when the whole world places trade sanctions on a starving nation with no arable land. Can't eat minerals, can't farm shit in NK, they need trade.

Not nice blocking trade routes to a starving nation either. But NK is like the perfect storm of bad luck. The OG Kim did some good fighting the Japanese so he got the rep and backing from Russia and took the northern part, but like Mao, a great warrior does not make a great leader.

But also, when the whole world hates you and you're a tiny war ravaged nation who made enemies with the biggest kid on the block, you're kinda fucked either way, Communist or not.

 

[Rod1]

Well yeah obviously, doesn't help that NK have a low IQ peasant bloodline running the nation. Also doesn't help when the whole world places trade sanctions on a starving nation with no arable land. Can't eat minerals, can't farm shit in NK, they need trade.

South Koreans were low IQ peasants in the 70s, now they are a tech hub.

Not nice blocking trade routes to a starving nation either. But NK is like the perfect storm of bad luck. The OG Kim did some good fighting the Japanese so he got the rep and backing from Russia and took the northern part, but like Mao, a great warrior does not make a great leader.

They shouldnt had gone for nukes if they didnt wanted sanctions.

But also, when the whole world hates you and you're a tiny war ravaged nation who made enemies with the biggest kid on the block, you're kinda fucked either way, Communist or not.

North Korea hasnt been war ravaged for decades, they had the backing of Russia and then China and they still managed to fail.

They failed because China and Russia enabled the totalitarian Kim dynasty.

 

[Rod1]

I have to do research about American Colonialism in the late 20th century

Abraham Lincoln was strongly against the Mexican-American war. He called Manifest Destiny as unAmerican.

Meanwhile France invaded Mexico and established a monarchy without a second thought.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Abraham Lincoln was strongly against the Mexican-American war. He called Manifest Destiny as unAmerican.

Meanwhile France invaded Mexico and established a monarchy without a second thought.

Was that Napoleon the 3rd? I think France intention is to eventually take control half or even the rest of the USA by inducing a Civil War between north south and later occupy the Southern states.


Condisdering the amount of Military power the US has they could have invaded more countries not just Iraq and they certainly have the ability to wage unlimited war.

 

[loyalyolayal]

I have to do research about American Colonialism in the late 20th century from what I remember in my previous readings by the 1910s more and more intelectuals in the US became more self critical lobbied the government againts colonizing Cuba,Guam Korea etc. stating that it goes againts American values later more and more members of the public and politicians in the USA supported the indepenence movement in the Philippines even big business oligarchs like the Carneigie etc.


Even some American Governors to the Philippines like Francis B. Harrison suported the movement he is such a strong suporter of independent Philippines that years after he has retired and returned to the US he ask that when he dies he be burried in The Philippines he eventually died and buried in the USA but was later exhumed and brought to the Philippines which he is still burried today and was posthumously given an Honnorary Filipino Citizenship.

And they named a shopping mall in his honnor.


Even after 9/11 you see lots of American liberals even defend Islam againts the perceived anti Muslim war being launch by the Bush administration. There are lots of anti war protest, compared that to India after a series of terror attacts by Muslims you will see Hindu nationalists in the streets holding plackards yelling "we want war" and urging the Indian government to wage war againts Pakistan.

Harrison Plaza. That 80's nostalgia.

 

[Cid]

30 million civilians murdered by US military since WW2, yeah you're the 'good guys'. Love how you spread that 'liberal democracy'. Like all those people who were 'liberated' from being alive.

On topic: the term "social credit" sounds odd, but really isn't this about simply following the law? How is this any worse than californias 3 strike rule? its not. Dont be an asshole, don't start fights, dont litter like a jackass, dont cause distrubance in airports, etc. If you do you get demerit points just like you do if you drive like an asshole and if you drive like an asshole too much we take your license away. Same deal.

But the term social credit sounds terrifying, probably made up term by western news with no direct translation to mandarin. But yeah, lets nuke the commies, blah blah.

Source for 30 million people?

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Never thought about the bad behavior of Chinese tourists being a factor. Came across this elsewhere:

Lol! I just started a thread about this very topic in mayberry

 

[ShinkanPo]

Harrison Plaza. That 80's nostalgia.

Now full of hookers maybe F.B Harisson is the first American sexpat!


Hah. If you ever studied in Paco,Malate,PCU,SAS. Manila Zoo and Harisson means cutting classes!

 

[ShinkanPo]

Source for 30 million people?

This could be his source.

I googled 30 million killed www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-killed-more-than-20-million-people-in-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051/amp

 

[ShinkanPo]

Ha I wonder if this is what we needed in Manila @steve38 @loyalyolayal people who sings loud Karaoek should get bad social credits and their Karaoke privilages taken away.