China's Xinjiang region legalizes Muslim concentration camps to educate and transform extremists

[InternetHero]

Why are some posters advocating that half a million, or perhaps a million people be put in reeducation camps?

This is not right. These are not hardcore tribal terrorists of the Pashtun supported by a backwards people, nor are they even strict Muslims in anything like a Wahhabi/Saudi Arabian sense. Even so, taking all of "those people," and forcing them into camps to forcibly destroy their culture and lives would be wrong.

In Xinjiang it is a disaster, where it is safe to say at least 95% of the people are not terrorists, do not support terrorists, and just want to be left alone.

Yet they are being hauled off to be choked with authoritarian propaganda, many are being tortured, quite a few being "disappeared", and the lives of families, brothers, sisters, and so many ordinary people destroyed. Who can look at this and say, "Yeah, well you have to break a few eggs to get those terrorists..." it is not right, and in this case not remotely true.

Mostly innocent people are being brutalized and propagandized, full stop.

 

[InternetHero]

You'd think mass incarceration in reeducation camps is something we could all agree is wrong but sadly I guess not. A lot of folks revealed themselves to be amoral scumbags ITT, we even have one halfwit trying to spin this into an anti-Bernie angle.

I think a lot of people rush in to make wrong, unfeeling, glib statements about being tough on terrorists, then try to walk back those statements when the situation does not fit, then their "allies" rush in to defend what is honor-less for the sake of saving face.

Then, some just hate Muslims so much they do not care about innocent people being crushed, as long as those people have the letter "M" stuck to their identity.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think a lot of people rush in to make wrong, unfeeling, glib statements about being tough on terrorists, then try to walk back those statements when the situation does not fit, then their "allies" rush in to defend what is honor-less for the sake of saving face.

Then, some just hate Muslims so much they do not care about innocent people being crushed, as long as those people have the letter "M" stuck to their identity.

The article itself even points out the Chinese government has produced precious little evidence of this so called extremism and yet some people here are motivated to believe the PRC because of their own hatred for Muslims. Quite sad to see some people have allowed politics to have rotted out their own capacity for empathy to this extent.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Why are some posters advocating that half a million, or perhaps a million people be put in reeducation camps?

This is not right. These are not hardcore tribal terrorists of the Pashtun supported by a backwards people, nor are they even strict Muslims in anything like a Wahhabi/Saudi Arabian sense. Even so, taking all of "those people," and forcing them into camps to forcibly destroy their culture and lives would be wrong.

In Xinjiang it is a disaster, where it is safe to say at least 95% of the people are not terrorists, do not support terrorists, and just want to be left alone.

Yet they are being hauled off to be choked with authoritarian propaganda, many are being tortured, quite a few being "disappeared", and the lives of families, brothers, sisters, and so many ordinary people destroyed. Who can look at this and say, "Yeah, well you have to break a few eggs to get those terrorists..." it is not right, and in this case not remotely true.

Mostly innocent people are being brutalized and propagandized, full stop.

It's the sort of thing that produces more terrorists
Which then, of course, becomes a post-hoc justification and the cycle intensifies

 

[Islam Imamate]

It's the sort of thing that produces more terrorists
Which then, of course, becomes a post-hoc justification and the cycle intensifies

The funny thing to me is that the people who use the existence of Islamist terrorist as a justification for oppression of Muslims have a non-negligible overlap with those who say the primary purpose of the 2nd amendment is to resist government tyranny. You'd think that they could actually come to understand why some Muslims who live under oppressive governments would resort to insurgency given their own stated willingness to do the same under similar circumstances.

 

[Khalabeeb Stiopic]

Chinese doing something good for once. Not bad

 

[closequarters]

I used to live in xinjiange. It probably would have been a better place if they had of done this earlier.

Hey Bushman, are these ethnic chinese muslims or middle eastern immigrants in the region?

 

[InternetHero]

It's the sort of thing that produces more terrorists
Which then, of course, becomes a post-hoc justification and the cycle intensifies

Well, that's a tricky one.

In a lot of cases if you kill/suppress terrorists enough, the populace runs out of able bodied men to commit atrocities. The Syrian proxy war bled a lot of the excitable young men dry. The war ground up most of the fanatics, and depressed the potential fanatics.

At the same time "brutal" or dastardly tactics can work... this is not quite that though, this is outright cultural destruction.

Allow me to paint a picture of what life is like in Xinjiang from a friend who visited recently

- There are checkpoints literally everywhere. If you so much as drive to a stop light your car may be checked, searched, and ID verified. If you do not have your ID, you go to jail. Stop a gas station? The police will check your vehicle.

- Cameras and drones watching literally everything in a horrible 1984 type reality.

- All signs expressed of any strong belief in religion, family, people... reeducation awaits... not in a way agreeable, narcissistic westerners might imagine it, in an old war, Confucian sense - your family, friends, ECT.

It is also an arm of the police state that intimidates and spies on Xinjiang minorities in other countries and may scrutinize family members staying overseas and persecute their families till they come home... for more reeducation.

- All of this is hammered in by the same 1984 style insistence on a foreign language, foreign identity, and foreign lifestyle that you can adopt, or be reeducated, full stop.

State imam, mayor, or other minority is only 95% loyal? Replaced, persecuted, ECT.

The Han do not consider the niceties and civilities we built into our culture through a couple of thousand of years of hard work. They are scientifically interested in using a will to power combined with technology to subjugate, destroy, and dehumanize anyone they deem a threat.

We want to believe in the power of the human spirit, but without real power and ideas behind that spirit, the bad-guys audacity wins.

 

[Orgasmo]

The funny thing to me is that the people who use the existence of Islamist terrorist as a justification for oppression of Muslims have a non-negligible overlap with those who say the primary purpose of the 2nd amendment is to resist government tyranny. You'd think that they could actually come to understand why some Muslims who live under oppressive governments would resort to insurgency given their own stated willingness to do the same under similar circumstances.

By all means, resist tyrannical governments. I said from the start that I am adamantly against China's oppressive practices not just towards Muslims, but religion in general. We should condemn the Communist government for its authoritarian rule. I just don't think it's our place to police the world as non-interventionist. Western attempts to meddle in the Middle East only created more instability in the past 6 decades.

 

[InternetHero]

Hey Bushman, are these ethnic chinese muslims or middle eastern immigrants in the region?

Central Asian migrants from long, long, long ago, over a thousand years in most cases.

Migrants to a land that is not palatable, but a lot of which looks like a set for the moon landing.

 

[closequarters]

Central Asian migrants from long, long, long ago, over a thousand years in most cases.

Migrants to a land that is not palatable, but a lot of which looks like a set for the moon landing.

Thanks. After your post I did some quick Googles about the area. At quick glance it seems like there is some dispute if China should even govern Xinjiang.

 

[bushman505]

Hey Bushman, are these ethnic chinese muslims or middle eastern immigrants in the region?

Not immigrants, they are from the region. Uighurs do t look Chinese though so they are a minority I guess. An ethnically Chinese Muslim person is caked a hui (way). In xinjiange you won’t find most uighurs speaking Chinese either.

 

[closequarters]

Not immigrants, they are from the region. Uighurs do t look Chinese though so they are a minority I guess. An ethnically Chinese Muslim person is caked a hui (way). In xinjiange you won’t find most uighurs speaking Chinese either.

Thanks.

 

[Islam Imamate]

By all means, resist tyrannical governments. I said from the start that I am adamantly against China's oppressive practices not just towards Muslims, but religion in general. We should condemn the Communist government for its authoritarian rule. I just don't think it's our place to police the world as non-interventionist. Western attempts to meddle in the Middle East only created more instability in the past 6 decades.

I'm certainly not calling for intervention in China, that would fucking nuts. I'm just saying that the tough guy conservatives who say that they own guns to resist tyrannical government should be well poised to understand why many Muslims do just that.

 

[NoSmilez]

China cracks down on Christianity as well. They don't see it strictly as a religious thing but rather outside influences that fund these religions that can undermine the party. Even the Tibetan Dalai Lama was some kind of CIA asset. China doesn't like any foreign religious figure with outside money to come in and "help". They have more issues with American Protestants missionary types vs Roman Catholics.

 

[WTF2008]

China cracks down on Christianity as well. They don't see it strictly as a religious thing but rather outside influences that fund these religions that can undermine the party. Even the Tibetan Dalai Lama was some kind of CIA asset. China doesn't like any foreign religious figure with outside money to come in and "help". They have more issues with American Protestants missionary types vs Roman Catholics.

China is more capatilist than America.
Our largest corporations only exist because they manufacture there.
You guys are arguing with yourselves.

 

[InternetHero]

I'm certainly not calling for intervention in China, that would fucking nuts. I'm just saying that the tough guy conservatives who say that they own guns to resist tyrannical government should be well poised to understand why many Muslims do just that.

I think some international sanctions and much more condemnation from the "international order" are in order.

A lot of money men and a lot of squirming diplomats though are loathe to really do the right thing in these situations.

They would hide behind realpolitik, where there is no realpolitik to be found. The West, and oil Middle East for that matter, should hold the cards... but all those $$$, and all that fear will keep us shuffling the deck endlessly instead of playing the winning "resources and oil" hand.

 

[Seaside]

Central Asian migrants from long, long, long ago, over a thousand years in most cases.

Migrants to a land that is not palatable, but a lot of which looks like a set for the moon landing.

wait. the original population in kazakhstan was caucasoid irano afghan people. Conquering and race mixing and paternal lines being wiped out and driving other tribes further south (where their cousins the persians lived in what is now iran or tajikistan) resulted in what is now kazakhstan, and uzbekistan being very mixed. Where as turkmenistan less so because its a giant desert. And Iran was too populated and dense and hard terrain to own. Tajikistan was ignored given its entirely mountainous. What is kyrgzstan became asiatic given migration westward from mongoloids a little east and near the eastern border of where xinjiang now meets qinghai (if im not mistaken and remmeber correctly). But they did come from east. Some people argue that xinjiang was really caucasoid and some revionist white supremo types try to say the people were white like europeans but there is no real evidence for that but rather evidence suggesting an irano afghan population (which geographically makes sense) given the fact that modern day kazakhstan borders xinjiang and it would of been a distance not that hard to traverse.

Not immigrants, they are from the region. Uighurs do t look Chinese though so they are a minority I guess. An ethnically Chinese Muslim person is caked a hui (way). In xinjiange you won’t find most uighurs speaking Chinese either.

Thanks. After your post I did some quick Googles about the area. At quick glance it seems like there is some dispute if China should even govern Xinjiang.

bring back east turkesitan. The 2nd east turkestan socialist! republic!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_East_Turkestan_Republic

 

[WTF2008]

I'm certainly not calling for intervention in China, that would fucking nuts. I'm just saying that the tough guy conservatives who say that they own guns to resist tyrannical government should be well poised to understand why many Muslims do just that.

It wouldn't be nuts, it would actually be prudent.
We're being taken from the inside.
Giving up our resources to enrich other countries?

Give money to board members so the Chinese can have our natural resources. Ridiculous.

 

[m25105]

Chinese doing something good for once. Not bad

Another idiot.