International Chomsky: Israeli intervention in US ‘vastly overwhelms' anything Russia has done

But still less than UAE, Saudi Arabia, Canada, Mexico, Germany
Depends on what you're talking about. AIPAC? Sure, they don't directly lobby. Pro-Israel Lobbyists? Incorrect.
Now if we put that into some context:
Germany GDP - $3.5T
Canada GDP - $1.5T
Mexico GDP - $1T
Saudi GDP - $646B
UAE GDP - $350B
Israel GDP - $320B
Your WP article is from 2014. These numbers are from 2016.
The Pro-Israel Lobby donated $17 million, thats more than UAE.
 
... sorry, double posted?
 
Last edited:
@Starman,

Your post comes from a script. It is known as 'hasbara.' Israel spends a fortune on creating an image for the world that has nothing to do with reality and tries to make herself seem like the poor, innocent victim, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Your whole line is based on the false notion and the early zionist mantra of "a land without a people for a people without a land." Beyond that, it is abhorrent to deny the existence of these people, mostly Arab-Muslims, some Arab-Christians and even a small group of Arab-Jews.

If you honestly believe that Palestine never existed and these people are an Arab talking point, then you are crazy. Go read the TREATY OF PEACE WITH TURKEY SIGNED AT LAUSANNE which was signed on July 24, 1923. For reference, the document is more commonly called "the Treaty of Lausanne" And then go read the Palestinian citizenship order in council of 1925. The dates are important.

And if you're not a reader, which I'm sensing, but still care to understand how wrong your contention truly is, then take a few minutes and check this out:

 
You're talking about a state, I'm talking about a nation which are two different things. Under your logic Ukraine did not exist until it popped up on a map after the fall of the Soviet Union.

What do you mean under my logic? I have made no claims whatsoever. I'm simply asking you questions.

That said, what do you think is the difference between a nation and a state?

People in Palestine were politically a part of the Ottoman Empire but they did not see themselves at Ottoman nor did they speak Ottoman Turkish nor did they see their lands as Turkish lands. They were well aware of the unique religious significance of the land they lived on as were their neighbors.

What parts of the Ottoman empire were considered to be "Palestine", and what religious significance did those areas hold?

But since you are so obsessed with the state angle know that a century before Zionism ever started a Palestinian Arab by the name of Zahir al-Umar tried to revolt and separate Northern Palestine from the Ottoman Empire and nearly succeeded.

What made Zahir al-Umar a "Palestinian", and what areas constituted "Northern Palestine", and why?

So there's your head of state.

So a man who revolts against his sovereign ruler and loses is a head of state? Do I understand you correctly?

Its a nationality as is obvious to anyone who knows anything about the issue.

When was the nation of Palestine founded? Who was its first head of state? Who is the current head of state? What language did/do they speak? What are/were its borders and boundaries? What cultural monuments exist as evidence of this nation?

Palestine can refer to historic Palestine

What is historic Palestine? When was it founded? What language did they speak? Are there any cultural monuments? What were their borders?

The land currently making up Israel and the occupied territories

By what right or standard do you judge Israeli land to be "Palestinian"?

or merely the occupied territories. Anyone who has familial roots in that region that predate the arrival of the Zionists is a Palestinian which includes Christians and Jews on top of the Muslim majority.

You believe the idea of "Palestine" predates the idea of Israel? What are the etymological roots of Palestine?
 
@Starman,

WTF?

Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle refereed to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?
 
@Starman,

WTF?

Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle refereed to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?

I'm simply asking questions. If you'd like to answer them, you are more than welcome.
 
I'm simply asking questions. If you'd like to answer them, you are more than welcome.
I'm simply asking questions. If you'd like to answer them, you are more than welcome.
Pleas start a thread with these important questions. You have yet to respond to the answers. Do so there. This should be fun.

But, this is the thread where it is OK to finally say:
Israeli intervention in US ‘vastly overwhelms' anything Russia has done.
 
What do you mean under my logic? I have made no claims whatsoever. I'm simply asking you questions.

That said, what do you think is the difference between a nation and a state?
State refers to the government and the institutions under its control, nation refers to a people with a common culture and history.
What parts of the Ottoman empire were considered to be "Palestine", and what religious significance did those areas hold?
At the minimum the term referred to the administrative unit centered in Jerusalem but was also used as a general term for the holy land which encompassed an area around that administrative unit as well.
What made Zahir al-Umar a "Palestinian", and what areas constituted "Northern Palestine", and why?
The fact that he was born in Palestine.
So a man who revolts against his sovereign ruler and loses is a head of state? Do I understand you correctly?
He was the head a premodern state apparatus under the nominal sovereignty of a premodern empire. Not really a head of state in the modern sense but since you're insisting in a political manifestation I pointed you to a period when Northern Palestine was de facto independent and nearly de jure.
When was the nation of Palestine founded? Who was its first head of state? Who is the current head of state? What language did/do they speak? What are/were its borders and boundaries? What cultural monuments exist as evidence of this nation?
A nation does not require a head of state, a state does.
What is historic Palestine? When was it founded? What language did they speak? Are there any cultural monuments? What were their borders?
Historic Palestine is somewhat nebulous but in the 19th century referred to the area from the Eastern Mediterranean shore to the Jordan River and north of Rafah to the Litani River(now in modern Lebanon).
By what right or standard do you judge Israeli land to be "Palestinian"?
Even Zionist called the land Palestine, they just believed it belonged to them instead of the natives. So that point is not even disputed by the Zionists.
You believe the idea of "Palestine" predates the idea of Israel? What are the etymological roots of Palestine?
Definitely if by "Israel" you mean the modern nation-state of Israel.
 
Last edited:
What parts of the Ottoman empire were considered to be "Palestine", and what religious significance did those areas hold?

I am not pro Israel or pro Palestine. To be honest, I dislike both of them, but as far as I know, Palestine was the common name used until 1948 to describe the geographic region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. The first use of this name appeared in 12th century B.C. Today, this is described as Israel. So the name Palestine has very deep roots in this area.

If you ask me, they should name this country Palestine and this should be a place in which both groups, jews and muslims, live together. If you think about it, pushing for a new state, which tries to establish one main religion in an arabic region, is insane.

What could go wrong?
 
If you ask me, they should name this country Palestine and this should be a place in which both groups, jews and muslims, live together. If you think about it, pushing for a new state, which tries to establish one main religion in an arabic region, is insane.

What could go wrong?
This is increasingly what some Palestinians want; complete annexation of the Palestinian territories by Israel whereby all Palestinians are granted Israeli citizenship. But the Jewish-Israelis do not want this because it would mean the Jewish voting bloc would cease to be the majority.
 
I am not pro Israel or pro Palestine. To be honest, I dislike both of them, but as far as I know, Palestine was the common name used until 1948 to describe the geographic region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. The first use of this name appeared in 12th century B.C. Today, this is described as Israel. So the name Palestine has very deep roots in this area.

If you ask me, they should name this country Palestine and this should be a place in which both groups, jews and muslims, live together. If you think about it, pushing for a new state, which tries to establish one main religion in an arabic region, is insane.

What could go wrong?
Indeed.

This is increasingly what some Palestinians want; complete annexation of the Palestinian territories by Israel whereby all Palestinians are granted Israeli citizenship. But the Jewish-Israelis do not want this because it would mean the Jewish voting bloc would cease to be the majority.
This "one-state solution" is also what our traditional rabbis have wanted as well.

israel342747654_90e4c943fd.jpg
 
Pleas start a thread with these important questions. You have yet to respond to the answers. Do so there. This should be fun.

I haven't been provided any answers to my questions. I have, however, endeavored to respond to each post directed towards me. If you think I have failed to respond, you are free to point it out and I will endeavor to respond (again).

But, this is the thread where it is OK to finally say:
Israeli intervention in US ‘vastly overwhelms' anything Russia has done.

The only difference is Israel hasn't broken any laws, that I'm aware of.
 
I haven't been provided any answers to my questions. I have, however, endeavored to respond to each post directed towards me. If you think I have failed to respond, you are free to point it out and I will endeavor to respond (again).
Start a thread. Please.

The only difference is Israel hasn't broken any laws, that I'm aware of.
Like stealing our nuclear secrets and selling them to our sworn enemies? Like when they mass murdered Americans at sea? Or when they were blowing up American and British targets in Palestine as part of their ongoing terrorism against the native people of the region? Like how they were able to classify information pertaining to their involvement in 9/11? Where around 200 0f their spies were rounded up and then set free back to Israel on 'visa violations?"

Whose agents was it again in the pentagon that sent our kids off to die in Iraq based on total lies?

Wow, you are far more out-of-the-loop than I first suspected.
 
State refers to the government and the institutions under its control, nation refers to a people with a common culture and history.

Give me an example of Palestinian culture. What language do Palestinians speak? Where are their cultural monuments?

Additionally, if Palestine has never been a state, by what right or standard do you deem Israeli land to be "Palestinian"? And if there has never been a Palestinian state, why do so-called Palestinians want one now? And if Palestinians really are Jewish, Christian, and Muslim, why couldn't Israel be considered the Palestinian state? Which Jews are Palestinian and which aren't?

At the minimum the term referred to the administrative unit centered in Jerusalem but was also used as a general term for the holy land which encompassed an area around that administrative unit as well.

Again, please provide specifics. Are you suggesting that Jerusalem is and always was a part of "Palestine", and not Israel?

The fact that he was born in Palestine.

Again, what is/was Palestine? What were its borders? You have yet to explain what Palestine was, or what made it Palestine.

He was the head a premodern state apparatus under the nominal sovereignty of a premodern empire. Not really a head of state in the modern sense but since you're insisting in a political manifestation I pointed you to a period when Northern Palestine was de facto independent and nearly de jure.

You said he revolted and failed. You can't be the head of a state that never existed.

A nation does not require a head of state, a state does.

So there has never been a head of state, correct?

Historic Palestine is somewhat nebulous

There is no evidence of a historic Palestine. Its history isn't nebulous. It's non-existent.

but in the 19th century referred to the area from the Eastern Mediterranean shore to the Jordan River and north of Rafah to the Litani River(now in modern Lebanon).

Historical Israel predates the 19th century by millennia.

Even Zionist called the land Palestine, they just believed it belonged to them instead of the natives. So that point is not even disputed by the Zionists.

What do you mean by "zionist"?

Definitely if by "Israel" you mean the modern nation-state of Israel.

No. Let's use your definition. The nation of Israel.
 
Start a thread. Please.

No, this one will serve just as well.

Like stealing our nuclear secrets and selling them to our sworn enemies? Like when they mass murdered Americans at sea? Or when they were blowing up American and British targets in Palestine as part of their ongoing terrorism against the native people of the region? Like how they were able to classify information pertaining to their involvement in 9/11? Where around 200 0f their spies were rounded up and then set free back to Israel on 'visa violations?"

Whose agents was it again in the pentagon that sent our kids off to die in Iraq based on total lies?

Wow, you are far more out-of-the-loop than I first suspected.

I reckon so. Do you have any links to any reputable sources to verify any of these claims?
 
Give me an example of Palestinian culture. What language do Palestinians speak? Where are their cultural monuments?
They speak a dialect of Arabic. Various religious sites like Bethlehem are part of their cultural heritage.
Additionally, if Palestine has never been a state, by what right or standard do you deem Israeli land to be "Palestinian"?
Reread what I wrote, I'm just using the term that has historically referred to the region that encompasses Israel and the occupied territories even by Zionists. I'm not saying Israeli land is Palestinian land though they do have something of a claim to it given the fact they lived there continuously for generations until being ethnically cleansed by Zionists.
And if there has never been a Palestinian state, why do so-called Palestinians want one now?
Because they were promised one and the interwar period set up the standard of national self determination. That standard didn't exist when most of the world lived under premodern empires like the Ottoman state but that doesn't mean that the nations that came to claim that right didn't exist.
And if Palestinians really are Jewish, Christian, and Muslim, why couldn't Israel be considered the Palestinian state? Which Jews are Palestinian and which aren't?
Again reread what I wrote because I have been clear. If they are Jews that have familial roots in historic Palestine predating Zionist immigration then they are Palestinians. If they are Jews whose descendants came from Russia or Poland, as many Zionists did, then they are not Palestinian but rather Ashkenazim Jews
Again, please provide specifics. Are you suggesting that Jerusalem is and always was a part of "Palestine", and not Israel?
Not always since it was a part of the ancient Kingdom of Israel but Israel hasn't existed for thousands of years and for some time before the rise of the Zionists Jerusalem was seen as part of a region known as Palestine.
Again, what is/was Palestine? What were its borders? You have yet to explain what Palestine was, or what made it Palestine.
I did explain it though, you;re just ignoring my explanation
At the minimum the term referred to the administrative unit centered in Jerusalem but was also used as a general term for the holy land which encompassed an area around that administrative unit as well.
Historic Palestine is somewhat nebulous but in the 19th century referred to the area from the Eastern Mediterranean shore to the Jordan River and north of Rafah to the Litani River(now in modern Lebanon).
You said he revolted and failed. You can't be the head of a state that never existed.
He was the head of a de facto state, do you know what de facto means? Means it existed in reality but not nominally on a map. His attempt at a de jure state, one recognized internationally and nominally independent of the Ottomans, failed but he nonetheless ruled autonomously for decades under nominal Ottoman rule.
So there has never been a head of state, correct?
There was Yasser Arafat who headed the PLO, the internationally recognized representative of the Palestinian people. But no, he wasn't a head of state in the sense that the term is usually used. But I think you are far too hung up on that, as I said a state requires a head of state but not a nation such as the Palestinian nation.
There is no evidence of a historic Palestine. Its history isn't nebulous. It's non-existent.
Its there if you are willing to step outside the rigid paradigm you view history within. Nations and regions exist even when there isn't a state there plastered with their name.
Historical Israel predates the 19th century by millennia.
Sure but it didn't exist continuously and hadn't existed for thousands of years. The Jews left Palestine and settled elsewhere. The modern state of Israel has only the most faintest of connections with the ancient Kingdom of Israel. There was also an Babylonian state as well in ancient times but no one recognizes the legitimacy of a Babylonian state in the 21st century just because of that.
What do you mean by "zionist"?
People who believe in Jewish nationalism and the right of the Jews to a homeland in historic Palestine.
No. Let's use your definition. The nation of Israel.
That's also recent and predated by the notion of Palestine.
 
We must continue full support for Israel and give them anything they need
 
Chomsky is so right on this one.

While MSM distracts Americans with Russiagate, a bill to give Israel a massive aid package of $38 billion is before Congress.

Senate about to vote on bill to give $38 billion to Israel, largest aid package in US history, violating US law. This is Corporate Welfare for US Arms Companies and would be MUCH better spent at home rather than subsidizing Israel


This would be largest military aid package in American history. The bill also mandates that NASA work with Israel’s space agency, despite charges of Israeli espionage.


via israelpalestinenews:



Although the media isn’t telling Americans, a bill to give Israel a massive aid package is before Congress. The Senate, where it has 72 sponsors, is expected to vote on it this week. The bill also mandates that NASA work with Israel’s space agency, despite charges of Israeli espionage.

Jewish Insider reports that the U.S. Senate is expected to vote this week on a $38 billion aid package to Israel. This would be largest military aid package in American history (text and sponsors below).


The money, which would be given to Israel over the next 10 years, is the equivalent of $23,000 for each Jewish Israeli family of four....
http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/...aid-package-of-38-billion-is-before-congress/

Does anyone doubt where the real power lies? Or who is pulling whose strings?

The article goes on to mention that every dollar given to Israel is still illegal under US law. I have posted on this prior.

Doubters, google this:
Symington and Glenn Amendments to the 1961 Foreign Assistance Act and the Leahy Law.

And note all "our" representatives willing to break US law to keep the zionist war machine moving forward. It's disgusting.
 
Indeed.


This "one-state solution" is also what our traditional rabbis have wanted as well.

israel342747654_90e4c943fd.jpg

A couple months ago I saw the movie "The Chosen". It was about Jews in Brooklyn after WW2. When the state of Israel was brought up the rabbi flipped out. Good movie.
 
Khazar, Zionists are the real nazis, sure, I need a history book.
What is more fascist or nazi-like than God given land for the chosen race?

Jews were "europeans" because they lived in Europe but their ancestors came from the middle east, that's why they are jews and look like jews and not like europeans and were forced to live in ghettos and were then expelled.
Rubbish, there was a mass conversion in the Caucuses. None of these people or any of their family ever stepped foot in the holy land. The King declared them Jewish, they started reading the Talmud and the rest is history.

Again, read a history book. Pro tip: the bible is not a history book.
 
So... Will the Dems/MSM go after the Israelis?
 
Back
Top