Civil Forfeiture And You

[Cubo de Sangre]

How is this within the bounds of the Fourth Amendment?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/03/us/philadelphia-drug-bust-house-seizure/index.html

The nightmare began when police showed up at the house and arrested their 22-year-old son, Yianni, on drug charges -- $40 worth of heroin. Authorities say he was selling drugs out of the home. The Sourvelises say they had no knowledge of any involvement their son might have had with drugs.

A month-and-a-half later police came back -- this time to seize their house, forcing the Sourvelises and their children out on the street that day. Authorities came with the electric company in tow to turn off the power and even began locking the doors with screws, the Sourvelises say. Authorities won't comment on the exact circumstances because of pending litigation regarding the case.

Police and prosecutors came armed with a lawsuit against the house itself. It was being forfeited and transferred to the custody of the Philadelphia District Attorney. Authorities said the house was tied to illegal drugs and therefore subject to civil forfeiture.

In some states, like Pennsylvania, the burden is on the property owner to prove their innocence. The Sourvelises say they had to go to a courtroom and fight to get their home back where, instead of facing a judge, they faced a prosecutor from the DA's office.

There was no courtroom or judge, Christos Sourvelis says. "There's just one guy telling us to sign these papers. That's it."

After eight days of sleeping on a family member's couch, the Sourvelises were let back into their house, but only on the guarantee they would ban their son from the house -- a heartbreaking decision, they say. (Their son pleaded no contest to the drug charges.)

Still fighting the city to resolve their case and stay in their home permanently, Markella Sourovelis says: "To me I'm home, but I feel violated at this point. I'm doing things in my house, but I worry is it always going to be my house? Are they going to take it one day like that?"

And this little snippet was interesting.

Philadelphia officials seized more than 1,000 houses, about 3,300 vehicles and $44 million in cash, totaling $64 million in civil forfeitures over a 10-year period, according to the lawsuit.

 

[oldshadow]

There should have to be a open court case with legal defence before they can take anything.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Glad to see law enforcement finally starting to play hardball in the war on drugs. With strength and resolve we can win. "Clean By 2019" needs to be this nation's clarion cry. We can do it!

 

[Bob Charlie]

I drove through Philly last month the downtown is surrounded by ten miles of the scuzziest tenements I've ever seen it looked like the 5 points from gangs of new york.

That kid is a piece of garbage for putting his parents in this position.

 

[Jimmy Tuna**]

Kangaroo courts enforcing guilt by association

Sucks

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

That kid is a piece of garbage for putting his parents in this position.

It's the government that has created the situation.

 

[Bob Charlie]

Yianni is a piece of trash human being selling heroine to someone is equivalent to murdering them.

 

[OldGoat]

It shouldn't be legal. But hey, big government is modern god. There is no fighting it.

 

[new_mexico1]

Good ol' War on Drugs.

 

[OldGoat]

I drove through Philly last month the downtown is surrounded by ten miles of the scuzziest tenements I've ever seen it looked like the 5 points from gangs of new york.

That kid is a piece of garbage for putting his parents in this position.

Should need a trial. And even then stealing a house, cash, cars, and boats should still not be allowed. Corrupt police and governments.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Yianni is a piece of trash human being selling heroine to someone is equivalent to murdering them.

Even if that's true, so?

It shouldn't be legal.

I don't understand how it's Constitutional.

 

[OldGoat]

Even if that's true, so?



I don't understand how it's Constitutional.

Since when in the modern era has the Constitution stopped those in power?

The ends justify the means and stupid language like

War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on XXXXXX rallies the stupid.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Since when in the modern era has the Constitution stopped those in power?

The ends justify the means and stupid language like

War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on XXXXXX rallies the stupid.

I get you. But SCOTUS rules on shit all the time. Sometimes they even strike down illegal laws. How does this crap stand?

 

[OldGoat]

I get you. But SCOTUS rules on shit all the time. Sometimes they even strike down illegal laws. How does this crap stand?

It's one of the largest puzzles of the day if you ask me. It's clear that these laws are ripe to be abused. But language can mean anything the corrupt politicians want it to mean.

 

[Tekk]

It's one of the largest puzzles of the day if you ask me. It's clear that these laws are ripe to be abused. But language can mean anything the corrupt politicians want it to mean.

Somebody post the video of the leos from different counties fist fighting over who is going to seize the alleged drug money.

 

[Protectandserve]

I don't work with our Narcs very often but my understanding of how it is applied at our department is you have to prove that the item/property you want to seize was bought with drug money. Simply using a house to sell doesn't fly for seizure.

 

[HIMBOB]

Should need a trial. And even then stealing a house, cash, cars, and boats should still not be allowed. Corrupt police and governments.

1. Would you still disagree if it can be PROVEN that these were bought with the proceeds of crime?

2. Would you still disagree if it can't be DISPROVEN that these were bought with the proceeds of crime? (onus on owner to show how they afforded/acquired such things).

 

[OldGoat]

1. Would you still disagree if it can be PROVEN that these were bought with the proceeds of crime?

2. Would you still disagree if it can't be DISPROVEN that these were bought with the proceeds of crime? (onus on owner to show how they afforded/acquired such things).

Yes and absolutely.

The burden should always be on the state to prove guilt. Furthermore, penalties ought to be consistent and proportional to the crime. Selling a ounce of pot shouldn't result in losing a vehicle. That's crazy. And provides a huge incentive for institutional corruption.

 

[m52nickerson]

I get you. But SCOTUS rules on shit all the time. Sometimes they even strike down illegal laws. How does this crap stand?

The SCOTUS has already ruled on this issue and found that the government may seize the property and assests of a defendent until after a trial.

 

[berimBOWLoh]

Yianni is a piece of trash human being selling heroine to someone is equivalent to murdering them.

lol, ppl still believe this shit in 2014??

guess what doctor do good, if somebody wants heroin somebody is gonna sell it to them. Saying its = murdering them is absurd. its def not something to be proud of but supply and demand is as old as civilization itself.