Coaches that sucks at holding mitts/pads

pads gives you a chance to drill into your body a natural reaction you want.

example, on the mitts drill like crazy countering the jab with your own jab......come sparring time, youll most likely be able to pull it off from doing it on the mitts so much. Where as if you never practiced it on the mitts, and during sparring coach is just yelling at you to counter the jab with your own, wont quite be the same.

the same thing could be worked on partner drills rather than pads.

if we can have only 1 thing, it must be sparring, followed by partner drills, followed by pads, followed by bag, followed by shadow boxing, conditioning needs to be in the mix somehwere too.

just a example
 
Just my opinion, pads are more important and useful in Muay Thai as opposed to boxing. Let's get that out of the way

Most guys in boxing that are proponents of mitt/pads for training say things like "well you're not supposed to just stand there, lol, you move around with the pads to simulate.. etc etc" but if you look at them training pads, they are, EXACTLY just standing around there. If you're going to "move around" and "simulate reality" with pads, it's a lot easier, more accurate, and closer to the real thing to do that using drills with actual responsive bodies, where everyone's head is where their head is and moves like a head, spine arms, etc. All the movements are actually like they would be, acting and reacting at the exact timing as is realistic -- instead of trying to "simulate" ALL of a person's body and all of their moments by using 2 pads/mitts - that's honestly impossible and if you somehow were that immortally good, it would still only be AS good as an actual body doing those things (but it's not because no one is). The footwork and movement is NEVER even 20% of what an actual fighter would be doing.

It's maybe okay for beginners but most of the reason and insistence for pads is for the cameras to promote fights. Basically wooden board-breaking demos for karate but mitts/pads for boxing "demos" to keep the casuals happy and pump up the hype for a fight. Nothing wrong with that. And if someone wants to use pads or insists on it, I don't have any problem with that. I just have noticed that people who use pads as their main training method tend to do inversely well when it actually comes time to go against someone else, it's odd because the guy who looks worse on pads usually bullies the guy who looks good or great on pads in the gym. It's happened too many times to ignore, it's basically a law now.

In Muay Thai, "pads" is just padded whole-body sparring and drills, basically, so it works just fine that way. I wouldn't change anything in that respect.
 
Just my opinion, pads are more important and useful in Muay Thai as opposed to boxing. Let's get that out of the way

Most guys in boxing that are proponents of mitt/pads for training say things like "well you're not supposed to just stand there, lol, you move around with the pads to simulate.. etc etc" but if you look at them training pads, they are, EXACTLY just standing around there. If you're going to "move around" and "simulate reality" with pads, it's a lot easier, more accurate, and closer to the real thing to do that using drills with actual responsive bodies, where everyone's head is where their head is and moves like a head, spine arms, etc. All the movements are actually like they would be, acting and reacting at the exact timing as is realistic -- instead of trying to "simulate" ALL of a person's body and all of their moments by using 2 pads/mitts - that's honestly impossible and if you somehow were that immortally good, it would still only be AS good as an actual body doing those things (but it's not because no one is). The footwork and movement is NEVER even 20% of what an actual fighter would be doing.

It's maybe okay for beginners but most of the reason and insistence for pads is for the cameras to promote fights. Basically wooden board-breaking demos for karate but mitts/pads for boxing "demos" to keep the casuals happy and pump up the hype for a fight. Nothing wrong with that. And if someone wants to use pads or insists on it, I don't have any problem with that. I just have noticed that people who use pads as their main training method tend to do inversely well when it actually comes time to go against someone else, it's odd because the guy who looks worse on pads usually bullies the guy who looks good or great on pads in the gym. It's happened too many times to ignore, it's basically a law now.

In Muay Thai, "pads" is just padded whole-body sparring and drills, basically, so it works just fine that way. I wouldn't change anything in that respect.

I have to disagree here. I had my kid running rings around sparring partners through a combination of padwork and footwork drills. I had him practice this movement, to make it simple for him i call it his 'spin' move (he's 9):

1.throw a 1-2-1 combination
2. stepping to the outside of the opponents lead foot
3. pivoting around the opponents left side (orthodox)
4. then landing punches on the head from the side and finally backing off.

This worked so well, especially against inexperienced kids that he was pivoting so fast he was hitting them in the backs of the heads...I had to stop him doing it against those kids since obviously hitting back of head is a no-no! That specific technique was only possible through drilling it 100s of times with pads and footwork drills. With the pads I could hit him on the sides of the head if he wasnt maintaining distance and form, and also allowed him to practise the move hundred of times without me getting punched in the head!
 
man id say around 70% of coaches u find at gyms hold pads wrong. alot of coaches try to make u look like floyd and only give u 6 inches of punch reach before meeting your punch with the pads in which u never learn proper distance ect mits are suppose to be for punch accuracy to me at least fast combos and getting off moving and flowing thats the point. you only need a slight tap forward to make sure u dont hurt yourself it shard t find someone who has a good medium with it at most mma gyms at least
 
This reminds me, is it ever appropriate for the mitt holder to move the pads toward the striker in middle of each strike? Basically meeting them halfway every time. Because there’s this duo at my local 24 Hour Fitness that trains like this pretty much exclusively..
 
I have to disagree here. I had my kid running rings around sparring partners through a combination of padwork and footwork drills. I had him practice this movement, to make it simple for him i call it his 'spin' move (he's 9):

1.throw a 1-2-1 combination
2. stepping to the outside of the opponents lead foot
3. pivoting around the opponents left side (orthodox)
4. then landing punches on the head from the side and finally backing off.

This worked so well, especially against inexperienced kids that he was pivoting so fast he was hitting them in the backs of the heads...I had to stop him doing it against those kids since obviously hitting back of head is a no-no! That specific technique was only possible through drilling it 100s of times with pads and footwork drills. With the pads I could hit him on the sides of the head if he wasnt maintaining distance and form, and also allowed him to practise the move hundred of times without me getting punched in the head!

I'm going to agree with you that it can be used for some things, especially getting beginners started and for exercise.

Your specific use of pads worked because you knew the limits of them and you adapted their use in a drill that you knew would work. Bravo!
 
This reminds me, is it ever appropriate for the mitt holder to move the pads toward the striker in middle of each strike? Basically meeting them halfway every time. Because there’s this duo at my local 24 Hour Fitness that trains like this pretty much exclusively..

That's actually the correct way to do it, believe it or not. [EDIT- not correct if exaggerated]

I think it can give the trainee a false sense of distance (and false confidence) if they're not already good in that area.
 
I'm going to agree with you that it can be used for some things, especially getting beginners started and for exercise.

Your specific use of pads worked because you knew the limits of them and you adapted their use in a drill that you knew would work. Bravo!

My biggest peeve with padwork is as you mentioned elsewhere gives false sense of distance. My boy looked almost annoyed that I wouldnt meet his fists halfway like boxing gym coaches in the area. He must use his brain to calculate distance and feel that sense of exposure when you throw a real punch at someone (that someone WILL be throwing a punch at you when youre throwing yours most of the time.

For most drills I will give resistance or come in 1 inch- not 50% of the journey to meet his mitts
 
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Just my opinion, pads are more important and useful in Muay Thai as opposed to boxing. Let's get that out of the way

Most guys in boxing that are proponents of mitt/pads for training say things like "well you're not supposed to just stand there, lol, you move around with the pads to simulate.. etc etc" but if you look at them training pads, they are, EXACTLY just standing around there. If you're going to "move around" and "simulate reality" with pads, it's a lot easier, more accurate, and closer to the real thing to do that using drills with actual responsive bodies, where everyone's head is where their head is and moves like a head, spine arms, etc. All the movements are actually like they would be, acting and reacting at the exact timing as is realistic -- instead of trying to "simulate" ALL of a person's body and all of their moments by using 2 pads/mitts - that's honestly impossible and if you somehow were that immortally good, it would still only be AS good as an actual body doing those things (but it's not because no one is). The footwork and movement is NEVER even 20% of what an actual fighter would be doing.

It's maybe okay for beginners but most of the reason and insistence for pads is for the cameras to promote fights. Basically wooden board-breaking demos for karate but mitts/pads for boxing "demos" to keep the casuals happy and pump up the hype for a fight. Nothing wrong with that. And if someone wants to use pads or insists on it, I don't have any problem with that. I just have noticed that people who use pads as their main training method tend to do inversely well when it actually comes time to go against someone else, it's odd because the guy who looks worse on pads usually bullies the guy who looks good or great on pads in the gym. It's happened too many times to ignore, it's basically a law now.

In Muay Thai, "pads" is just padded whole-body sparring and drills, basically, so it works just fine that way. I wouldn't change anything in that respect.

i agree with everything you have said.

mitts when your just standing there, doing those mayweather extended combinations, arent so you can throw some 20 hit combo in a fight exactly the way you practiced 20 punches on the mitts. What it does work is your natural reaction, it gets quite difficult to keep up and remember what to do when you get going fast. Im sure your already aware of all this just pointing it out. I know that alot of mittwork definitely improved my boxing recently.

Regarding footwork etc. I agree with you on the drills as basically anything that can be done on pads, can be done on drills, or maybe I should say anything that can be done on drills can be done on pads. but in regards to the footwork it definitely can be worked on the pads. I trained with Gil Martinez once when i went to vegas. He had a messed up foot at the time and said we didnt move as much as he usually does, but it was a shitload of movement and footwork to me. something I am not used to as I am not a boxer. But you can see he does good work on movement with the mitts. check these clips out






like you said pads are more important in MT and I am still on board with drills over pads. But its better to have pads and drills, rather than one or the other IMO.
 
I like how Virgil Hunter works pads with Andre Ward. It looks like he is doing very little for Ward, but in actual fact he is ensuring he is technically making him work for everything.

 
i agree with everything you have said.

mitts when your just standing there, doing those mayweather extended combinations, arent so you can throw some 20 hit combo in a fight exactly the way you practiced 20 punches on the mitts. What it does work is your natural reaction, it gets quite difficult to keep up and remember what to do when you get going fast. Im sure your already aware of all this just pointing it out. I know that alot of mittwork definitely improved my boxing recently.

Regarding footwork etc. I agree with you on the drills as basically anything that can be done on pads, can be done on drills, or maybe I should say anything that can be done on drills can be done on pads. but in regards to the footwork it definitely can be worked on the pads. I trained with Gil Martinez once when i went to vegas. He had a messed up foot at the time and said we didnt move as much as he usually does, but it was a shitload of movement and footwork to me. something I am not used to as I am not a boxer. But you can see he does good work on movement with the mitts. check these clips out






like you said pads are more important in MT and I am still on board with drills over pads. But its better to have pads and drills, rather than one or the other IMO.


Good points. Mitts themselves aren't wrong, they're just over-used and completely misused akin to the application of CGI for movies since the early 2000's. If you incorporate them into drills (with someone that knows what they're doing) then there's no problem

It's people that naively think accumulating pitter-pattering hours will make you a monster. It makes you a juicy mark in most cases, from everything I've seen
 
Good points. Mitts themselves aren't wrong, they're just over-used and completely misused akin to the application of CGI for movies since the early 2000's. If you incorporate them into drills (with someone that knows what they're doing) then there's no problem

It's people that naively think accumulating pitter-pattering hours will make you a monster. It makes you a juicy mark in most cases, from everything I've seen

made a post about that exact thing a while back




AdvancedMuayThaiTechniques
Published by Jonas Staggs ·

September 11 ·
training like this is pure nonsense, I assure you, you can get just as good as a workout, if not better, being taught properly and just working the 1-2 correctly and building a solid foundation rather than doing something like this. Unfortunately in this instant society, people dont want to learn properly, and want to rush straight to "spinning crane kick" and doing some sort of ridiculous padwork, before they can even jab correctly. Heres your bells and whistles smoke and mirrors padwork, learn nothing, no self defense, develop bad habits padwork. $60 bucks a session!

I refuse to do this, if you train with me, it might be boring, it might be slow, you might not look fancy, but it will be correct, and you will get just as good a workout as well as actual useful self defense.



she cant throw a single proper punch. Maybe you should teach her how to jab before all this BS.

more bullshit, maybe coach should teach her how to kick before jumping scissor knee. however coach most likely doesnt know how to kick himself



 
I’m suspect of any coach who sucks at pads because it’s not difficult to be halfway decent at it.











In fact, for the low low price of 350.00 I’ll come to your gym and teach you my secret proprietary system of “button on” mitt work used to train professional fighters, athletes, and fitness enthusiasts all over the greater Portland metro area
 
DoctorTaco said:
In fact, for the low low price of 350.00 I’ll come to your gym and teach you my secret proprietary system of “button on” mitt work used to train professional fighters, athletes, and fitness enthusiasts all over the greater Portland metro area

 
This seems like a good place to leave this...I work with this Australian female fighter whenever she's in town. I myself use mitts specifically to convey certain movements or principals a fighter might not otherwise be undertsanding from the partner drills we use. This girl is very good, she was a World level Amateur, so this more conveys how it looks when I don't need to correct just basic form:

 
This seems like a good place to leave this...I work with this Australian female fighter whenever she's in town. I myself use mitts specifically to convey certain movements or principals a fighter might not otherwise be undertsanding from the partner drills we use. This girl is very good, she was a World level Amateur, so this more conveys how it looks when I don't need to correct just basic form:



sinister and the rest of the guys, what do you think of this "scoop" the cross counter? I was taught it a very long time ago, i used it effectively in sparring, from scoop to cross, or even scoop to hook with the same hand. but I eventually stopped using it and kinda forgot all about. I just came across this video and it reminded me of it. You think its good or bullshit?

 
made a post about that exact thing a while back




AdvancedMuayThaiTechniques
Published by Jonas Staggs ·

September 11 ·
training like this is pure nonsense, I assure you, you can get just as good as a workout, if not better, being taught properly and just working the 1-2 correctly and building a solid foundation rather than doing something like this. Unfortunately in this instant society, people dont want to learn properly, and want to rush straight to "spinning crane kick" and doing some sort of ridiculous padwork, before they can even jab correctly. Heres your bells and whistles smoke and mirrors padwork, learn nothing, no self defense, develop bad habits padwork. $60 bucks a session!

I refuse to do this, if you train with me, it might be boring, it might be slow, you might not look fancy, but it will be correct, and you will get just as good a workout as well as actual useful self defense.



she cant throw a single proper punch. Maybe you should teach her how to jab before all this BS.

more bullshit, maybe coach should teach her how to kick before jumping scissor knee. however coach most likely doesnt know how to kick himself




Hahahahahahahhaa. Now those are example of wannabe coaches that sucks at holding pads and obviously never trained any real fighters before. Thanks for the great laughing material.
 
sinister and the rest of the guys, what do you think of this "scoop" the cross counter? I was taught it a very long time ago, i used it effectively in sparring, from scoop to cross, or even scoop to hook with the same hand. but I eventually stopped using it and kinda forgot all about. I just came across this video and it reminded me of it. You think its good or bullshit?



To me it looks like it wouldn't scoop at all if the guy were in range (you'd get hit) like he would be if he's any threat when he throws it and it also ties up the defender's arm so opens him up while scooping (why?).

It's better to duck or avoid the right, counter with your arm during that time than allocate it (and commit not only effort, intention and time) just to "scoop." The other guy could easily counter with a quick left to your face while you are busy "scooping" his right with no advantage.

It's basically a waaay over-committed parry that takes too long, goes out too far and ties you up and eats up your opportunity to counter with that time and effort.

Also he can limp-arm and come right back and smack you with that same arm you're trying to "scoop". I will link a Bernard Hopkins vid on the subject if I can find it (and he was only talking about push-parrying jabs down, this is much worse)
 
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sinister and the rest of the guys, what do you think of this "scoop" the cross counter? I was taught it a very long time ago, i used it effectively in sparring, from scoop to cross, or even scoop to hook with the same hand. but I eventually stopped using it and kinda forgot all about. I just came across this video and it reminded me of it. You think its good or bullshit?



That would work with slow crappy crosses. But a tight straight right where the opponent steps in, and you're in trouble. This is the kind of thing you can do to novices if you're advanced, or noobs if you're a novice. But I would not recommend against high level opposition
 
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