Coleman or lesnar prime

Coleman was 245 jacked in pride

Size won't matter both not technical masters but Coleman would win as he is better wrestler by far Olympic level
Before he even went to PRIDE I think he was even bigger in the UFC, like in that picture. He may have have been 250 to 260 at that point. I am not sure. I would love to see what Mark weighed in the early UFC's.

I agree that Coleman is a better wrestler., even if Brock is 30 pounds heavier. He is also 100x more durable than Brock. Coleman does not give up easy. I would totally bet on Coleman
 
Before he even went to PRIDE I think he was even bigger in the UFC, like in that picture. He may have have been 250 to 260 at that point. I am not sure. I agree that Coleman is a better wrestler. He is also 100x more durable than Brock. Coleman does not give up easy. I would totally bet on Coleman
Yeah Coleman is durable he was a beast

Coleman thrashed mark Kerr x3 in wrestling he was an animal

Mark in 96 97 was huge not sure if bigger in pride but he was 245 vs fedor
 
people say brock folds when it gets tough but go watch what Carwin and Cain have done to other guys. Brock actually took more punishment than most guys could take.

He has also fought better strikers than Coleman. If he can take down Carwin and Cain i think he can get Coleman to the cage and take him down and once on top smash him. Brock is freakishly fast for his size.

It would be who was better in shape at time
Striking wouldn't matter
Old fashioned grappling would be good to watch

Was supposed to fight in 08 brock smashes him then

Prime mark different
 
Fuck both those J-browns man, theres OLNY 1, BROTHER!

 
Last edited:
I don't understand how people are acting like Coleman was a mediocre fighter, the guy was one of the greats. He fought in the days when you would have to fight multiple opponents in one night, you did not know who your opponent was therefore he did not have a training camp focusing for a specific opponent. There were few rules, you could kick and knee a down man, you could soccer kick someone's head off. Hell, it wasn't even called MMA back then it was called NHB. On the other hand, with all due respects to Lesnar, who I happen to think was an excellent wrestler and a genetic freak, people seem to think he was one of the all time greats. With an exception to Randy Couture, all of the fights Lesnar won were against gate keepers.

Honestly, I think if Lesnar started from the bottom and worked himself up gradually, he could have been an all time great, but his MMA career was rushed, and he never reached his potential due to his popular name in the WWE.
 
With an exception to Randy Couture, all of the fights Lesnar won were against gate keepers.

In 8 fights, Lesnar beat 3 UFC champs and the K1 champ. Outside of Rua slipping and breaking his arm, Colemans biggest win was Dan Severn. Let that sink in a little bit. I love Coleman, but UFC 10 and UFC 200 were way different beasts in terms of skilled fighters.
 
In 8 fights, Lesnar beat 3 UFC champs and the K1 champ. Outside of Rua slipping and breaking his arm, Colemans biggest win was Dan Severn. Let that sink in a little bit. I love Coleman, but UFC 10 and UFC 200 were way different beasts in terms of skilled fighters.

Dan Severn, Don Frye (twice), Alan Goes, Maurico Rua, Igor Vovchanchyn, Kazyuki Fujita. These were nobodies?
 
I don't understand how people are acting like Coleman was a mediocre fighter, the guy was one of the greats. He fought in the days when you would have to fight multiple opponents in one night, you did not know who your opponent was therefore he did not have a training camp focusing for a specific opponent. There were few rules, you could kick and knee a down man, you could soccer kick someone's head off. Hell, it wasn't even called MMA back then it was called NHB. On the other hand, with all due respects to Lesnar, who I happen to think was an excellent wrestler and a genetic freak, people seem to think he was one of the all time greats. With an exception to Randy Couture, all of the fights Lesnar won were against gate keepers.

Honestly, I think if Lesnar started from the bottom and worked himself up gradually, he could have been an all time great, but his MMA career was rushed, and he never reached his potential due to his popular name in the WWE.

He fought when the sport was weak and had a mediocre record
 
Dan Severn, Don Frye (twice), Alan Goes, Maurico Rua, Igor Vovchanchyn, Kazyuki Fujita. These were nobodies?

Exactly.

And Rua wouldn’t have “Slipped” and broke his elbow if Coleman didn’t execute such a violent takedown.
 
Last edited:
lesnar.

while neither are great at striking, and particularly on the receiving end, lesnar has the ability and reach to throw a punch that would knock coleman out or down. i dont think i could confidently say the same for coleman.
 
He fought when the sport was weak and had a mediocre record

For a guy like you, who has a wealth of knowledge and is a student in the sport of wrestling, you should know that Coleman was a phenomenal wrestler and an athletic specimen in his prime. Coleman's record is similar to Randy Couture's who fought around the same time Coleman did. I don't think anyone would consider Randy a mediocre fighter. Most of Coleman's losses were later in his career when he shouldn't have been fighting, he had really bad hips, but he needed the money. Anyway 5-3 isn't exactly a stellar record either.
 
For a guy like you, who has a wealth of knowledge and is a student in the sport of wrestling, you should know that Coleman was a phenomenal wrestler and an athletic specimen in his prime. Coleman's record is similar to Randy Couture's who fought around the same time Coleman did. I don't think anyone would consider Randy a mediocre fighter. Most of Coleman's losses were later in his career when he shouldn't have been fighting, he had really bad hips, but he needed the money. Anyway 5-3 isn't exactly a stellar record either.

Coleman doesn't have Randy's high profile wins to bolster the mediocre record.

Randy and Lesnar both have better wins
 
Coleman doesn't have Randy's high profile wins to bolster the mediocre record.

Randy and Lesnar both have better wins

I actually have a lot of respect for your posts and your knowledge of wrestling. But I have to disagree with you here. Maybe there is a generational gap between you and I, but during the 90’s into the early 2000’s Severn, Frye, Vovchanchyn, and Rua were major players in NHB. All four guys were high level, higher than Carwin and Mir. Although I do acknowledge that both were UFC Champions for brief periods of time.
 
I actually have a lot of respect for your posts and your knowledge of wrestling. But I have to disagree with you here. Maybe there is a generational gap between you and I, but during the 90’s into the early 2000’s Severn, Frye, Vovchanchyn, and Rua were major players in NHB. All four guys were high level, higher than Carwin and Mir. Although I do acknowledge that both were UFC Champions for brief periods of time.

Rua was a small 205er and he fell and broke his elbow.

Igor had no takedown defense at all, he was one dimensional.

The other two had great personalities but weren't as good a Carwin and Mir. And Lesnar also beat Couture.
 
Rua was a small 205er and he fell and broke his elbow.

Igor had no takedown defense at all, he was one dimensional.

The other two had great personalities but weren't as good a Carwin and Mir. And Lesnar also beat Couture.

1. First of all Rua didn't "fall" he was taken down, and didn't know how to land.

2. As far as Igor Vovchanchyn being a one dimensional fighter with no defense, he still beat Mark Kerr (twice), Kazushi Sakaraba, Gilbert Yvel, and a young Valentin Overeem . The guy had 18 wins in Pride.

3.Severn had over 100 wins, and was a pioneer for the sport. He too was a fantastic Wrestler, who got royally screwed in the 1984 trials against Lou Banach, and most likely would have won the 84 Olympics.

4. Don Frye was a UFC Champion, and mentally was probably the toughest guy ever to step into the cage.

5. With and exception to Frank Mir, the majority of Carwin's wins were over tomato cans.
 
1. First of all Rua didn't "fall" he was taken down, and didn't know how to land.

2. As far as Igor Vovchanchyn being a one dimensional fighter with no defense, he still beat Mark Kerr (twice), Kazushi Sakaraba, Gilbert Yvel, and a young Valentin Overeem (the man who beat Brock). The guy had 18 wins in Pride.

3.Severn had over 100 wins, and was a pioneer for the sport. He too was a fantastic Wrestler, who got royally screwed in the 1984 trials against Lou Banach, and most likely would have won the 84 Olympics.

4. Don Frye was a UFC Champion, and mentally was probably the toughest guy ever to step into the cage.

5. With and exception to Frank Mir, the majority of Carwin's wins were over tomato cans.

1. You can try and paint the Rua fall anyway you want but anybody saw the fight knows it was a fluke.

2. Saku was 185lber at best fighting a hwt.... Kerr is probably the most overrated fighter in history who had a pill problem. Gilbert was handmade to get beat by Igor and Valentin didn't fight Brock that was Alister (Valentine did have a win against Randy). If it also lost to Tre Teligman after the Kerr fight and Heath Herring.

3. And he still wasn't as good as Mir, Carson, Herring and Randy. Those 4 wins are better than anyone Coleman beat.

4. Ok.... but skillwize he wasn't that great.

5. Ok.
 
1. You can try and paint the Rua fall anyway you want but anybody saw the fight knows it was a fluke.

2. Saku was 185lber at best fighting a hwt.... Kerr is probably the most overrated fighter in history who had a pill problem. Gilbert was handmade to get beat by Igor and Valentin didn't fight Brock that was Alister (Valentine did have a win against Randy). If it also lost to Tre Teligman after the Kerr fight and Heath Herring.

3. And he still wasn't as good as Mir, Carson, Herring and Randy. Those 4 wins are better than anyone Coleman beat.

4. Ok.... but skillwize he wasn't that great.

5. Ok.

First of all I think all of your points are good, and I really do think you are a knowledgeable guy. I hope there are no hard feelings between the two of us, it is just a matter of different opinions.

1. I think many would agree with me that the Rua fight was a legitimate win. Coleman had the skill to get the take down that made Rua fall and extend his arm. It is no different than when Bisbing knocked out Rockhold. Rockhold was beating Bisbing, but Bisbing had the skill to land the punch which knocked Rockhold out, therefore like the Coleman/ Rua fight I do not consider Bisbing's win to be a fluke.

2. True Saku was 185 lbs, but at the time there were no weight classes, and Vovchanchyn was not a big man either, he was only about 205. You are correct about Valentin, I screwed up. I still disagree with you about Igor being a can, prior to his MMA career he was a Champion Kickboxer in Europe, so you can't really say his defense was that bad.

3. I do agree that the skill level when Severn was fighting was not as advanced as it is now, but Severn faced all comers and never ducked anyone. The trouble with MMA in this day and age, is there is one major organization, and other minor ones, unfortunately due to politics, a really good fighter in another organization will never be able to face really good fighters that are signed to the UFC. For example Askren in my opinion is one of the greatest Welterweights, but we will never know how good he really was because he was signed to a different organization. Back in the 90's and early 2000's (pre Dana White), everybody fought everybody. This also leads in to your point about Kerr, I do agree with you that his level of competition was not that great, but at the time he fought and beat most of the people that were put in front of him (during his prime).

4. Again, you are probably right, but you have to take into account, that when Frye was fighting it was the stone ages for MMA, if he had the training methods and the competition that you have today I think he would be very skilled.

*Edited You are right Vovchanchyn was 235, much bigger than Saku, however I still think Vovchanchyn was one of the greats.
 
Throwing a punch with bad intentions and knocking the other fighter out is in no way the same thing as a guy hitting a td and the other guys arm getting broke because he landed in a stupid way. That is called a fluke. There is no way Coleman had any intentions of that happening. In all the tds Coleman had ever landed in his career, how many times has that happened? Out of all the times Shogun has been taken down in training or fights, how many times had that happened? Once. That's called a fluke. Shogun would have beaten the brakes off Coleman had that not happened. Everybody but you knows that.
 
He fought when the sport was weak and had a mediocre record
Compared to Lesnar's 5-3 record in a weak era itself?

In 8 fights, Lesnar beat 3 UFC champs and the K1 champ. Outside of Rua slipping and breaking his arm, Colemans biggest win was Dan Severn. Let that sink in a little bit. I love Coleman, but UFC 10 and UFC 200 were way different beasts in terms of skilled fighters.
Lesnar and Coleman were both extremely one dimensional wrestlers. 1997 Coleman and 2016 Brock really aren't too different.

I believe Coleman had better takedowns, better GNP, and was 100x tougher than Brock.

Brock had heavier hands on the feet and equally good top control but the man would shell up any time he was hit. His striking defense was horrible.

Brock would fold when he meets adversity. Coleman was so much tougher and could survive bad positions. Brock would turn and run and get lit up or fall to the ground and turtle up.

If old man Randy could stifle the majority of Brock's wrestling then you have to believe a prime Coleman would do the same.

You also have to believe this matchup would be a dogfight and the man more likely to give up first is Brock.

1. You can try and paint the Rua fall anyway you want but anybody saw the fight knows it was a fluke.

2. Saku was 185lber at best fighting a hwt.... Kerr is probably the most overrated fighter in history who had a pill problem. Gilbert was handmade to get beat by Igor and Valentin didn't fight Brock that was Alister (Valentine did have a win against Randy). If it also lost to Tre Teligman after the Kerr fight and Heath Herring.

3. And he still wasn't as good as Mir, Carson, Herring and Randy. Those 4 wins are better than anyone Coleman beat.

4. Ok.... but skillwize he wasn't that great.

5. Ok.

You can call Kerr overrated. I have no problem with that. But lets not even lie to ourselves that he was not an amazing wrestler and was fucking huge and roided out of his mind. That was a very impressive win for Igor. For a striker to overcome a massive undefeated high level wrestler at that time was epic.

FearfulHighlevelCrossbill.gif



sgsg8l.jpg
 
Coleman lost to Takada. I dont really see Lesnar losing to a 200lb fighter with a 2-6 record. Again, I love Coleman, one of my favorite US wrestler, but that one is tough to justify.
 
Back
Top