Columbus statue covered up in LA, Columbus Day removed and replaced by Indiginous Peoples Day

Should Columbus Day be removed and replaced with Indigenous Peoples Day?


  • Total voters
    153
To be fair to all races of any generation we should tear down all statues, monuments or public icons honoring any individual or action. We should also rename all current streets and buildings named after people. We should rename any holiday or festival that honors a person or group. Sanitize it ALL because someone somewhere is very likely offended by it regardless of what it is.

Fuck all this pussy footing about. Just wipe it all clean, generically name what remains. If they can't be happy or proud, you can't be happy or proud. If they can't honor a person, place or thing than you can't honor a person, place or thing.

I'm with you , its really the only logical conclusion to this shitstorm. " oh , I'm inherently privelaged and racist by virtue of existence because you say so? ....well now I guess ill deem you that as well" . It can only end in a maelstrom of literally everyone feeling slighted , put down , trod upon and offended. We'll all be so offended and on guard that it'll cease to have any meaning. The legitimate gripes and the ridiculous will no longer be distinguishable.

I'm not being sarcastic either. I don't think the loudest whiners are gonna be happy with how this has the potential to play out .

That said Columbus was a dick.
 
He never stepped one foot in America. Guy was a loser, and I don't celebrate losers.
He was looking for a different route to India and lucked out that he hit some islands in the Caribbean.
Hell one of his crew spotted the island first, but shit head Columbus claimed he did it.
If Italians want a holiday so bad, go back to fucking Italy.
By your logic mlk day and black history month has to go too since they are losers. Just saying. Personally I don't care about said holidays beside being off.
 
Columbus Day began as a way of to celebrate Catholic immigration to the US— basically, when it was established as a federal holiday in 1937 under FDR, it was a declaration that Irish and Italians had “made it” in mainstream US culture.
I'd rather celebrate Rocky Balboa day.
 
That's great, fuck Columbus. Speaking of which, HAPPY MOTHERFUCKING LEIF ERIKSON DAY!!!

leif-ericson-day-meme-41.jpg

I mean.... Niether did Columbus. And... You realize who the Vikings were right? And you understand why their settlement died out? Some people are so far removed from understanding historical context it blows my mind.
 
He was trying to find a new route to India and instead found a new landmass. You're talking about his intentions instead of what was achieved. His expedition was founded by the Spanish crown... so I guess you could credit that for his discovery too.

Of course. We can credit Columbus with nothing other than sheer dumb luck.

He didn't just stumble into something while looking for something else, he did it while going about it in the wrong way.

The popular legend of Columbus is mostly bullshit. Everyone who was anybody already knew the Earth was round. This had been known since Antiquity. Columbus' so called "innovation" wasn't that he thought the Earth was round, it was that his calculations showed that the Earth was small than everyone thought, small enough that a caravel or carrack could sail west and reach the East Indies.

But the problem was that his math was bullshit. And everyone knew it. That was the reason he was laughed out of every court in Europe. That was the reason why every adviser in the Castillian court told the Catholic Kings that Columbus' project was bullshit. The only reason he got the financing was because he managed to sweet talk Isabel and Fernando into ignoring the advise of every expert and scholar in two kingdoms.

The magnitude of the idiocy of Columbus' project cannot be overstated. If the Americas hadn't happened to be where they were, he would've ran out of food and water before even making it a third of the way through.

For fuck's sake even the pop history of the ship he used is wrong. It wasn't 3 caravels, it was 2 caravels and a carrack.

ETA: And by the way, I am Italian on my father's side. The family immigrated from Sicily when my Dad was 3.

Yuri Gagarin was the first human in space. He didn't build the rocket he flew on and he represented the Soviet Union which was a brutal regime, but you can celebrate the achievement without endorsing the regime can't you?

That's quite an absurd argument. You can't compare the two situations.

For one thing, Yuri Gagarin actually did what he and the people behind him set out to do.

For another, Yuri Gagarin didn't went on to personally commit atrocities.

And for yet another, Gagarin's accomplishment had no negative effects on the rest of humanity, intended or unintended.
 
As someone with Native heritage (Pueblo and Cheyenne), I voted no.

History should not be scrubbed to ease the anxieties of those determined to be offended.

I would have no problem with indigenous day having its own day. I would celebrate it by grilling up some venison and baking some corn bread.
What if in fact the image of Columbus was scrubbed and actual person while historically significant and someone to be studied as part of history was no one that deserves celebrating?
 
That's great, fuck Columbus. Speaking of which, HAPPY MOTHERFUCKING LEIF ERIKSON DAY!!!

leif-ericson-day-meme-41.jpg

Mass genocide? I guess you and I are reading different sources on this. Name one single European explorer who unleashed mass-genocide against indigenous American peoples. And provide proof. Because it certainly was not Columbus.
 
To be fair to all races of any generation we should tear down all statues, monuments or public icons honoring any individual or action. We should also rename all current streets and buildings named after people. We should rename any holiday or festival that honors a person or group. Sanitize it ALL because someone somewhere is very likely offended by it regardless of what it is.

Fuck all this pussy footing about. Just wipe it all clean, generically name what remains. If they can't be happy or proud, you can't be happy or proud. If they can't honor a person, place or thing than you can't honor a person, place or thing.
Your trolling missing the point.

I would agree that all statues and monuments and public icons that are proven to be misrepresented and which were historical inaccurate should be torn down.

Why would anyone be of the view that just because its been around a while we should ignore the truth and keep it out of some form of misplaced nostalgia?
 
Mass genocide? I guess you and I are reading different sources on this. Name one single European explorer who unleashed mass-genocide against indigenous American peoples. And provide proof. Because it certainly was not Columbus.
Fine, he just enslaved the local population and fed babies to his dogs while chopping the hands off of slaves who didn't work fast enough in the mines. The genocide came later, he just set the precedent and introduced the plague that wiped out over 33 million people. Sorry if I misled anyone.
 
I have a question to mods. Why was the Weinstein thread wastelanded? I actually had a few thoughts I wanted to share on it but now that it is gone I am not going to.
 
I mean.... Niether did Columbus. And... You realize who the Vikings were right? And you understand why their settlement died out? Some people are so far removed from understanding historical context it blows my mind.
Are you going to tell me the vikings, which were a profession not a people, were ruthless barbarians who just raped and pillaged wherever they went, and then tell me that I lack understanding?
 
Of course. We can credit Columbus with nothing other than sheer dumb luck.
No, explorers had to be pretty good navigators. All of these guys had rare navigating skills at the time, Vasco da Gama, Pedro Alvares Cabral, Columbus, Diaz, Magellan, Vespucci and so on.
Sure Columbus was lucky, but if he was just an idiot chances are he would have died regardless on the voyage. Moreover he was able to survive some tough shit, like getting shipwrecked in Jamaica, carving out canoes to reach the nearest inhabited island(100 miles away) and surviving that ordeal.
Funnily enough he was as hated in his time as he is nowadays, he was sent to prison in the new world and people shitted all over him and claimed Amerigo Vespucci actually discovered the americas lol.
 
What did Columbus ever legitimately do for the United States?
His "discovery" of America didn't land him on the continental US. His real name isn't even Christopher Columbus, It'd be like saying Leonardo Di Vinci as Leonard of Vinci

Yes. Columbus day is disgusting. He killed lots of natives. I refuse to stand to honor a man that oppressed people of color.

I thought liberals didnt want to celebrate the losers of a war with the US government? I'm confused

Without Columbus the story of America isn't told and the story of America is bloody

Who gives a shit about Columbus day. Has nothing to do with America. A day to celebrate and commerate the native people's seems better than Columbus day, if you're gonna do a day at all.

Christopher Columbus was a piece of shit and has nothing to do with United States History.

I vote "yes".

He never stepped one foot in America. Guy was a loser, and I don't celebrate losers.
He was looking for a different route to India and lucked out that he hit some islands in the Caribbean.
Hell one of his crew spotted the island first, but shit head Columbus claimed he did it.
If Italians want a holiday so bad, go back to fucking Italy.

Alright, you bunch of goofballs, I see it is once again that time of year where I have to educate you all once again as to the real story of Cristobal Columbo, AKA Christopher Columbus. The modern story of Christopher Columbus as it is told, the story of genocide and what not, comes entirely for Howard Zinn, who on top of being a huge Liberal is a massive and well documented liar. Zinn's entire account of the Columbus tale not only incorrectly claims that Columbus was responsible for committing genoicide on the Taino and exterminating them from the earth (despite the fact that they still exist all across South America today) but tells the story that this was the only tribe that Columbus encountered. This is not true. Columbus dealt with at least 3 tribes of Natives in Haiti, the Arawaks, the Taino and the Carib. The Carib and the Taino were the ones dealt with the most, as the Taino where seen by Columbus and his men as wealthy and properous, and the Carib constantly attacked them and more than likely engaged in Cannibalism. Early on in their interactions Columbus and his men essentially served as muscle for the Taino as they fought against the Carib, and the absolutely enslaved natives and put them to work in the mines. The natives they enslaved were Carib and Arawaks captured in fights against the Taino. The claim that he and his men killed millions of people is beyond preposterous. He never had more than a few hundred soldiers, if that, with him at any given time. Secondly, Columbus had a Priest with him during his second voyage and afterward named Bartolome De Las Casas. De Las Casas was one of the main witnesses against Columbus when he was eventually put on trial later in his life for the very same crimes that Zinn is accusing him of today. One of the main pieces of evidence against him was a "secret" journal that De Las Casas had taken of Columbus' that he sent back to Spain along with other reports on the situation in Haiti about the crfimes Columbus was allegedly committing. This Journal was the basis for much almost all of Zinn's work. Just a slight problem though. The journal was written in beautiful hand writing, in gramatically perfect Latin and Greek. Columbus, however was an unducated peasant who could barely write legibly in Italian or Spanish, the only two languages that he spoke. Columbus was exonerated for the crimes that he is still accused of to this day by people like Zinn WHILE HE WAS STILL ALIVE IN THE LATE 1400S.

Now, let's address the silly "He got lost going to India" line of thinking. This is just as absurd. Columbus grew up in Genoa, at the time the single most important port city in the world. He was a cartographer's assistant at 14, during a time when maps where used as currency. He would have grown up making maps from around the world, and had access to all of the knowledge within. By his mid 20s he was at sea and his late 20s the capitan of his own ship that had made at least 2 trips to Iceland, the place that just so happens to be the home of Lief Erickson. People don't seem to realize that amongst seafareing peoples the fact that there was land far away to the West was a commonly accepted fact for roughly 500 years by the time Columbus came around. What Columbus did was con Spain into agreeing to name him the Duke of any previously undiscovered lands that he may encounter on his way West with rights to profits from trade and title to descend through his hiers for ever. The rest is history. That's the real story of Columbus, glad I could be of help.
 
Are you going to tell me the vikings, which were a profession not a people, were ruthless barbarians who just raped and pillaged wherever they went, and then tell me that I lack understanding?

So I'm taking that as a "no".
 
Alright, you bunch of goofballs, I see it is once again that time of year where I have to educate you all once again as to the real story of Cristobal Columbo, AKA Christopher Columbus. The modern story of Christopher Columbus as it is told, the story of genocide and what not, comes entirely for Howard Zinn, who on top of being a huge Liberal is a massive and well documented liar. Zinn's entire account of the Columbus tale not only incorrectly claims that Columbus was responsible for committing genoicide on the Taino and exterminating them from the earth (despite the fact that they still exist all across South America today) but tells the story that this was the only tribe that Columbus encountered. This is not true. Columbus dealt with at least 3 tribes of Natives in Haiti, the Arawaks, the Taino and the Carib. The Carib and the Taino were the ones dealt with the most, as the Taino where seen by Columbus and his men as wealthy and properous, and the Carib constantly attacked them and more than likely engaged in Cannibalism. Early on in their interactions Columbus and his men essentially served as muscle for the Taino as they fought against the Carib, and the absolutely enslaved natives and put them to work in the mines. The natives they enslaved were Carib and Arawaks captured in fights against the Taino. The claim that he and his men killed millions of people is beyond preposterous. He never had more than a few hundred soldiers, if that, with him at any given time. Secondly, Columbus had a Priest with him during his second voyage and afterward named Bartolome De Las Casas. De Las Casas was one of the main witnesses against Columbus when he was eventually put on trial later in his life for the very same crimes that Zinn is accusing him of today. One of the main pieces of evidence against him was a "secret" journal that De Las Casas had taken of Columbus' that he sent back to Spain along with other reports on the situation in Haiti about the crfimes Columbus was allegedly committing. This Journal was the basis for much almost all of Zinn's work. Just a slight problem though. The journal was written in beautiful hand writing, in gramatically perfect Latin and Greek. Columbus, however was an unducated peasant who could barely write legibly in Italian or Spanish, the only two languages that he spoke. Columbus was exonerated for the crimes that he is still accused of to this day by people like Zinn WHILE HE WAS STILL ALIVE IN THE LATE 1400S.

Now, let's address the silly "He got lost going to India" line of thinking. This is just as absurd. Columbus grew up in Genoa, at the time the single most important port city in the world. He was a cartographer's assistant at 14, during a time when maps where used as currency. He would have grown up making maps from around the world, and had access to all of the knowledge within. By his mid 20s he was at sea and his late 20s the capitan of his own ship that had made at least 2 trips to Iceland, the place that just so happens to be the home of Lief Erickson. People don't seem to realize that amongst seafareing peoples the fact that there was land far away to the West was a commonly accepted fact for roughly 500 years by the time Columbus came around. What Columbus did was con Spain into agreeing to name him the Duke of any previously undiscovered lands that he may encounter on his way West with rights to profits from trade and title to descend through his hiers for ever. The rest is history. That's the real story of Columbus, glad I could be of help.
So you support racism and genocide. Got it.
 
Alright, you bunch of goofballs, I see it is once again that time of year where I have to educate you all once again as to the real story of Cristobal Columbo, AKA Christopher Columbus. The modern story of Christopher Columbus as it is told, the story of genocide and what not, comes entirely for Howard Zinn, who on top of being a huge Liberal is a massive and well documented liar. Zinn's entire account of the Columbus tale not only incorrectly claims that Columbus was responsible for committing genoicide on the Taino and exterminating them from the earth (despite the fact that they still exist all across South America today) but tells the story that this was the only tribe that Columbus encountered. This is not true. Columbus dealt with at least 3 tribes of Natives in Haiti, the Arawaks, the Taino and the Carib. The Carib and the Taino were the ones dealt with the most, as the Taino where seen by Columbus and his men as wealthy and properous, and the Carib constantly attacked them and more than likely engaged in Cannibalism. Early on in their interactions Columbus and his men essentially served as muscle for the Taino as they fought against the Carib, and the absolutely enslaved natives and put them to work in the mines. The natives they enslaved were Carib and Arawaks captured in fights against the Taino. The claim that he and his men killed millions of people is beyond preposterous. He never had more than a few hundred soldiers, if that, with him at any given time. Secondly, Columbus had a Priest with him during his second voyage and afterward named Bartolome De Las Casas. De Las Casas was one of the main witnesses against Columbus when he was eventually put on trial later in his life for the very same crimes that Zinn is accusing him of today. One of the main pieces of evidence against him was a "secret" journal that De Las Casas had taken of Columbus' that he sent back to Spain along with other reports on the situation in Haiti about the crfimes Columbus was allegedly committing. This Journal was the basis for much almost all of Zinn's work. Just a slight problem though. The journal was written in beautiful hand writing, in gramatically perfect Latin and Greek. Columbus, however was an unducated peasant who could barely write legibly in Italian or Spanish, the only two languages that he spoke. Columbus was exonerated for the crimes that he is still accused of to this day by people like Zinn WHILE HE WAS STILL ALIVE IN THE LATE 1400S.

Now, let's address the silly "He got lost going to India" line of thinking. This is just as absurd. Columbus grew up in Genoa, at the time the single most important port city in the world. He was a cartographer's assistant at 14, during a time when maps where used as currency. He would have grown up making maps from around the world, and had access to all of the knowledge within. By his mid 20s he was at sea and his late 20s the capitan of his own ship that had made at least 2 trips to Iceland, the place that just so happens to be the home of Lief Erickson. People don't seem to realize that amongst seafareing peoples the fact that there was land far away to the West was a commonly accepted fact for roughly 500 years by the time Columbus came around. What Columbus did was con Spain into agreeing to name him the Duke of any previously undiscovered lands that he may encounter on his way West with rights to profits from trade and title to descend through his hiers for ever. The rest is history. That's the real story of Columbus, glad I could be of help.

You're a dolt.
 
You're a dolt.

Sooo... you don't... actually... have a counter... argument? Wierd... Could it be because you don't have any actual position of your own other to just scream "RACIST" at the top of your lungs the way you've been told?
 
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