Communism was the most evil ideology of the XX century by a long shot.

[tonni]

I’d say capitalism isn’t far off. Of course, the ideology of capitalism never gets blamed, it’s always collateral damage in the search for profit.

 

[Prutfis]

Today communism is mostly harmless. Islam not so much.

I don´t think the aftermath of 9/11 (the war on terror etc) can be called inconsequential.

 

[tonni]

I don't know, democracy was a pretty evil ideology as well.
If you look at the crimes committed by the British and French empire.
They are not far behind the Soviets. They certainly have the Nazi beat in horribleness.
I am not sure they could be covered under the ideological term democracy maybe more imperialism?

Capitalist imperialism/colonialism.

 

[InternetHero]

Mao was an incompetent boob who woefully mismanaged the Chinese economy, but no one (no one) has ever estimated that 78 million people died during the Cultural Revolution (lol), let alone that he (i.e. the Chinese government themselves) carried out the killings. The total death toll (i.e. persons who were killed according to some political mandate or stimuli) is estimated between 700,000 and 3 million, with an average estimate of about 2 million, or about 0.3% of the country's population. That's huge and nothing at all to scoff at or sweep under the rug, but it's a tiny fraction of what you are saying.

The larger death toll is famine-related during the Great Leap Forward, during which Mao experimented with fixed wage agricultural systems and expropriated foodstuffs to aid third world nations and to repay national debts. During the GLF, an estimated 15-40 million persons died in excess of the normal death rate. I think the more appropriate analysis, though, is that the death rate rose from 15 per 1,000 (in 1955) to 25 per 1,000 (in 1959).

This is approaching what things were like.

During the Great Leap Forward, when Mao thrust his loathsome economic anchor upon the Mainland, the widespread starvation entered the national consciousness for generations, in a land used to famines.

Families cooked their own children in some places, not a legend, that is what Mao's hubris and blind ideological hatred wrought.

As for the Cultural Revolution, that death toll is somewhat accurate, although accurate during the Culture Revolution is a ??? as China closed off, and those who tried to look in from the outside often... disappeared... I was good friends with a great professor back in my University days. His girlfriend from that era was an Anarchist, "An idealist if there ever was one," he said with some fondest. She went to join the Red Guard, never to return.

That anecdote aside, if we take somewhere like Tibet for an example, the Red Guard went in, stirred up trouble, the locals rose up, and were massacred (to the tune of hundreds of thousands, maybe a million, I did some primary source research on it, and the best we have is some letters and Maoist boasting about the desecration and loss of life.)

The people were then forced from their (admittedly primitive and backwards) feudalistic lifestyles into full-blown collective farming and destruction of their history and culture.

Whoops?

That's the big thing, and why we can not undermine Mao as a simple fool or thug. He utterly destroyed Chinese culture with a callow ersatz religion of socialist dogma and latter cult of personality that was, no shock, utterly dehumanizing and awful. To this day, the Mainland struggles under the lack of tangible value, of any understanding of deeper life or ethics.

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[Trotsky]

At least @ him @Trotsky

Meh, the guy's a troll. He's carrying on about how it's irrelevant to talk about the Nazi Party's actual policy platform as definitive of the party and ideology, instead of just saying that Nazi ideology was the massive genocide of Jewish Europeans a decade after the party came to power. Likewise, I'm sure it's his position that the ideological tenets of communism are the massive political purges carried out by Stalin in the late 1930s.

I’d say capitalism isn’t far off. Of course, the ideology of capitalism never gets blamed, it’s always collateral damage in the search for profit.

In terms of actual death toll, it's not comparable: capitalism has killed exponentially more people around the world, but those deaths aren't as easily directly tied to capitalist governance. I would hesitate to even try to estimate the amount of excess deaths in Africa and Latin America in the 20th century as a result of capitalist policy, intervention, and neo-colonialism.

 

[Trotsky]

Good grief, did they have to accentuate communist Superman's dick bulge so much?

 

[Trotsky]

Socialism often takes on those kinds of ridiculously evil premises, Pol Pot gives a thumbs up from hell, but not quite in such an aggressive and repugnant way.

Pot is easily the most uniquely evil figure of the 20th century imo. Stalin was a sadistic thug, Mao was an incompetent charlatan nihilist, but Pot was some horrifying hybrid of paranoia, sadism, and genuine delusions of Maoist ideology. It's incredible to me how, still to this day, no one talks about the United States propping him up and supporting Khmer Rouge.

 

[InternetHero]

Pot is easily the most uniquely evil figure of the 20th century imo. Stalin was a sadistic thug, Mao was an incompetent charlatan nihilist, but Pot was some horrifying hybrid of paranoia, sadism, and genuine delusions of Maoist ideology. It's incredible to me how, still to this day, no one talks about the United States propping him up and supporting Khmer Rouge.

I was onboard with your post until the last line.

The reason most do not complain about the United States "propping him up," is that the vast majority of Pol Pot's support, to the point of military intervention, was from Mao Zedong.

Mao hoisted Pol Pot and his terror out for the world to see, no prop needed.

 

[nhbbear]

Hmm, yes, from a logical standpoint something like Nazism has to be seen as irredeemably evil by anyone applying ration and a sane view of morality.

The intent of Nazism was is to aggressively wage war, in order to perpetrate the extermination of peoples' for the sake of pride and territory. It's almost comically evil.

Socialism often takes on those kinds of ridiculously evil premises, Pol Pot gives a thumbs up from hell, but not quite in such an aggressive and repugnant way.

Yeah, I weighed the evils of pol pot and his genocide, but the nazis tried to eliminate an entire religion to the tune of 6 million, plus all those that died fighting those assholes.

 

[HIMBOB]

And by communism i mean the soviet, applied variety, not marxist theory.

So you retract the title in the opening sentence???

 

[Trotsky]

I was onboard with your post until the last line.

The reason most do not complain about the United States "propping him up," is that the vast majority of Pol Pot's support, to the point of military intervention, was from Mao Zedong.

Mao hoisted Pol Pot and his terror out for the world to see, no prop needed.

Well, sure, but the US was not merely a silent partner. Fifty million dollars in aid, logistical and intelligence support, and a seat at the UN is nothing to scoff at. And that's setting aside US-led bombings and ousters that, with explicit CIA knowledge, gave KR the chance to seize power.

 

[Bald1]

I’d say capitalism isn’t far off. Of course, the ideology of capitalism never gets blamed, it’s always collateral damage in the search for profit.

You're comparing and economic theory with an ideologogy that always turns into a state religion. Not excusing the negatives of unrestrained capitalism, or unbridled greed, just saying it's an apples to oranges comparison.

Nevermind that many people (google capitalism helps poor) attribute capitalism with helping to alleviate poverty globally. But then the counter argument can be made that a well fed slave is a productive one, so it's not clear cut.



I think communism is one of the big three colossaly, monumentally, craptastic ideas we've ever come up with. What sets it apart is that if we ever reach a Starfleet level of cooperation and selflessness then it could work as it's not really inherently authoritarian, but our shortcomings make it so. Like someone said - great idea, wrong species.

As for the swastika and hammer & sickle eclipsing the star & crescent in fuckery? Well, obviously. But lets not pretend that Islam had the same resources and technology as its competitors in buggery from the start of the industrial revolution up until the end of WW2. It had a good run at the crown, but the competitions technology outpaced their abilities. Had the will, but not the means in other words. Worry not, as SA has the buying power, and Pakistan has the will to now give it a go at a podium finish. They've been training for this opportunity for centuries, after all.

And yes, my bias against Islam did play a hand in that last paragraph where I (somewhat) tongue in cheek equated Islam with SA and Pakistan. I think that religion would mellow without the influence emanating from those countries, and of course, without our support of them.

 

[grimballer]

The “evils” of communism are blown outta proportion by revisionist history right wingers.

While there are many negative aspects to it, it also did have positive impact on the society

Women rights improved under communism

Poor ppl had access to healthcare n education

Everybody was treated equally

It’s also thanks to communists nazis didn’t take over the world

Ask any “sub human” which system they would prefer?

 

[Rusk]

Nazis were evil to others not to their own people, relatively speaking. Soviets were evil more to their own people.

Trotsky/Lenin era was far more evil, in quality than Stalin`s era. You can really see what communists can do to a country. They destroyed Russian culture almost to the point of no return, they killed all the best people, and left the garbage as rulling class.

I think the fate of the "Communist movement" was sealed when it overlapped with Russian nihilist movements, embodied by Stalin (and later adhered to by the likes of Mao and Pol Pot). To nihilist ideologues, the revolution itself was the end goal, compassionate causes merely being used as devices to rally desperate people into rebellion. Thus, preserving the revolutionary state at the expense of these so-called compassionate causes, was no great compromise, once the revolution had been achieved.

Mao once made the argument that the spirit of the revolution would begin to decay if the people became too comfortable (apparently this did not concern himself or his cronies who lived lavishly).

It's pretty much the same deal with "National socialism", which came to be influenced by various radical German ideologies, that have come to define the ideology far more so than any economic/political principles. It is pretty much a dirty word now, and inseparable from anti-Semitism, militarism, reactionary stances, even though there may politically be some merit to a more "conservative" and nationally-minded alternative to mainstream socialism (which today tends to be defined by internationalist and left-wing perspectives).

You can't hope to separate the rotten elements from the origin ideology at this point, so it's best to just move on, and leave Communism and Nazism to gather the dust.

There is a very relevant movie, called The Chekist (1992)
One can find it on youtube. I can`t post it here since there are some naked dead bodies even in the trailer.

 

[Rusk]

The “evils” of communism are blown outta proportion by revisionist history right wingers.

While there are many negative aspects to it, it also did have positive impact on the society

Well i am an evil right-winger. So lets see.

Women rights improved under communism

Can`t see anything positive here. It is Russians we are talking about not Scandinavians. Russian women went right back to traditional roles after SU fall. Thank God.

Poor ppl had access to healthcare n education

Agree, although, it probably would be the same results without mass genocide of the Slavs. As for education, we have Communist revisionists who is blowing out of proportion how uneducated tsarists Russia was.

Everybody was treated equally

It’s also thanks to communists nazis didn’t take over the world

Yeah but then again Nazis were mostly bad for Slavic people, Westerners would be ok under Nazis.

Ask any “sub human” which system they would prefer?

As a sub-human i do not prefer Communism tbh...

 

[InternetHero]

Well, sure, but the US was not merely a silent partner. Fifty million dollars in aid, logistical and intelligence support, and a seat at the UN is nothing to scoff at. And that's setting aside US-led bombings and ousters that, with explicit CIA knowledge, gave KR the chance to seize power.

It was utterly shameful for the United States to support Pol Pot keeping his seat at the U.N.

A couple of things I would suggest we all keep in mind though,

1. Mao developed the ideology that led to the atrocity.
2. Mao gave the tremendous amount of military, material, and financial support to the atrocities.

Let us also not forget, that the U.S. had finished on the losing side of a war against a Communist rival, and was trying to open China as a front to the geopolitical clout of the Soviet Union.

Does that excuse the U.S. poor faith, or for that matter, abandoning Laos to be ravaged by the North Vietnamese? No.

That said, if we were weighing the moral scales of the regional actors, the United States looks saintly compared to Mao's China, or anyone else in the neighborhood, or most in the world neighborhood at the time.

 

[InternetHero]

Nazis were evil to others not to their own people, relatively speaking. Soviets were evil more to their own people.

The Nazi's murdered their dissidents in mass.

How can that not be evil against their own people?

 

[grimballer]

Well i am an evil right-winger. So lets see.



Can`t see anything positive here. It is Russians we are talking about not Scandinavians. Russian women went right back to traditional roles after SU fall. Thank God.

Yeah who needs women doctors, teachers or scientists?

The role of women is housewives or prostitutes

Agree, although, it probably would be the same results without mass genocide of the Slavs. As for education, we have Communist revisionists who is blowing out of proportion how uneducated tsarists Russia was.

Yeah all those serfs were getting their phds n had amazing medical care

On paper...

If you’re a nationalist ahole it’s another thing.

It’s still better than getting slaughtered for your religion or hanged cause of the colour of your skin

Yeah but then again Nazis were mostly bad for Slavic people, Westerners would be ok under Nazis.

That is close to 50% of euro population

Being killed for your political opinion > being killed for who you are n your ethnicity

As a sub-human i do not prefer Communism tbh...

I’m sure you would change your tune if you were shipped to a concentration camp n “evil” communists saved your ass

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

Sure you didn't mean to post this?