conditiong

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by tekkenfan, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    do you think that it is genetic that some people no matter how hard they train just cant get through 3 5 minute rounds in pro mma for instance some guys just gas in every fight in late rounds or do you think its more of them not training properly or not being smart and being to tense
     
  2. NurseKnuckles

    NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

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    Likely a genetic issue, mixed with a training issue, mixed with a weight cut, mixed with the pressure of thousands of dollars on the line, mixed with adrenaline dump, mixed with being punched in the face, mixed with wrestling, mixed with managing the pace of your opponent.

    Its why they call it mixed martial arts.
     
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  3. hearthstone25

    hearthstone25 Green Belt

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    Conor is that you??
     
  4. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    what about guys in the gym who just cant get through certain hard practices i see some guys can just roll all day at a very high pace and some guys who been training years can hardly roll hard for 9 minutes before thy have to stop do u think its a genetic thing somehow or them being lazy?
     
  5. Dream Evil

    Dream Evil Purple Belt

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    I think it's like anything else.... some people are naturally stronger, some are faster, some have an edge in cardio.

    There are so many factors in fighting, though...I don't think you can pin a fighter's poor conditioning on any one thing in most cases
     
  6. NurseKnuckles

    NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

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    Consider your local postman. He/she/it+/- walks every single day for hours. He should be fit as fuck, right? Not always. If he/she/it+/- doesn't speed up the walk, or lengthen the distance or add some sort of resistance, he/she/it+/- will never progress past their normal. Some people train a lot, but never push themselves into the uncomfortable zone where changes occur. I compare a lot of these people to "hard gainers." they think they eat or the case of the BJJers, train a lot but often they're never really pushing themselves. That uncomfortable zone is very uncomfortable.
     
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  7. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    i guess that goes back to what i normally tell guys at smaller gyms i find the fittest people are blue belts because they have to battle for everything they have vs each other and if theres purples or brown sin the gym once you hit purple and brown black u can play with guys if theres no good purples ect in the gym so anytime u do compete ect youll find yourself gassing due to never having to use any real energy to stop guys
     
  8. Robocok

    Robocok Purple Belt

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    It has most to due with not understanding periodization and training zones based on heart rate. Following a training structure used for sports like cycling, running, and swimming will make a big difference in cardio performance. Read Joe Friel or Greg Lemond's book, learn the importance of building a base and training at threshold and you will improve.
     
  9. JonJonesLines

    JonJonesLines Orange Belt

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    It has to do with mental toughness. You are going to get tired, that’s the simple fact of things. It’s how you react that decides how the fight will go. Do you listen to the thought that says “alright let’s fucking go, he’s getting tired time to put in on him” or do you listen to the thought that says “come on let’s get out of here, you’re so tired man?”

    Now if you aren’t in any sort of shape, your mental toughness doesn’t matter.
     
  10. Robocok

    Robocok Purple Belt

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    Mental toughness isn't going to help much if you don't know how to train properly. You need drive and the will to push, but if you don't know what you're doing then you won't go as far as you could otherwise.

    Periodization and a structured training plan with clear goals to develop a base and threshold is the best way, then mental toughness to follow through with it.
     
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  11. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Not only that, but a lot of it has to do with economy of motion as well. Being in excellent shape is a great advantage, but being able to relax and have high level efficiency when doing your sport will let you carry the same amount of energy for much longer.

    I am in pretty poor shape VO2 wise and I have asthma as well. However, I can outlast many guys sparring and doing drills because I can relax through the movements. Movements that are getting so ingrained that I don't use very much energy doing them. Also, there's the matter of conserving energy at the right times. Performing is the sum of the whole.

    Running your head into the wall as your main priority is not a smart way to train or build up your various capacities.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018 at 8:21 AM
  12. Robocok

    Robocok Purple Belt

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    Very true, proper technique and efficient use of energy is important.

    I've been sparring more and don't get as tense as I used to but still lots of room to improve. It's rewarding and fun seeing both sides of physical capacity and good technique improve and all come together.
     
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  13. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Definitely, thats the way to go!
     
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  14. JonJonesLines

    JonJonesLines Orange Belt

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    My answer didn’t include that info as I thought it was obvious you need a solid training plan. These guys are professionals. People from great camps with a great conditioning plan still gas because they cannot function when tired. That’s a lack of mental toughness.

    Yes efficiency of motion is also important, you can’t go 100% the entire time. You also have to pick and choose your spots when to “rest” and when to explode. However, a lack of mental toughness only slightly prolongs this against a world class athlete whose trying to make you as tired as possible.

    This is why I view mental toughness the most important for the pro guys. They all have efficient movement patterns and personalized & effective conditioning plans. It’s whether they can function when they are exhausted or not.
     
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  15. Robocok

    Robocok Purple Belt

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    I don't think it's a given that all fighters have their conditioning down to a science as much as athletes from sports such as running, cycling, and swimming do. In fighting, technique is so important that it can outweigh conditioning in importance.

    Combining the two traits, technique and condition can be a big advantage and is one of the reasons the Diaz bros were so successful in mma in spite of being big potheads. They had experience with triathlons and had spent the time developing an aerobic base in addition to having phenomenal bjj and boxing.

    I think periodization and a methological approach to building cardio properly by focusing on aerobic base, tempo, threshold, and anaerobic work in the proper lengths (for example: building aerobic base takes much longer than anaerobic work) is something that is lacking for a lot of fighters.

    A lot of fighters approach to training is to work their ass off and train at too high of an intensity all of the time (high intensity is very important and beneficial but is powerful medicine. It's easy to overdo it, especially without a solid base foundation). This isn't altogether a bad thing but can lead to burn out, injuries, and the fighter not having the aerobic capacity they otherwise would have been able to attain had they spent 2-3 months focused on developing their aerobic system and not allowing their ego or toughness to cause them to push too hard during a time when it's more beneficial to work for longer at a lower heart rate.

    Mental toughness is definitely important not just in training but also competition, but it's not going to make as much of a difference if the fighter and coach don't understand how to prepare utilizing a periodized approach.
     
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  16. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Great comment!
     
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  17. BillytheFish

    BillytheFish Purple Belt

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    Great comment, train smarter not longer. Obviously there are exceptions though. Personally took me many years to figure out that alot of training I had was simply designed to be difficult for difficult's sake, rather than a well thought out process.

    When I was a kid I'd run an hour to the boxing gym in layers of clothes, train there 2 hours and run back. Sometimes there'd be a shithead coach who'd make us run for an hour when we arrived 'just cos'. Two hours of running before a boxing session...obviously retarded...at the time I was too young to know better though.
     
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