Contraindicated Lifts aka The Stuff You Will Not Do??

I mean it all depends. Factors like which athlete are we dealing with, what is the task that needs to be done and where does both of those things exist on the force-velocity curve. Then you have another factor of sport/biomechanic specific vs not. No doubt that olympic lifts are amazing, and as far as strength-speed goes it's hard to match.

Hey, I authored a thread about Force-Velocity and Specificity and was treated like a troll! What the heck? Haha.
 
Really? How come?

Yes. I was treated as a troll. I was raising the stance some S&C researchers like Jeremy Loenecke take on specificity. His argument used was that lifting heavy makes you slow. Want to sprint fast or faster? Practice sprinting faster was his declaration. Even Stuart McGill the spine guru who likes MMA and studied fighters like GSP and I think even BJ Penn stated in passing the concept of relaxation and impulse. Impulse is Force divided by a small time interval.

People get irate over everything. Just look at this thread devolve into semantics.
 
ITT: Stuff You Won’t Do Because You Don’t Know How

I don't think that is a fair assessment. Every case is different. Underlying conditions could legitimately keep you from participating in something.

From personal experience, I have done everything as it pertained to sport, rec, or job duties. Over the years because of injuries, and amassing a wide range of doc notes in my file I avoid some things. Now I can do them, but I pick and choose what I do or don't based on my circumstances. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes not so much. lol

For example, I have cartilage damage in my knee (MRI confirmed) and when I was performing back squats my knee buckled as I was in the concentric phase of the lift. This was not as much embarrassing as it was potentially dangerous. I was able to regain control, but I was unstable, my knee was in pain and I was admittedly worried.

It's not always a matter of knowledge. Some stuff is just not a good recommendation for you.
 
Again, it depends entirely on the task and the athlete.

Verkhoshansky, and after that Yessis, has done some great work on plyometrics and the SSC, but it's not the holy grail of exercise science, nor does it have to be. Yes oly lifts have a great carryover to vertical jumping because of the loading schemes and biomechanics (triple extension), but various other exercises including plyometrics, supramaximal/assisted jumps, various squat/trapbar jumps and even increasing MVC seperately has been shown in the literature to improve vertical to the same degree. The key is finding out what your athlete needs.

Btw, maximum power as in watt, is a measure of velocity x force. This most often peaks around 30-40% of 1RM, but it's probably trainable within 20-80% 1RM to some degree. However, sticking with the vertical jump as an example, power is not the only factor. The balance of the two variables, force and velocity, matters equally. In some cases, velocity training, even supramaximal velocity training (which cannot be done with olympic lifts) is more important, in others increase MVC is more important. Morin et al have done some really interesting stuff recently showing that power can stay the same, while vertical can improve, as long as the balance between the two are more evenly matched to the persons ability. If you really want to know, you can check these two out:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...iles_for_Individualized_and_Specific_Training
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ed_on_Force-Velocity_Profiling_during_Jumping

I'd highly recommend JB Morin and Samozino for this, they are doing some excellent work right now.

Further, biomechanics matter. Olympic lifting might improve power in punching as well, but it's more geared toward upward and forward momentum, depending on how you modify the exercises. I use them as well, but more for the right hand transfer and only applicable for a specific point on the force-velocity curve. There's no hip rotation which is a downside, and you can't do supramaximal velocity work with it as well. Luckely, there's plenty of other training tools including medballs and bands.

Studies are made to be broken. You have to replicate the findings across multiple sample types and sizes. I agree what is suitable for one may not be suitable for all. That is why we have things like a bell curve, and outliers. The mean or the "norm" is a good place to start, but nothing is more valuable than practical application or experimentation in finding what works for your case.
 
I don't think that is a fair assessment. Every case is different. Underlying conditions could legitimately keep you from participating in something.

From personal experience, I have done everything as it pertained to sport, rec, or job duties. Over the years because of injuries, and amassing a wide range of doc notes in my file I avoid some things. Now I can do them, but I pick and choose what I do or don't based on my circumstances. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes not so much. lol

For example, I have cartilage damage in my knee (MRI confirmed) and when I was performing back squats my knee buckled as I was in the concentric phase of the lift. This was not as much embarrassing as it was potentially dangerous. I was able to regain control, but I was unstable, my knee was in pain and I was admittedly worried.

It's not always a matter of knowledge. Some stuff is just not a good recommendation for you.
Underlying conditions aside, you shouldn’t get hurt doing an exercise unless your form sucks or you try to go too heavy.
 
Yes. I was treated as a troll. I was raising the stance some S&C researchers like Jeremy Loenecke take on specificity. His argument used was that lifting heavy makes you slow. Want to sprint fast or faster? Practice sprinting faster was his declaration. Even Stuart McGill the spine guru who likes MMA and studied fighters like GSP and I think even BJ Penn stated in passing the concept of relaxation and impulse. Impulse is Force divided by a small time interval.

People get irate over everything. Just look at this thread devolve into semantics.

That is unfortunate. People can be biased towards things that only confirm their own preexisting beliefs. I, typically favor, coming into a discussion with a legitimate desire to learn.

In discussions I have noticed a few groups:

1) Those that don't know what they're talking about (no evidence)
2) Those that do know what they're talking about
3) Those that do know what they're talking about but can't communicate it. They understand the concepts but not the technical reasoning for why.

There is a standardized approach for ex phys, ex science, training etc. However, people are coming from different backgrounds so the communication barrier is there. For example: I went through certifications before studying ex phys at the university level. I had a strong grasp of the concepts but some of the terminology, and equations were different (power = blah, blah , force = blah blah). I had to adjust to communicate in that setting.

People are often saying close to the same things, but communication barriers, and then add a sprinkle of ego and everything goes ….. KA BOOM!
 
Underlying conditions aside, you shouldn’t get hurt doing an exercise unless your form sucks or you try to go too heavy.

Yes, or you're doing something dumb from a biomechanics stand point which would lead to form being an issue as you noted. The stuff people come up with in the gym sometimes is very interesting, especially stuff I've seen in regards to hyperextension and load. lol
 
Yes, or you're doing something dumb from a biomechanics stand point which would lead to form being an issue as you noted. The stuff people come up with in the gym sometimes is very interesting, especially stuff I've seen in regards to hyperextension and load. lol
I’m more referring to the big 3 lifts. If an idiot gets hurt doing one legged overhead squats on a BOSU ball, no one to blame but themselves.

Too much load usually is what leads to form breakdown so they’re usually related. Or someone just comes in and has no idea how to do a lift and tries anyway.
 
Sometimes you do have to tweak your technique dependent upon body mechanics I.e. squat stance width or bench press grip width tho.
 
Yes. I was treated as a troll. I was raising the stance some S&C researchers like Jeremy Loenecke take on specificity. His argument used was that lifting heavy makes you slow. Want to sprint fast or faster? Practice sprinting faster was his declaration. Even Stuart McGill the spine guru who likes MMA and studied fighters like GSP and I think even BJ Penn stated in passing the concept of relaxation and impulse. Impulse is Force divided by a small time interval.

People get irate over everything. Just look at this thread devolve into semantics.
Specificity is definitely a thing. If you want to read more, check out this for a brief summary: https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/perspectives/just-get-strong-is-wrong/

With that said, there's still some carryover from general preparedness and strength to various activites, even in some cases at other velocities, muscle lenghts and directions that you train at. Again, it all depends.
 
Deadlifts and squats.

I don't deadlift because my legs and back is weak from not doing squats.

And I don't squat because one time 5 years ago when I was squatting, I shit myself and had a prolapse.

Now it's upper body every session.
 
i heard dumbbell flys are really bad for your shoulders, can anyone attest to this?
 
I was raising the stance some S&C researchers like Jeremy Loenecke take on specificity. His argument used was that lifting heavy makes you slow. Want to sprint fast or faster? Practice sprinting faster was his declaration.

Where can I locate Jeremy Loenecke research or article on his assessment on sport specificity? I tried googling it and so far I had no luck finding it.
 
I leave for a week and come back to this.? FFS...

Only shit I wont do is shit that is stupid like OLY lifts on a bosu ball or some dumb shit.
 
The only barbell stable surface movement that I will not do is the upright row. This is the only thing in the weight room that has ever caused me an injury. That said there are a lot of movements that I don't end up doing because you have to pick some and do them often in order to improve on them. How many people here are regularly doing the bent press?
 
Back squats. I was working at it hard but after getting tested my lower back is more activated than my legs. My legs are so long it's not a lift that makes sense for me. I'm learning front and split squats now.
 
Me too. Havent squatted for years because of a back injury, then now for the past year im doing front squats only. Its not quite easy to progress strength wise though but im not in a rush; getting 5 lbs (or even less)stronger a month is fine by me.
 
Squats without a box or deficit deadlifts.
Maybe one day if my functional mobility gets better.
Also any true overhead stuff.
 
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