cruz is king of smack take

[Gregoire1]

I don't know.
If I have to compare them all, IMO Cruz wins.
because Sonnen is the best, but most of it is scripted.
Conor is just laced with insults which IMO is not trash talk, is simply rude talk and more often than not, lacks the minimum taste (i.e. calling Siver a Nazi).
Bisping is better, more genuine, more "playful" but then again, Bisping has not accomplished nearly enough to be able to shut people up with his accomplishments...
As for Cruz, he is (IMO) the best trash talker because he leaves you with no response. He doesn't raise his voice nor lose his cool. He lets you talk, unlike Conor (for example) who tries to shut you up by screaming over you.

Very good observation, how you will describe Jones, DC and Ferguson shit-talking?

 

[ultramanhyata]

Conor and Bisping are the best at smack talk because Irish & british have similar sense of humour-it has playfulness & not serious, they can get the crowd going with it. Cruz smack talk is typically american, condescending & lacks the playful context.

I would add Hardy to that list. He used to do that winking, English smack talk and it was appealing for that reason.

 

[MadHouse]

Cruz is quick witted but a lot of the stuff he says is hypocritical and just straight up bullshit

 

[Kenny Powerth]

Maybe he is that good, bc TJ just sounded really dumb to me in all of those.

TJ: I’m gonna knock you out
Dom: How?
TJ: Don’t worry about it.

LOL

 

[Kenny Powerth]

Bisping takes a dump on Dom from a great height. Google Some of their interactions.

Well said sir.

 

[Rikishii]

only 15 yearold wigger kids like conor thinking hes a good shit talker chael and dom are obviously the best watch dom owning tj here a thing of beauty how he never raises his voice makes people so mad lol

Dude you are a fucking moron if you think Cruz has A level shit talking skills. He is just really good at annoying people. His insults are consistently weak as fuck and not even based in reality.

 

[Rikishii]

Conor and Bisping are the best at smack talk because Irish & british have similar sense of humour-it has playfulness & not serious, they can get the crowd going with it. Cruz smack talk is typically american, condescending & lacks the playful context.

Cruz is also fucking terrible at it. He relies on being as annoying as possible instead of witty or funny insults.

 

[Gregoire1]

My top-10 at trash-talking and "getting in your head":
Cruz/ Bisping
Ferguson
Conor
Covington
Nate/Nick
Jones
Sonnen
DC
Werdum

 

[Shaddows]

Very good observation, how you will describe Jones, DC and Ferguson shit-talking?

Jon is good. he is smug. (problem is: with all his issues outside the cage, it is hard to keep acting like you are all that)... but you see people eat it up.

DC... poor guy. he selected to be a good guy (which he is), but for the MMA crowd, it has a lot less appeal, so he comes out like whinny.... and that is also a turnoff.

Worse part is that after towel gate, he lost a little his "good guy" act. but then again, as long as Jon is out, he is fine. But Jon can turn the crowd against him with half a smile....


Fergunson is odd. He is almost as smug as Jon, but sometimes sounds just cringe-worthy. Then again, I might be biased since his TUF outburst ("where your kid at?" - while effective as hell, he had no problem crossing a line that goes far beyond the sport, and I don't like that). but as long as he keeps winning (especially against Khabib) , he might get a lot of hungry Conor fans who are MMA starved by their idol... but same as Jon/DC, if/when Conor comes back, they will have no problem turning on him without a second thought.

 

[Shaddows]

Mmm, but I didn't see what Diaz was trying to get at with that. He was talking about training with the best sparring partners in the world - as all fighters usually do - I bet if Conor said something like; 'not one of your team mates have won a UFC title' Diaz would have replied with something like 'eh, we don't fight midgets' even though Diaz is usually taller and has a longer reach than his opponents. Hickson Gracie was doing unconventional training methods and his son (whose name I can't remember) trains with Diaz and Conor made a reference to it which Diaz glossed over.

Well, the money thing would have annoyed Diaz as he's always being vocal about not getting paid enough and at that current time he was on 40K in total if he won. He even did an interview complaining about CM Punk being in the UFC - not for the fact he hadn't fought even an amateur fight, but that he'd probably make more money in 1 fight than Diaz had before he fought Conor. When they did go on that financial show, for whatever reason, Diaz had enough and stormed off. Though I'll give my opinion further down why i think he did.

That's the thing, you are mistaken.
Diaz trains with killers, guys who won tourneys and belts in competitions around the world... I defy you to compare both and see who has more name-value.
That is trash-talking, because it is related to who can get better prepared for a fight.
The talk about money though, has absolutely no connection to who is the better fighter which is why I disagree it is a good trash talk. It is just gloating over something that has no bearing on who is the better fighter.

I think both of them have some sort of anxiety related stuff going on. Diaz sr seems to be the worst affected by it. I've always noticed when he answers a question at a press conference he'll take a big breath in - which is panic attack prevention 101. After the 2nd press conference Diaz stormed off that 'money programme' and just before he did he was twiddling with his mic before he took it off and walked out. I felt like he was having a panic attack there - I have them myself - and that was what came to mind. Or I could be absolutely wrong.

No, I do agree with you. It is definitely something.
I am just glad it doesn't take their talent away... though it does make them predictable somehow... which is how they invariably lose matches (against guys who are not afraid to run from them and pick their spots).

Closer to a fight you can see a change in his demeanour, for sure. I don't think that means he's putting on a persona, but more flicking the switch up a notch mentally. What interviews are you referring to by the by by being more respectful? Look at the outfit he wore before 205 and the Mink top on the world tour - I don't think many people would wear outfits like that and I thought before 205 that outfit was a bit gimmicky and it wasn't only until a couple of days later I seen the picture of Joe Frazier wearing that outfit.

I get why people dislike him. But my take on him is if he was as arrogant as he's perceived, you wouldn't have all those Irish folk coming over for his fights. I think a lot of it is just him fucking about and if he was so ego centric, he'd need to be fed the attention he supposedly craves on a regular basis. Folk were talking about how quiet he went when Ferguson and Nurmagomedov were talking about him, but he goes off the grid after his fights and you don't see him being pictured out and about at home or doing interviews.

I've heard Rogan say he's treated like a God in Ireland - he's not. Most of those fans who travel over for the fights are going to Vegas just as much for the piss up than to watch the actual fight

hehehe I can see what you are saying, but there's more to that.
There are plenty of fighters who said pretty clearly that when there are no cameras around, COnor is a very nice guy. But anyone shows with a phone or a camera, and he starts with the screas and macho talk.
Heck, even Aldo said that. And he would have no reason to say Conor is a nice guy.

But he didn't get into the UFC without doing well on the regional circuit and I roll my eyes when people say he only fights for the money - seriously?

Well, sorry to say, but yeah, seriously.
Dana sees more than just guys winning fights. He sees the potential, and COnor has displayed this potential since he started fighting for the UFC.
"We are not here to take part, we are here to take over!" That was a memorable quote from his third fight where he was already the main event.
And look, I get you might think this is a slap in the face, but COnor himself always said this clearly in his interviews!
He said himself: he was not in for the glory and to stay for long. He was in to make money and leave before he has a chance to get an injury.
Face it: most his decisions were purely business decisions. Most to gain, least to lose.
And he doesn't care how it looks like.
That's why he faced two guys with no camp instead of facing other guys who were more prepared.
And that's why re blatantly refused to defend belts. He's obviously not afraid, but why do so?
There's nothing for him to gain and everything to lose.
That's great for him, but that's why (IMHO) it is terrible for MMA as a sport.
He is using the sport for his gain, and is uninterested in giving anything back (if he can). Like the belt.
He doesn't want to defend it, but why simply relinquish it? he will keep talking and stalling until they take it from him. But it has been years since he had them and never defended while perfectly healthy!
It is my turn now to say: It is beyond me how you can't see it this way!
Everything points at what I am saying. You got NOTHING to back you up on this.

I agree with the latter part of that, but you paint a picture that he was handed everything to him. He went out and did his media, drew attention to himself by slagging everyone in the FW division off and people tend to forget he could've pulled out of 189 with his knee - though he wouldn't have earned the money he did - at the end of the day, he signed to fight and, yeah, Mendes wasn't in camp and Edgar claimed Conor turned him down - same as Cerrone who mentioned he was turned down 3 times - but if he lost that fight, I'd have to think they would've still done the Aldo fight because of the build up and money spent, but he still fought.

Same as 196. In the lead up to 202, Florian on his podcast had mentioned that Conor had staph before the fight and was on antibiotics during part of his training camp. But he signed to fight Diaz, lost fair and square and didn't sit out and wait when a lot of fighters would have - though they're not in the same position Conor is financially. He said so himself he pointed to 189 and 196 as to why he should get the Diaz rematch immediately.

I agree in the name of sport that Conor shouldn't have got the title shot at 155. I don't know what everyone's personal take on that fight being made, but some folk were up in arms that Conor got the rematch with Diaz and pointed out it made no sense at the time and questioned how Conor could get a title shot after going 1-1 and winning the closest majority decision in MMA history. Anyway, I'm still trying to work out if Ferguson was injured when Alvarez got the title shot - it's the only reason I can think of.

New York has a huge Irish population, the ticket prices were ridiculous and would that event have sold out if it was Alvarez and Nurmagomedov - I'm not so sure. I don't think I've ever seen a Dagestan or Russian flag when he's fought and his looney manager points out how big of a draw he is by Embedded views. I'm not going to pretend I don't know why they let Conor fight Alvarez. He wasn't canvassing for it, it was Alvarez who called him out. It's situations like that why I think the UFC would be better off getting rid of PPV as it plays a huge factor in who gets a title shot.

Then you look at Conor's record of having 4 fights in 11 months compared to Nurmagomedov having 4 in 4 years. How Ferguson didn't get a title shot in that space of time only came up when his win streak got longer - I don't care if someone is a draw or not, but a lot of folk didn't give a shit about Ferguson at the time or there wasn't really a large out cry as to why he hadn't fought for the belt.

Look, I don't disagree he put the effort. he got to all the media and did the leg work, and the world tour, etc (well until he lost to Diaz)... but you forget that most of the Media tours were done exactly to hype HIM. The world tour he did with Aldo was all made to hep HIM, including making the last leg in Ireland.
And let us not forget how biased and how fucking unreal it must have been to Aldo, a guy used to deference and (at least) respect, to be cursed by fucking Conor fans (not MMA gfans, because I don;t think MMA fans would act like that) and instead of Dana demand fans to be (at least) civil, he laughed when fans called Aldo a pussy among other things... He allowed COnor to take COnor's belt and stopped Aldo from taking it back... that among a lot of other things that it was only allowed to Conor.
And yes, like I said, Conor did the work, and won his fights, and got the belt fair and square. But everyone knows that you will have to fight Conorm, the fans, the media and all UFC's hype machine (including biased judges) to win. Well, maybe nor anymore since he's been out so long.
Note: this is not new to COnorl. Jon Jones, GSP, SIlva... all mega star got preferential treatment, but obviously Conor is getting the most of all.

And last thing, you mention about number of fights, I call BS on that.
Every single up and coming fighter fights a lot until they get to the top.
That held true with almost everyone.
Heck, Conor made fun of Aldo for fighting twice a year on average as a champion who already cleaned up his division... and you eat it up...
Sorry, but if your high point is that Conor fought 4 times in one year, Aldo fought 6 times in one year (2005 - in March, May, July, September, October and November - losing only the last one)... so is Conor THAT Active? No, he was (maximum) on par with the rest.
And look now. As soon as he got the belt, he fought ... ZERO times in the past year and a quarter...
heck, I still remember COnor fans claiming he would defend both belts twice a year..... do you think have this illusion???

Disclaimer: Again, I want to reiterate how much I enjoy this back & forth. Apologies if sometimes it sounds more aggressive, but it is not, it is well, passionate along with long time discussing this with people in less civil terms

 

[Hoop]

That's the thing, you are mistaken.
Diaz trains with killers, guys who won tourneys and belts in competitions around the world... I defy you to compare both and see who has more name-value.

I never said they were sub-par training partners - I was giving an example of what Conor could have said in response to what Diaz said in the whole 'who do you train with?' back and forth and talking about his buddy, Avila, whooping Conor - which kind of played out well as Avila and Artem fought at 202. The whole 'who has the better sparring partners' is irrelevant, imo. I found it to be playground stuff, if I'm being honest.

If you remember the 1st press conference - Diaz looked uncomfortable up there. He had gone on social media to talk about how he would've thrown bottles when Conor was hazing dos Anjos and Cerrone and then he did the call out after the Johnson fight. He sat there and kept looking over at Diaz sr when someone asked him a question related to how the fight would play out and he was non committal answering that. And this is the chap who held a lot of bitterness towards Conor as he claimed that Conor was saying the same stuff Diaz was. I wasn't sitting there taking notes and scoring the press conference, but I thought Diaz would give it back more like he did in the 2nd press conference.

Like I said: with the money talk - I thought Conor hit the nail on the head with Diaz complaining of not getting the big money and being bitter about it. I referenced the comments Diaz made about CM Punk and he talked about Diaz saying hello to him after the 1st Conor fight and mentioned how funny it was that extra digits in your bank account make you more chilled. I didn't see that talk about money as being trash talk, I just thought Conor was telling some home truths.

hehehe I can see what you are saying, but there's more to that.
There are plenty of fighters who said pretty clearly that when there are no cameras around, COnor is a very nice guy. But anyone shows with a phone or a camera, and he starts with the screas and macho talk.
Heck, even Aldo said that. And he would have no reason to say Conor is a nice guy.

I heard Cerrone say that in the back before the 205 presser, Conor was standing away from the other fighters - what does he expect to happen - a camera to be switched on and Conor going crazy? Cerrone, I like watching him fight, but again, as much as a fan favourite that he is, he's not the greatest talker at press conferences and during interviews. He did an interview straight after that presser and talked about how he was going to say something about Conor but left it. What's he going to say aside from calling Conor a Leprechaun, English or McNugget?

I know what you're talking about with Aldo - they did that face off in the TUF gym and shook hands. I got the impression from Aldo from the start that Conor was just talk and trying to hype the fight up, when really he was going at Aldo, who took it too personally and then seemingly thought they were okay. Ask any Irish MMA writer who covered Conor early on in his career and having yelling matches with his opponents in the back before a fight or before weighing in. That's why I shook my head when Woodley made that comment.

Well, sorry to say, but yeah, seriously.

Yeah, of course he's going to fight for money - but the fighters go through immense stress physically and mentally (from listening to some of them in interviews) in training camps and fights. It's the same everywhere; fighters from the local circuit right to the top are doing it because they enjoy fighting. It's not exactly the most stable profession.

And look, I get you might think this is a slap in the face, but COnor himself always said this clearly in his interviews!
He said himself: he was not in for the glory and to stay for long. He was in to make money and leave before he has a chance to get an injury.
Face it: most his decisions were purely business decisions. Most to gain, least to lose.
And he doesn't care how it looks like.

No. I think the quote you're looking for is 'get in, get rich and get out' Conor has being speaking recently about coming back and saying he's in negotiations and more importantly that he feels from a damage taking point of view, he hasn't taken much. Two of Conor's team mates had to retire early because they suffered head trauma and Conor was cage side when Joao Carvalho was TKO'd and died later that night, so he's well aware first hand of the risks fighters take and how one punch can end it all.

It's no slap in the face to me - I'm just given my opinion on the subject matters. I've no idea how much he's worth but i don't think coming up in MMA he could have expected to make that much money in the Mayweather match and he said he was comfortable even before he made whatever he did for the boxing match.

There's nothing for him to gain and everything to lose.
That's great for him, but that's why (IMHO) it is terrible for MMA as a sport.
He is using the sport for his gain, and is uninterested in giving anything back (if he can). Like the belt.
He doesn't want to defend it, but why simply relinquish it? he will keep talking and stalling until they take it from him. But it has been years since he had them and never defended while perfectly healthy!
It is my turn now to say: It is beyond me how you can't see it this way!
Everything points at what I am saying. You got NOTHING to back you up on this.

How is he not giving anything back to the sport like the belt - I don't understand what you mean? Listen, the belts mean absolutely nothing to me. It has no impact on my life. If they stripped him, I couldn't care less. When I started watching MMA, I watched it for the fights and whoever became Champion was of no relevance to me. For me now my interest is seeing the next generation of Irish fighters coming through - not just from SBG - but all over the island. There is some very good talent coming through who are young, some more well rounded than others, but we play so many sports over here and the fighters don't get grants from the government so when Conor packs it in, the companies that are going out sponsoring guys from his gym may also stop the sponsoring of the fighters. But we'll have to wait and see.

Look, I don't disagree he put the effort. he got to all the media and did the leg work, and the world tour, etc (well until he lost to Diaz)... but you forget that most of the Media tours were done exactly to hype HIM.

The week of 189 when he was fighting Mendes, he had to fly to New York from Vegas for the Reebok launch, then he went to Connecticut to do a segment with Sonnen and then to LA to do a talk show - that's heavy stuff on the week of a fight to be flying around all those places. Diaz did all the talk shows after he beat Conor and in the lead up to the rematch and when he was asked if he enjoyed it, he talked about having to find gyms to get his training in and that he was tired from long days promoting. That's the push he wanted and he didn't seem to enjoy it. Yeah, he has to do those shows and almost do PR for events so folk will buy the PPVs. They still have to try and sell MMA to the public in the States and I think Conor is one of the best in that respect.

And last thing, you mention about number of fights, I call BS on that.
Every single up and coming fighter fights a lot until they get to the top.
That held true with almost everyone.
Heck, Conor made fun of Aldo for fighting twice a year on average as a champion who already cleaned up his division... and you eat it up...

Eat what up? He fought Aldo, Diaz x 2 and Alvarez in the space of 11 months. I'm not saying he did some inhumane feat, but he could have sat out and put his feet up and maybe fought twice a year - which is the average a Champion fights. Well, Aldo had on average fought once a year in the UFC and I think Conor was vocal about how many times he pulled out of fights - which a lot of other fighters in the division commented on. I don't recall him insulting Aldo for his lack of activity but more for the number of times he pulled out.

Disclaimer: Again, I want to reiterate how much I enjoy this back & forth. Apologies if sometimes it sounds more aggressive, but it is not, it is well, passionate along with long time discussing this with people in less civil terms

Nah, it's cool. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't know the ins and outs of a lot of what we're discussing - but I will say that you look at Conor in very black and white terms. Again; I roll my eyes when folk wonder out loud what he's really like. If you youtube his interviews, he explains a lot of things from his perspective. I'm not trying to judge any of the fighters, more so calling it how I see it.

 

[Sid Arthur]

I like this guy. I also like to slap bitches.