Dealing with violent Thugs/Meatheads in BJJ gyms

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Obviously the getting problematic violent situations with mentally ill people isn't good and should be avoided but some regular hoodlum going back with a gun after a challenge is less of a threat.

Everything is situational. Why risk it? Hindsight is 20/20. You don't know until you know. If you want to have your own private scuffle fine but why risk the chance of your students getting caught in the middle. It's unprofessional, and I would expect more from the man running the show. Because if something happens under his watch that's on him. Maybe people live in areas where they will not experience this sort of thing, but seeing escalation myself, I wouldn't risk it.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Everything is situational. Why risk it? Hindsight is 20/20. You don't know until you know. If you want to have your own private scuffle fine but why risk the chance of your students getting caught in the middle. It's unprofessional, and I would expect more from the man running the show. Because if something happens under his watch that's on him. Maybe people live in areas where they will not experience this sort of thing, but seeing escalation myself, I wouldn't risk it.

Dude seriously? The us is. A fuck up world, but if you are really concern about that, jesus stay home and don’t send your kids to school, I mean how many shooting has there beeen in the past 10 years?

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Bad press? What’s more bad press, an instructor chicken out of a gym challenge, or momy getting mad because the instructor actually use the skills he wants his kid to learn? No reason to call the cops either, unless it absolutely be a must, which most of the times in this case, is not.

All depends on who pays your bills. Sounds like you're the regular Cobra Kai of BJJ lol if you're legitimately an instructor. Are you the same guy who argued with me that you don't need carbs for high intensity activities? Jc.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Dude seriously? The us is. A fuck up world, but if you are really concern about that, jesus stay home and don’t send your kids to school, I mean how many shooting has there beeen in the past 10 years?

You can't be an instructor. lol and I can't still be having this conversation with you. Why am I trying to appeal to you on any level at this point, your BJJ experience has in your mind taught you the realities of real world violence. You speaking of being prepared for duels clearly illustrates this. lol

That is your stance and I respect it.

However, to assume your reality will be everyone else's reality is a bad assumption to make. Perhaps you live in a place where school yard bullies are the only concern. Am I vigilant at times, yeah. But it comes from at one point keeping guys who think as you do around me, and being caught in the middle of completely unnecessary situations.

I don't care too much what you recommend for me to do. I am always prepared. I'm good. But I use my head first before anything else.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

You can't be an instructor. lol and I can't still be having this conversation with you. Why am I trying to appeal to you on any level at this point, your BJJ experience has in your mind taught you the realities of real world violence. You speaking of being prepared for duels clearly illustrates this. lol

That is your stance and I respect it.

However, to assume your reality will be everyone else's reality is a bad assumption to make. Perhaps you live in a place where school yard bullies are the only concern. Am I vigilant at times, yeah. But it comes from at one point keeping guys who think as you do around me, and being caught in the middle of completely unnecessary situations.

I don't care too much what you recommend for me to do. I am always prepared. I'm good. But I use my head first before anything else.

You are always prepare? To
Do what? Prepare to what? In the history of humanity, despite all the shit that goes on in the world, humans have never ever been as civiliZed as we are now, ... unless you are living in Afganistán, your sounding quite like a paranoic lunny...

 

[BJJ_Rage]

All depends on who pays your bills. Sounds like you're the regular Cobra Kai of BJJ lol if you're legitimately an instructor. Are you the same guy who argued with me that you don't need carbs for high intensity activities? Jc.

Yes I am, I still fast and do quite well by the way, surprise I haven’t die..

 

[finalboss]

This ain't the white belt brigade homie...This is red belt brigade homie!!!

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

London is a third world toilet.

Edit: I was born there and used to live there.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

You are always prepare? To
Do what? Prepare to what? In the history of humanity, despite all the shit that goes on in the world, humans have never ever been as civiliZed as we are now, ... unless you are living in Afganistán, your sounding quite like a paranoic lunny...

I've lived there before.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Yes I am, I still fast and do quite well by the way, surprise I haven’t die..

Glad to hear that

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I've lived there before.

Si you still live in a war zone?

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Si you still live in a war zone?

I traded desert for urban terrain. Why are we still having this conversation again?

Are you looking for confirmation? lol

We don't agree on the issue, that is fine. lol

 

[NSchoke]

What do people expect the instructor to do, hide in the back, look down and away when the guy asks what he would do if he tried to punch him and mumble "nothing sir", or maybe just let him hit him?

Roger seems like most mellow guys there is in this sport, I'm sure this doesn't represent his program. The people closer to the situation seem to confirm.

Seems like a bad situation that could have been much worse if the right people weren't there. Id imagine if the guest had been allowed to get the upper hand, things would have turned out worse.

 

[Nik123]

What do people expect the instructor to do, hide in the back, look down and away when the guy asks what he would do if he tried to punch him and mumble "nothing sir", or maybe just let him hit him?

Roger seems like most mellow guys there is in this sport, I'm sure this doesn't represent his program. The people closer to the situation seem to confirm.

Seems like a bad situation that could have been much worse if the right people weren't there. Id imagine if the guest had been allowed to get the upper hand, things would have turned out worse.

Yes exactly. I don’t understand the people going ‘I would expect more of a bjj instructor blah blah’. I would love to see them react in his shoes. He’s a bjj instructor, not a psychologist or thug whisperer. Besides stopping the guy in his tracks there was not much else that could be done.

When the guy was surrounded outside while waiting for the cops to arrive, everyone was taking to him nicely trying to calm him down and get him to chill out.

When he started going berserk punching the windows I remember being thankful the right people were there to keep an eye on him.

Rogers place is about as chilled out and respectful a bjj academy as you get. This is a rare situation involving a mentally ill, massive individual with bad intentions - very difficult to handle without force.

 

[TheMood]

It sounds like it was a crazy and intense situation. Thankfully none of the students were hurt. I'm sure that was probably the foremost concern for the instructors in the moment. Perhaps there were better ways to handle the situation, perhaps there were not.

Based on a quick look at the guys Instagram, he does seem like he is a little off. Most of the workout themed pages I've seen don't have people lifting furniture as a form of exercise.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Gunman kills two women and injured five other people at a yoga studio in Tallahassee on Friday. He also took his own life.

He came in posing as a customer. He allegedly had a history of spreading videos displaying his feelings on everyone he felt had wronged him.

I will not make a conclusion based on this one incident, but this showcases the human condition and how things even uninvited can occur when dealing with the wrong people.

I doubt he was challenged at this yoga studio but he still went in there with a mindset unknown to those who were there for yoga.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/us/yoga-studio-shooting-florida.html

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

What do people expect the instructor to do, hide in the back, look down and away when the guy asks what he would do if he tried to punch him and mumble "nothing sir", or maybe just let him hit him?

Roger seems like most mellow guys there is in this sport, I'm sure this doesn't represent his program. The people closer to the situation seem to confirm.

Seems like a bad situation that could have been much worse if the right people weren't there. Id imagine if the guest had been allowed to get the upper hand, things would have turned out worse.

He could have shown him the curriculum of the gym, and invited him to practice drills with everyone else and participate in the class they were having.

He could have had one of his senior purple belts try to mentor the guy, and keep an eye on him during practice. Perhaps after going through the drilling and warm ups the testosterone level would have simmered down, and he would have been a bit too tired to go through with his original ambitions. He may have gained an understanding and respect he didn't have previously walking into the gym.

If he couldn't get with the environment after that then he could have just been asked to leave. If force was needed at that point then I would not have been a critic. However, from the account that I had he asked him what he would do "on the street". What street? Are we on concrete, this is a BJJ class.

When you entertain that "street" element you should be prepared for what comes with it.....the unknown. You don't know this guy, you don't know his history. If any of his students had a problem with it and couldn't understand a reasonable explanation well screw them. Are they going to pay to replace the things lost? Are they going to have to explain to families what happened? Are they going to go through the commercial property claims process with you? I would just evaluate the risk v reward.

I thought it was a poor decision personally for a number of reasons.

 

[NSchoke]

Gunman kills two women and injured five other people at a yoga studio in Tallahassee on Friday. He also took his own life.

He came in posing as a customer. He allegedly had a history of spreading videos displaying his feelings on everyone he felt had wronged him.

I will not make a conclusion based on this one incident, but this showcases the human condition and how things even uninvited can occur when dealing with the wrong people.

I doubt he was challenged at this yoga studio but he still went in there with a mindset unknown to those who were there for yoga.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/us/yoga-studio-shooting-florida.html

 

[NSchoke]

That shows me that some people are just violent and go into places with bad intentions. I didn't read your text, are you implying that these Yogi's antagonized/escalated the situation?

I had heard that some of the Yogi's tried to fight to stop him shooting, maybe not quickly enough, unfortunately. If this instructor had been there and acted immediately like it sounds like he did here, lives may have been saved, who knows. I do know this guy deserved to have his teeth taken out too, maybe it would have woke him up instead of letting him continue to build up steam/confidence to the point that he can take others lives.

 

[Nik123]

He could have shown him the curriculum of the gym, and invited him to practice drills with everyone else and participate in the class they were having.

He could have had one of his senior purple belts try to mentor the guy, and keep an eye on him during practice. Perhaps after going through the drilling and warm ups the testosterone level would have simmered down, and he would have been a bit too tired to go through with his original ambitions. He may have gained an understanding and respect he didn't have previously walking into the gym.

If he couldn't get with the environment after that then he could have just been asked to leave. If force was needed at that point then I would not have been a critic. However, from the account that I had he asked him what he would do "on the street". What street? Are we on concrete, this is a BJJ class.

When you entertain that "street" element you should be prepared for what comes with it.....the unknown. You don't know this guy, you don't know his history. If any of his students had a problem with it and couldn't understand a reasonable explanation well screw them. Are they going to pay to replace the things lost? Are they going to have to explain to families what happened? Are they going to go through the commercial property claims process with you? I would just evaluate the risk v reward.

I thought it was a poor decision personally for a number of reasons.

I think you just don’t understand the situation, and weren’t there so best to leave it at that.

If he had let him drill with other students with a purple belt keeping an eye on him as you suggest - there is a good chance students would have been seriously hurt. The guy had issues and came in looking for a fight. It’s very easy to say what someone should have done from the comfort of a keyboard on the internet- it’s very different making split second reactions when you and your students are at risk (after you have already been assaulted).

And he was asked to leave - that’s the whole point. He came back and attacked the instructor. How much more justification does someone need to act? Weird opinion if I’m honest