Did the Son of Sam really act alone? Or was he a member of a murderous Satanic cult?

Holy shit, now I’m fucking torn. But if it was a cult, why did they stop after Berkowitz got nailed?
 
I also found that the Process Church turned into a non-profit animal rights organization called Best Friends Animal Sanctuary, which seems to operate today because their website still works.



They've come a long way from sacrificing german shepherds, if we're to believe those kinds of stories.
 
British journalist and Anton LaVey Church of Satan representative, Gavin Baddeley, wrote this book -

https://www.amazon.com/Lucifer-Rising-Devil-Worship-RocknRoll/dp/0859655474

And in it I guess he refers to Maury Terry as, ""a sensationalist reporter with a nose for good scare stories." Basically saying to take what Terry says with a grain of salt.

My research is turning into a lot of he said/she said, and I think I'm back where I originally stood that even though the whole Satanism cult angle regarding Son of Sam is intriguing, I'm still finding it hard to believe it's true.

Like I said earlier, if you find this stuff interesting, then read up on Henry Lee Lucas and the Hand of Death stuff. Once again, I think it's baloney, but it's still an enthralling read.
 
116439.jpg

He can't keep getting away with it!
 
Holy shit, now I’m fucking torn. But if it was a cult, why did they stop after Berkowitz got nailed?

Well according to the PDF I linked to earlier:

David Berkowitz surrendered to Brooklyn police in Yonkers, New York, in August 1977, a move that this book suggests was prompted by his co-conspirators, in order to stop a Brooklyn police investigation from widening. Berkowitz himself indicates in various prison interviews published here, that he agreed to be arrested as a "patsy," under the threat of the murder of his still-living father. According to Terry's evidence, the decision "to terminate" the series of killings this way, followed a blunder during the shooting of the last victims, Stacey Moskowitz and Robert Violante in Brooklyn, on July 30, 1977: Berkowitz's car was ticketed during the shooting, in which he was functioning as a lookout for another "shooter." The ticket led police to his name and address. The scenario had to be "damage controlled."

So, according to this at least, it sounds like they felt the heat around the corner and decided to get out of the game.
 
Multiple persons involved would make sense imo.

But idk. One guy could have accomplished this.
 
Hey, @shadow_priest_x got a little treat for you. It seems I found a pdf of Maury Terry's Ultimate Evil book online.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwZL_QI2UVrbZWlqV2JKRExSSHc/edit

Damn, no shit. Good find! I'll have to check this out.

I also found that the Process Church turned into a non-profit animal rights organization called Best Friends Animal Sanctuary, which seems to operate today because their website still works.



Yeah, it mentioned that in this link:

http://crimefeed.com/2017/08/the-pr...an-cult-connect-son-of-sam-to-charles-manson/

Did you check this link out? Pretty interesting stuff.

The weird thing is that Best Friends operates right here in Utah. How did an obviously occultic religious organization from the 1970s end up as an animal shelter in Utah in the 2010s? That has to be a tale in itself.

British journalist and Anton LaVey Church of Satan representative, Gavin Baddeley, wrote this book -

https://www.amazon.com/Lucifer-Rising-Devil-Worship-RocknRoll/dp/0859655474

And in it I guess he refers to Maury Terry as, ""a sensationalist reporter with a nose for good scare stories." Basically saying to take what Terry says with a grain of salt.

My research is turning into a lot of he said/she said, and I think I'm back where I originally stood that even though the whole Satanism cult angle regarding Son of Sam is intriguing, I'm still finding it hard to believe it's true.

Like I said earlier, if you find this stuff interesting, then read up on Henry Lee Lucas and the Hand of Death stuff. Once again, I think it's baloney, but it's still an enthralling read.

While Gavid Baddeley may be totally right, it's also worth pointing out that, as a representative for the Church of Satan, he's going to be interested in diverting any negative attention toward Satanist groups in another direction. So his comments may very well just be damage control to protect his own group.

But one thing to keep in mind is that Maury Terry isn't the only journalist who has worked this case and come to the conclusion that Berkowitz did not act alone.

This is John Hockenberry:


John+Hockenberry+Future+Film+Panel+Stories+48iYRS-fs3yl.jpg



He has written for The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Washington Post, Wired and a number of other publications. He worked for NPR for 15 years and has reported on events from all over the world.

He also believes that Berkowitz did not act alone, and in fact, the 2004 Dateline episode on the subject was based on Hockenberry's work, not Terry's.
 
Like I said earlier, if you find this stuff interesting, then read up on Henry Lee Lucas and the Hand of Death stuff. Once again, I think it's baloney, but it's still an enthralling read.

Henry was a well-established liar.
 
Here's what, from what I can tell, there seems to be significant evidence to support:

John Carr and Michael Carr were in some way involved with a ritualistic, seemingly Satanic cult. The Carr brothers were friends with David Berkowitz, and Berkowitz has said that they were involved with the murders.

David Berkowitz signed some of the Son of Sam latters with this symbol:


leg_son_sam4.jpg



You'll notice the inverted cross. That symbol was later found drawn onto a phone book that was found at the residence of John Carr.

Here's a bit from the unsolved.com page about Berkowitz getting involved with the cult:



Six months after Berkowitz's arrest, John Carr was found dead. It was ruled a suicide, but some think he was murdered. I think that either way it's suspicious.

The note that I posted in the OP references both the "22 disciples of hell," which some speculate refers to the members of the cult, as well as "John Wheaties." It was later found out that John Carr's nickname was Wheaties.

I'll leave you with this final excerpt from the Unsolved page:



It seems to me that there is enough reason to at least be open to the possibility that there's more to the story than just David Berkowitz, the lone gunman.

I hope Carr was murdered. Anyone who sacrifices a dog, especially a German Shepherd, deserves to die. Preferably screaming in agony.

I don't even like God, if He exists at all, but Satanists are pathetic.

Ironically, there is at least one Neo-Nazi Satanist group which forbids it's members from sacrificing animals or children. Only adults who have, "self-selected themselves" are acceptable.
 
I don't even like God, if He exists at all, but Satanists are pathetic.

It's strange that your username references a Christian organization formed to protect Christian pilgrims when you are hostile toward Christianity.

Ironically, there is at least one Neo-Nazi Satanist group which forbids it's members from sacrificing animals or children. Only adults who have, "self-selected themselves" are acceptable.

A Neo-Nazi Satanist group that performs human sacrifice? The fuck?

<bball1>
 
It's strange that your username references a Christian organization formed to protect Christian pilgrims when you are hostile toward Christianity.



A Neo-Nazi Satanist group that performs human sacrifice? The fuck?

<bball1>

Do you even irony, bro?;) Also, the real Knights Templar were betrayed by the King of France and the Pope. They were falsely accused of Heresy, had confessions tortured out of them and were then executed. Usually by being burned alive at the stake. This was done so the King of France could seize the Templar Order's vast wealth.

The Order of the Nine Angles: because just being a Satanist or a Nazi isn't evil enough:rolleyes: The sect was formed in England in the late 60's. Sacrificing humans is encouraged but victims must, "self select". This means they must demonstrate "character flaws" that show they deserve death.

Sick fucks, obviously, but there is no evidence they have actually killed anyone.
 
I hope Carr was murdered. Anyone who sacrifices a dog, especially a German Shepherd, deserves to die. Preferably screaming in agony.

I don't even like God, if He exists at all, but Satanists are pathetic.

Ironically, there is at least one Neo-Nazi Satanist group which forbids it's members from sacrificing animals or children. Only adults who have, "self-selected themselves" are acceptable.

Both Carr bros died mysteriously. John was found at his girlfriends with a shotgun blast to the stomach slumped forward. Michael died less than 2 years later in a mysterious car crash.

leg_son_sam3.jpg

NY police sketch on the left, John Carr on the right.

@shadow_priest_x There's an Unsolved Mysteries episode on the Son of Sam that mentions the Carr's. It's worth a watch if you haven't seen it.
 
Id say alone and his randomness made it hard for police. He was a nut case
 
Yeah, it mentioned that in this link:

http://crimefeed.com/2017/08/the-pr...an-cult-connect-son-of-sam-to-charles-manson/

Did you check this link out? Pretty interesting stuff.

I'm not buying the crackpot Blue Oyster Cult conspiracy in that article.

While Gavid Baddeley may be totally right, it's also worth pointing out that, as a representative for the Church of Satan, he's going to be interested in diverting any negative attention toward Satanist groups in another direction. So his comments may very well just be damage control to protect his own group.

Yeah, I guess you have to take Baddeley's word for it as much as you would have to with Terry. I don't think I have a vested enough interest to read 500 pages of Terry's book, but from what I gathered from articles, it seems he mainly works off of circumstantial evidence. If you happen to read it and find something interesting in it, feel free to share.

But one thing to keep in mind is that Maury Terry isn't the only journalist who has worked this case and come to the conclusion that Berkowitz did not act alone.

This is John Hockenberry:


John+Hockenberry+Future+Film+Panel+Stories+48iYRS-fs3yl.jpg



He has written for The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Washington Post, Wired and a number of other publications. He worked for NPR for 15 years and has reported on events from all over the world.

He also believes that Berkowitz did not act alone, and in fact, the 2004 Dateline episode on the subject was based on Hockenberry's work, not Terry's.

Is there anything that Hockenberry brings new to the table about the multiple killer theory that Terry doesn't? Because it seems as though Hockenberry uses Terry as his main source.

----

I can't remember what the name of the tv documentary was that I watched a few months ago about Son of Sam. I think it was Investigation Discovery's Son of Sam: The Hunt For a Killer, but I can't be sure. I remember though from that the daughter of Sam Carr, Wheat Carr, worked at the Yonkers police dispatch, and when she got a call from the Brooklyn police regarding David Berkowitz's car being ticketed, she told them of how he threatened her family with notes and shot their dog Harvey. The documentary showed one of the notes, and the writing was identical to the police mocking notes, and he even referred to himself or referenced Satan in some manner. This is what really tipped police off as believing they found the guy.

Taken from this New York Times article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/06/nyregion/son-of-sam-killings-david-berkowitz.html
The registration for one car that had gotten a ticket listed the owner as a David Berkowitz along with a Yonkers address. So Mr. Justus called “to see if Yonkers P.D. had any idea of who this guy David Berkowitz was,” he said.

The dispatcher in Yonkers told him that she knew the man. And there was more. “We spent a good deal of time on the phone,” Mr. Justus recalled. “She started relating the story about their black Lab being shot by Berkowitz.” The dispatcher was Wheat Carr; her father, Sam Carr, was later said to have been the object of Mr. Berkowitz’s fixation on “Sam.” (According to “Ladies and Gentlemen, the Bronx Is Burning,” Jonathan Mahler’s history of the summer of 1977, Ms. Carr told Mr. Justus about threatening letters from Mr. Berkowitz, and Mr. Carr told the police that he had seen Mr. Berkowitz shoot the dog.)

Another NY Times article (Dated 1977 - hot damn!) https://www.nytimes.com/1977/09/21/...llife-sam-reallife-sam-says-notoriety-is.html
The Carrs said they had finally decided to talk with The Times—they asked no fee—to clear up what they considered a misrepresentation by some of their role in the case. As a result of the misrepresentation, Miss Carr said family members had received more than 100 threatening or obscene letters accusing them of being willing accomplices. There have been phone calls too, she said, “heavy breathers” and those who shout obscenities at 2 A.M.

The most recent and frightening communication was a Sept. 13 letter from Mr. Berkowitz. Arriving in an envelope bearing the name “D. Berkowitz” and the address of the headquarters of New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation in the upper left‐hand corner.

“I screamed at first,” said Miss Carr, bringing her fist down on the table at Dino's Ground Round restaurant here. “My mother didn't even want to open it, but I was angry that he [Mr. Berkowitz] is sitting up there in a prison ward at taxpayers’ expense and still harassing us. Something has to be done.”

The letter, which has been turned over to the police, referred to Mr. Carr as “Sam, my Lord,” and “Papa God,” and railed against the family's Labrador retriever, Harvey, named by Mr. Berkowitz as the messenger who told him to kill. “I got the messages through his [Mr. Carr's] dog,” Mr. Berkowitz said after his arrest.

The letter threatened to expose Mr. Carr as the force who made the “Son of Sam” kill six persons and wound seven as well as the force behind other, unrelated killings. That apparently was a reference to a shooting spree in Hackettstown, N.J., on Aug. 27 that resulted in the slaying of six persons and the gunman's own suicide.

“A lot of people seem to believe that we were connected with the killings—really connected,” said Miss Carr. “People don't seem to know that for months before he was arrested he had harassed us with letters and anonymous phone calls and we believe he was the one who threw a molotov cocktail at our house last Oct. 4. We had been nervous and frightened for months before and in the aftermath were still on edge and emotionally upset.”

The Carrs said that they had gotten support from many of their friends who were kind enough not to question them about the case and from the Yonkers Police Department, which maintained a guard at the house for three weeks after the threatening letters and calls began coming in.

But still there were acquaintances who “just couldn't leave it alone,” said Michael Carr.

“I went into a bar that I frequent shortly after the arrest,” said the younger Carr who is a freelance advertising stylist, “and they just couldn't resist introducing me as the ‘real Son of Sam.’ It was a bad joke.”

Miss Carr, growing angry as her brother recounted his problems, said that people had told her that they had heard that she dated Mr. Berkowitz, and asked her if it was true.

In spite of their insistance that they want to forget their ordeal, the Carrs conceded a certain “gnawing” about the case. Miss Carr said she had made copious notes on the letters and events of the preceding months, trying to make some sense of the whole thing.

“Why my father?” she asked rhetorically. “That's what we want to know. Why did he pick my father and my family. It's eating us up. It's not enough to say to ourselves that he [Mr. Berkowitz] is sick.”

It seems Berkowitz held some sort of grudge with the Carr family, and he harassed them and other neighbors before his arrest.

New York Post article - https://nypost.com/1999/06/28/killer-gets-a-ticket-to-prison-parking-summons-leads-to-berkowitz/
The Ford belonged to David Berkowitz, a 24-year-old Bronx postal worker who lived at 35 Pine St. in Yonkers.

The trail of evidence was building.

That April, Sam Carr, who lived in a house behind 35 Pine St., had gotten letters complaining about his black Labrador retriever, Harvey. The writer complained that the dog was tormenting him.

On April 27, when Harvey was shot in the thigh, Carr reported it to Yonkers cops.

That June, Jack and Nann Cassara of New Rochelle got a get-well card from a Sam Carr. The Cassaras were confused because no one in the family was sick and they didn’t know Sam Carr.

When they tracked down Carr, it turned out that the handwriting on the card matched that on the threatening letters he had received.

The Cassaras then remembered that they briefly had a tenant named David Berkowitz who hated dogs.

Meanwhile, Craig Glassman, an investigator for the Westchester County sheriff, had moved into 35 Pine St. and was getting threatening notes that mentioned “Satan” and “demons.”

On Aug. 6, a fire was set outside his door.

Yonkers cops concluded that the same person had written the notes to Glassman and Carr and the card to the Cassaras.

I know that Michael Carr later died in a car wreck and I have seen claims that there was something shady about it, but I've yet to find something that actually says why it is shady. Perhaps that can be found in Terry's book, but once again, I don't feel up to the task to read it. What's interesting though is that John Carr is not mentioned in this article, but that might be because he didn't actually live in New York, but rather North Dakota. I do find the police sketch that looks like John Carr to be interesting, but I'm not quite sure what to make of it yet. But if I were to entertain the conspiracy theory angle, I'd say the connection of Berkowitz singling out the Carr family can be found with John Carr. Perhaps they did come to meet and start dealing in nefarious business with each other, and the rest of the Carr family was none the wiser. Perhaps John wasn't close with the family, and maybe even hated his father, Sam.

One Last NY Times article (Dated 1979 - whew boy!) https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/19/...-new-theory-on-son-of-sam-elder-carr-was.html
The new interest in the man who terrorized the city for a year, until he was arrested outside his Yonkers apartment on Aug. 10, 1977, stems from recently published reports in the Gannett Westchester Papers linking Mr. Berkowitz with the late John Carr.

Mг. Carr, who was 31 years old when he died of gunshot wounds in Minot, N.D., in February 1978, was the son of Sam Carr, a Yonkers neighbor of Mr. Berkowitz. Mr. Berkowitz, who did not personally know Sam Carr, had referred to the elder Carr as his “master” who spoke to him through a dog and ordered him to kill.

Lieut. Terry Gardner, a deputy sheriff in Ward County, N.D., who is still investigating the death of John Carr, said in an interview: “There is no doubt in my mind, based on interviews I conducted and information I have obtained, that John Carr and Berkowitz knew each other well.”

He said that friends of John Carr reported that he had mentioned Mr. Berkowitz's name to them after he returned to Minot early in 1977, more than a half year before Mr. Berkowitz was captured and identified as the “Son of Sam.”

Lieutenant Gardner said he had no information that would link John Carr to any of the crimes to which Mr. Berkowitz confessed. Originally, Mr. Carr's death was regarded as a suicide, but the investigation is now looking into the possibility that he might have been murdered.

What to make of it all? I don't know. There of course is a lot to speculate about, but that's just it, speculation. Maybe there is strong enough evidence to show that Berkowitz and John Carr were in cahoots. Maybe they were part of some Satanist group. Maybe they decided to indicate Sam as their "master" as a way to ruin his reputation. Maybe.

Henry was a well-established liar.

This is true. According to Henry, he killed exactly 1 gillion people.
 
Great post @the muntjac. Genuine A+ shit. I appreciate your commitment to the conversation.

This is the first I've heard about Berkowitz harassing the Carr family, so that's interesting. I guess we have two lines of evidence that we have to try to reconcile: Berkowitz harassing the Carr family and Berkowitz's connection to the Carr brothers, particularly John Carr.

To again go back to Maury Terry, who has said that Carr was living in Minot but making frequent trips to New York during the time of the Son of Sam attacks, John Carr apparently had a nickname for David Berkowitz: "Berky." And multiple people in Minot have said that John had talked to them about his friend Berky from New York. So I'm not sure about Berkowitz's connection to the rest of the family, but it does seem like John and David were close associates. I just don't see how anything else could be the case outside of Maury Terry literally just making shit up out of whole cloth.

Regarding Michael Carr's death, I haven't seen much indicating that people found it suspicious outside of the fact that he died so soon after his brother. But John's death was definitely considered suspicious. As we've discussed already, his girlfriend thought he was murdered. Berkowitz himself has said he thinks John was murdered. But even if it was suicide, I would ask: "Why?" Why did he commit suicide? Was he just depressed or drug-addled? Or was he perhaps feeling guilt for his role in the murders? Or instead, was he perhaps feeling paranoid and feeling the noose tighten around his neck and decided to go out on his own terms instead of risking being arrested?

I think you're right that all we can do is speculate. But it does bring a new dimension to the case, a dimension that not a lot of people seem to be aware of or have considered.

It actually kind of reminds me of the Kennedy assassination: Did Oswald act alone or was it truly a conspiracy?
 
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