Difference between bareknuckle defense and glove defense

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by MadSquabbles500, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. MadSquabbles500

    MadSquabbles500 Gold Belt

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    I want to talk about difference between bareknuckle defense and boxing glove defense.

    I think the main difference is when wearing boxing glove, you can actually cover up/block using the hand. It is covered with padding, the the attackers hand is also padded. If you are bareknuckled, then taking a strike on the hand especially the back of the hand will hurt a lot. If you take a kick to the back of the hand bare, probably break it.

    In boxing and kickboxing, you often see fighters cover their faces and heads with the glove, knowing they can take a hit on the glove. There is the bareknuckle league now, and I really want to see their defense. I am thinking if they want to coverup, they will have to raise the arms further and use the forearms more, but lease their torso more exposed.

    Is my assumption correct?
     
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  2. Ilk

    Ilk Blue Belt

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    Your assumption is correct, however you barelly block with glove itself in spars. Sure it helps with the pain levels when blocking with outside of the hand but when I was doing karate in teen years you kind of condition the hands for these blocks. Sure you use the padding and etc sometimes and it helps, but mainly in boxing you defend by distance, try to deflect shots, catch them and etc.
     
  3. Odysseus

    Odysseus White Belt

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    You are correct. Forearm blocking not only absorbs more impact, but also covers more surface area of the head to prevent a hand sneaking through or around your guard. This is the same concept of fighting with boxing gloves vs MMA gloves- it’s surprising how shots you normally block with boxing gloves get through.
     
  4. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    you are correct.

    I can recall when i first started posting on sherdog, attempting to talk with people about this subject, but many were unable to grasp the concept that the larger boxing glove provides more protection, while the MMA glove, even when you properly block, leaves more openings. Its one of the reasons you see hands dominance in sports with the smaller gloves such as MMA, Lethwei, & Muay Xtreme. I would think that bareknuckle or not, all the blocks would be relatively the same more or less, just "tighter" and the margin for error much smaller. I the only thing I block with my hands is when you catch a straight punch like a jab, everything else is primarily a forearm block anyways.

    right here im taking quit a bit of the kick on the glove, but check my R elbow and see the direction its pointed, I have my arm in this shape < to catch the majority of it on the arm rather than hand. I think this is pretty standard blocking whether theres gloves on or not.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Fire of Youth

    Fire of Youth Green Belt

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    Also consider that smaller fists (without gloves) slip through a 'cover' defense easier than if you are wearing big gloves.
     
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  6. MadSquabbles500

    MadSquabbles500 Gold Belt

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    Actually I think some are misinterpreting me. I am not talking about the area of coverage, or gaps.

    I am talking about having a very good cushion on your whole hand that actually allows you to absorb a blow with the back of you hand or fist even. It allows to actually use it for covering up, which is what I see in boxing all the time. The fact that the attacker is also using a cushion to deliver the blow helps a lot too.

    Now imagine in the bareknuckles league, someone puts their fist against his face, and then someone full force punches the back of the fist where all the small bones and ligaments are with their bare knuckles. That is going to really hurt. If you dont believe me just hold out your fist with the back of it facing you, and punch it with the other hand.

    There is no way to do the boxing/kickboxing style coverups with elbows tucked into ribs, and glove on face, without having gloves. Without gloves, you can only use forearms and elbows, so you will have to raise your arms higher to cover up your face. If you have short arms like me, you ribs will be exposed.
     
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  7. aerius

    aerius Brown Belt

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    Everything changes in bare knuckles boxing. Punching someone in the head is a really good way to break your own hand, so unlike modern boxing you won't be throwing full power punches at the head all the time, you need to be a lot more picky with your head shots so that you don't land wrong and break your hand. In modern boxing you can combo spam your opponent with head punches which is why we see a lot of blocking in high guard with the gloves both in boxing and kickboxing, try the same combos without gloves and it's not going to take very long before you break your hand on the forehead or other hard part of the skull.

    Since you now have to pick your head shots instead of combo spamming them, the defence changes. You're going to be dealing mostly with individual strikes rather than combos, so rather than blocking them by your head you'll be using more of an active guard to pick them off as they come in. Which is why the boxing stance in the old days looked like this rather than what we have now.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    thats why you try to block with the arm.
     
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  9. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Gloves DRASTICALLY changed boxing technique. Mainly in the distances they allowed people to fight. Mid-range became far more accessible. Prior to that mid-range was just something you tried to move through as quick as possible, or just totally feinted in. Gloves allowed for a method of defense garnering a few more seconds a bit closer, which opened up a whole other world of possibilities. It also changed in-fighting for similar reasons.
     
  10. Hotora86

    Hotora86 by armbar

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    A picture speaks a thousand words so...

    [​IMG]

    Further reading (one of the many articles written on the subject):
    http://bunkaijutsu.com/2017/10/comparison-bare-knuckle-boxing-pugilism-traditional-martial-arts/
     
  11. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Note the distance of their heads vs. feet. This is one of the things that should still be taught, to get close with your feet and not your face. In those days if you both approached head first you were looked at as two morons who were GUARANTEED to get hit. I'm not sure why that's different now.
     
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  12. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    You can still block left hooks with only your hand. It’s not ideal. But let’s say your hand is covering your chin/cheek. You can absorb a shot to the temple while if it hits your hand it will take some steam off.

    In bare knuckle contest it’s not ideal for sure but let’s say you are both throwing left hooks the guys whose hand is down is surely going to lose that exchange
     
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  13. Azam

    Azam Purple Belt

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    It's weird that a lot of people that do kickboxing don't grasp how much protection a boxing glove provides in comparison to a smaller glove.

    I've been to kickboxing classes and seen guys block kicks with their gloves (i.e. using the padding) & even watched fights where a lot of pro fighters will do it also. If you watch knockdown karate you will always see guys blocking kicks with both hands. I was always taught in kyokushin to block head kicks with both hands when you're not wearing gloves because one hand is not enough. Without a big glove you still absorb part of the force of the kick if you only use one hand (even if it's a forearm block). I've been whacked enough times with kicks to the head to know one hand ain't enough unless you got a big cushy glove that offers some protection.

    Personally I'm not fond of using the forearms for blocking shots.

    Distance control, parrying, shifting weight & keeping head off centre - is what I opt for well before blocking with my forearms. I find that if you use your forearms you often leave the lower body open for punches/kicks.

    I mean something else no-one thinks about is hooks. I mean how viable are they when you have no protection on your hands. It's much safer to throw jabs/straights - proper placement of knuckles/wrists in hooks are much harder to do when there is no protection on your hand. There's a greater risk of damaging your hand. I mean throw hooks & straights on a heavy bag without protection and one is much more stable than the other.

    I don't think it's a coincidence that old school boxing and traditional karate look similar. I think that's what you get when there is no padding involved. You have to be much more careful with the placement of your shots and I'm guessing this probably means combination punching is a no-no and pot shotting & countering would take precedent.
     
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  14. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    I think the MMA glove gives just enough protection to the hands to still do the most damage without worrying about hand injury.

    Speaking of all of this, I wonder how common hand injuries are in lethwei
     
  15. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Hand breaks are one of the most common injuries in MMA. So common it's not news when it happens.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  16. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    I didnt know the injury was common, but I dont think guys are cautious of throwing their hands because the are worried of a hand injury during the fight. I would imagine it would be the same while fighting bareknuckle, yeah the risk for hand injury is higher, although during the fight, your still fighting so i doubt your gonna be too worried about your hand getting injured as much as you are about hitting him with your hand if you get what im trying to say, your still gonna throw regardless.
     
  17. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Concern of hand injuries is why glove sizes increased in boxing in the first place.
     
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  18. Woldog

    Woldog Boxer

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    Blocking? hahahaha I just let them tee of on my head, either their hands break and I give them a beating or I wake up from my Coma and get back into training 6 months later
     
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  19. William Huggins

    William Huggins Blue Belt

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    That's pretty much the reason why they started using gloves but how the game changed because of it...........all to protect a fighters hands and allow them to fight more often......if they only knew then what would happen if they introduced gloves....
     
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  20. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    That's exactly why Mas Oyama the founder of Kyokushin was against introducing gloves to Kyokushin tournaments, he thought it wasn't real enough, resulting now in a ruleset where you fight bare knuckle but it's not allowed to punch to the face.

    Whatever you do, if you want to protect fighters' hands or faces by not allowing bare knuckle punching to the head, you're creating a ruleset which has a flaw (be it with gloves or with no head punching).
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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