DJ IS FIGHTING ON THE SAME CARD AS TJ? pathetic.

[Fullmount Triangle]

"I lost respect for him as a warrior"

A warrior? Fuck you, pay me.

 

[Turtlejuice]

Your reply is not clear.

what are you saying here.

Have you changed your view that for fighters to fight in a new division they must prove themselves first? And if yes great. If not then what do you think of guys like Bisping, Machida and so many others moving divisions and not proving themselves first as that first fight is the proof. you either make weight or you do not.



again struggling to see any relevance here.

Guys beg for fights all the time. Guys see opportunities and want the fight and the UFC either offers it or not. Sonnen and Vitor and many others wanted Jones when there was an opportunity. GSP wanted Bisping. Frankie Edgar has asked for fights up and down weight classes.

there is nothing wrong in a fighter indicating the fight he wants in any division he can make weight in. And if the UFC wants to offer that fight in another division that is historically all it takes, beyond making the correct weight.

its not like Title Shots in the UFC only come via being earned in the traditional contender sense. They have ALWAYS made exceptions for Champ V Champ and other big marketing fights.

An unranked fighter making their debut in a lower division they've never fought at against another unranked fighter, is not the same as someone making their debut in a lower division they've never fought at for a championship fight. As it stands, fighting TJ will have little benefit for MM. Even less so if TJ doesnt make weight.

TJ is not a big name.

TJ has not earned a superfight on his terms. He's currently riding 0 defendes.

Neither Machida or Bisping fought for the title in their first fight at 185. They Had prove themselves before fighting for a title at 185. Dropping a weightclass is not just about making weight. What good is making weight if the fight is called off for medical reasons?

If everyone is so desperate for the fight to happen, then everyone should be ok with it happening at 135.

 

[Agnawedbone]

The UFC's total inability to put a good fight together because of their arrogance and cheapness? Dana's childish tantrum in response to TJ not taking a fight on short notice?

Yes, it's very much pathetic.

 

[Turtlejuice]

No you are just flat out wrong and that is why you won't offer an example despite you saying it happens all the time.

You have made the same mistake a few other naive people have and are clinging to it rather than admitting it. It is not common at all for a Champ with a contract to refuse a fight against an opponent making weight in his division in normal course. It is typically under circumstances such as short notice or asking the Champ to move outside his division that such exceptions are made.

You're the one making the mistake, it's clear as day yet for some reason you're blind to it.

He's not declining a fight against someone who makes weight in his weight class. He's declining a fight against someone who has never made weight in his weight class.

What is not common is trying to make a champion fight someone who has never proven they can make the weight.

 

[Turtlejuice]

happens all of the time, in bth directions.

Show me 3 times it happened in the last 5 years. Can't use TJ as any of the examples.

 

[Sjb1888]

No you are just flat out wrong and that is why you won't offer an example despite you saying it happens all the time.

You have made the same mistake a few other naive people have and are clinging to it rather than admitting it. It is not common at all for a Champ with a contract to refuse a fight against an opponent making weight in his division in normal course. It is typically under circumstances such as short notice or asking the Champ to move outside his division that such exceptions are made.

Can't help the helpless, you're either very naive or just being a dick who can't admits they are talking pish...?

 

[MikeMcMann]

An unranked fighter making their debut in a lower division they've never fought at against another unranked fighter, is not the same as someone making their debut in a lower division they've never fought at for a championship fight. As it stands, fighting TJ will have little benefit for MM. Even less so if TJ doesnt make weight.

TJ is not a big name.

TJ has not earned a superfight on his terms. He's currently riding 0 defendes.

Neither Machida or Bisping fought for the title in their first fight at 185. They Had prove themselves before fighting for a title at 185. Dropping a weightclass is not just about making weight. What good is making weight if the fight is called off for medical reasons?

If everyone is so desperate for the fight to happen, then everyone should be ok with it happening at 135.

You know you really need to get a job with the UFC if you are simply going to state arbitrary distinctions that do not exist.

The UFC has never required guys moving up or down to prove themselves before giving them their first fight in a new division, if that guy wanted to move. If the guy is a big enough name who is moving (Edgar, BJ, GSP, Couture, Conor, etc) they have always let them jump divisions and into big or title fights with no issue.

So you 'TurtleJuice' say 'well it should not be that way', and you are entitled to believe that, but that is all it is a sherdog poster who thinks things should be different. The FACT is you are wrong though with regards to what reality is. What YOU want is not required.

The only requirement TJ has to fight at the weight class below against any opponent is that the he make weight and that the UFC wants and offers the fight.

 

[MikeMcMann]

You're the one making the mistake, it's clear as day yet for some reason you're blind to it.

He's not declining a fight against someone who makes weight in his weight class. He's declining a fight against someone who has never made weight in his weight class.

What is not common is trying to make a champion fight someone who has never proven they can make the weight.

You are failing to make a point. You seem to be suggesting there needs to be some type of guarantee that he make weight.

Even fighters within a division miss weight. There is no guarantees. If a fighter signs on the line to fight in a class then he simply needs to be professional and make weigh.

We should not have fans pre-guessing a guy may not make weight and therefore that fight should not happen. If a fighter has a history of missing weight that is when the UFC should step in and force that fighter up to a new division or out.

 

[Turtlejuice]

You are failing to make a point. You seem to be suggesting there needs to be some type of guarantee that he make weight.

Even fighters within a division miss weight. There is no guarantees. If a fighter signs on the line to fight in a class then he simply needs to be professional and make weigh.

We should not have fans pre-guessing a guy may not make weight and therefore that fight should not happen. If a fighter has a history of missing weight that is when the UFC should step in and force that fighter up to a new division or out.

No you're failing to make a point. First of all, nobody has to prove anything to you or me. We're not the ones signing up for a fight. Fans have nothing to do with it, so whatever your opinion on the matter is, is irrevant.

What Bisping, Machida or whoever else did is irrelevant. They're not even remotely the same circumstance.

You keep saying no champ had ever turned down a fight with someone from his weigh class. Irrelevant, because that isn't what this situation is.

 

[Turtlejuice]

You know you really need to get a job with the UFC if you are simply going to state arbitrary distinctions that do not exist.

The UFC has never required guys moving up or down to prove themselves before giving them their first fight in a new division, if that guy wanted to move. If the guy is a big enough name who is moving (Edgar, BJ, GSP, Couture, Conor, etc) they have always let them jump divisions and into big or title fights with no issue.

So you 'TurtleJuice' say 'well it should not be that way', and you are entitled to believe that, but that is all it is a sherdog poster who thinks things should be different. The FACT is you are wrong though with regards to what reality is. What YOU want is not required.

The only requirement TJ has to fight at the weight class below against any opponent is that the he make weight and that the UFC wants and offers the fight.

Show me where Bisping and Machida dropped a weightclass for a title shot?

Show me another circumstance where a champion moved down for a title shot without demonstrating he can make the weight first.

The fact is, you are wrong. You're creating false narratives in attempt to cover up whatever the real agenda is.

Sorry to break it to you buddy. But while MM is refusing the fight on those grounds, it is a fact.

 

[TIMELESS TRUTH]

MM fans look terrible in this thread! How delightful!!

 

[MikeMcMann]

Show me where Bisping and Machida dropped a weightclass for a title shot?

Show me another circumstance where a champion moved down for a title shot without demonstrating he can make the weight first.

The fact is, you are wrong. You're creating false narratives in attempt to cover up whatever the real agenda is.

Sorry to break it to you buddy. But while MM is refusing the fight on those grounds, it is a fact.

Frankie Edgar lost to Benson Henderson and got an immediate title shot V Aldo at FW.

BJ and others have moved up. fact is A Champ moving divisions has NEVER had to prove himself first if the UFC wants the fight.

And who cares if Bisping and Machida and others were not fighting for Championships. The point is that NO FIGHTER HAS EVER HAD TO PROVE THEMSELVES FIRST BEFORE FIGHTING AT A LOWER WEIGHT CLASS. The fight at the lower weight class is the proving themselves.

you keep adding arbitrary distinctions that are not meaningful.

First you say a fighter should have to prove himself before getting a fight at a lower weight class. When I point out that is dumb and you are wrong you switch to 'well if they are getting a title fight they should'. I now give you examples like Edgar and BJ and you will probably come back with well Edgar had X defense of his belt first so a champ dropping needs X defenses and BJ moved up so that is different.

Look no one cares that you think you should be able to layer all sorts of qualifications on this instance that has never existed prior for others. Throughout the UFC and MMA history if a Champ or fighter wanted to move up or down and the UFC wanted to make a fight (title or not) no fighter has been REQUIRED to prove they could make the weight first. The fight was the PROVING.

 

[IamStryker]

No. Because that is not how it works in the UFC.

Many fighters from BJ Penn almost 15 years ago to, too many to count now have changed weight classes and got immediate title shots or huge money fights.

So reality does not support you.

I never said they didn't make those fights. They can make any weird fight they want. Those guys still aren't the real legitimate contenders.

What is the big difference? If they can make weight and fight at that weight why should it matter other than some arbitrary BS you might say?

You don't think a title fight is a big difference? A real flyweight who has made weight multiple times has proven that he will make weight. They have also shown they are a legitimate contender at that weight by defeating real flyweight competition at that weight.

Naw you just don't understand the point. If a guy ANY GUY has to prove himself at a weight class before anyone excepts a fight with him then no one starts at a new weight class as the first fight will never happen.

Again, a title fight is not a regular fight.

 

[ILLogic]

MM - can I get some financial guarentees because if he doesn't make weight it's not for a title and my pay will suffer?
UFC - no, no guarantees. We're just going to take TJ's word for it.

Isn’t this what happens regardless? The fighter who misses weight forfeits a percentage of their earnings, and cannot win the title.

So what additional guarantees are needed?

 

[Turtlejuice]

Frankie Edgar lost to Benson Henderson and got an immediate title shot V Aldo at FW.

BJ and others have moved up. fact is A Champ moving divisions has NEVER had to prove himself first if the UFC wants the fight.

And who cares if Bisping and Machida and others were not fighting for Championships. The point is that NO FIGHTER HAS EVER HAD TO PROVE THEMSELVES FIRST BEFORE FIGHTING AT A LOWER WEIGHT CLASS. The fight at the lower weight class is the proving themselves.

you keep adding arbitrary distinctions that are not meaningful.

First you say a fighter should have to prove himself before getting a fight at a lower weight class. When I point out that is dumb and you are wrong you switch to 'well if they are getting a title fight they should'. I now give you examples like Edgar and BJ and you will probably come back with well Edgar had X defense of his belt first so a champ dropping needs X defenses and BJ moved up so that is different.

Look no one cares that you think you should be able to layer all sorts of qualifications on this instance that has never existed prior for others. Throughout the UFC and MMA history if a Champ or fighter wanted to move up or down and the UFC wanted to make a fight (title or not) no fighter has been REQUIRED to prove they could make the weight first. The fight was the PROVING.

Edgar was an injury replacement and was scheduled to fight someone else in order to earn a shot.

Penn moved up.

It's never existed because the situation has never happened. This is the first time we've had a champ beg to move down to challenge a lower weight champion.

You keep trying to argue precedence. There isn't any.

You say one one hand that DJ shouldn't be able to turn down a fight against someone that fights at 125, then on the other hand say TJ shouldn't have to make 125. You're all over the place trying to create false justification to cover up whatever your real feelings on the matter are.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Would be such sweet Karma if Cejudo dropped out & they put TJ in as a replacement.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

It's real easy to judge all the reasons why DJ didn't fight TJ... Did DJ even say that was on the table? From all I've heard it was TJ flapping his gums, I think to drum up some drama and create a buzz, in order for him to not fight Cody again, especially with him saying Cody didn't deserve another shot, it was the UFC that wanted the fight.
I'd be careful of judging somebody you don't know in the manner you're doing. Why does DJ have to do anything other than what he wants to at this point in defending his belt 10 times? It's his legacy, not yours or the UFC's... and no, I'm not a fan of his either.

Yes, the TJ/DJ fight was definitely on the table. Dana White was very vocal about DJ refusing it in order to fight Borg instead. The TJ fight has been held up for him ever since then as a legit possibility. Dana even made fun of DJ for all the complaining he's doing about money when he's getting a piece of the PPV buys & then turning down a fight that would actually gain him some interest to make some real money.

 

[CUAPO]

"GOAT"

 

[Lilly Hannah]

Would be such sweet Karma if Cejudo dropped out & they put TJ in as a replacement.

The word Karma is becoming a cliche on this site. Then again, most posters here would have zero to say without using cliches.

 

[regmma123]

A champion should dominate their respective class before there’s talk of them challenging for a different weight class. That’s how it’s always been