do any of you use the philly shell defense??

[Thatactionbrah]

Only if they have a very advanced ability to learn through reverse engineering and can extrapolate the systems answers for a fight 's "questions."

Thank you. Your response is appreciated

I've been watching some of the sparring sessions of your fighters like Daijon and Cyclone Mike and trying to see what I can learn from their videos too.

 

[Sinister]

I had the pleasure of training in a Gym where both Roger and Floyd Sr. were training their fighters when I got there. And then when I managed Tocco's Floyd Sr. was there as well, he was very cool about answering questions about it and giving a free lesson to my fighters here and there so I could see how he did things. He actually likes talking shop more than people think. You might like this:



(Bonus: There's a pretty funny hater who trolls interviews of me on that channel.)

 

[shincheckin]

I had the pleasure of training in a Gym where both Roger and Floyd Sr. were training their fighters when I got there. And then when I managed Tocco's Floyd Sr. was there as well, he was very cool about answering questions about it and giving a free lesson to my fighters here and there so I could see how he did things. He actually likes talking shop more than people think. You might like this:



(Bonus: There's a pretty funny hater who trolls interviews of me on that channel.)

that was pretty interesting, never heard it called the crouching crab before.

 

[Sinister]

It's REALLY tough to find any moving footage where Jeffries does anything like the Crab as we know it, likely for two reasons: 1) Ryan didn't want him to. Tommy Ryan was involved in some pretty heated trainer wars in his day. I could see him encouraging Jeffries to move around for press in a way that didn't display the nuances of his style. and 2) Filming fights was JUST starting to become a thing. But you can kind of see it in this video, and the still from the video:



This one is very clear but it's only one round and it's against Fitzsimmons, who was a brilliant counter-puncher, so there's a shitload of feinting. But remove the hand and foot pumping, tuck Jeff's lead arm more, and the similarities are obvious. Just at some point someone decided not to move around so much with it:

 

[Frode Falch]

What is that kung fu like sash thing Jeffries was wearing in the photo?

 

[shincheckin]

It's REALLY tough to find any moving footage where Jeffries does anything like the Crab as we know it, likely for two reasons: 1) Ryan didn't want him to. Tommy Ryan was involved in some pretty heated trainer wars in his day. I could see him encouraging Jeffries to move around for press in a way that didn't display the nuances of his style. and 2) Filming fights was JUST starting to become a thing. But you can kind of see it in this video, and the still from the video:



This one is very clear but it's only one round and it's against Fitzsimmons, who was a brilliant counter-puncher, so there's a shitload of feinting. But remove the hand and foot pumping, tuck Jeff's lead arm more, and the similarities are obvious. Just at some point someone decided not to move around so much with it:

that was pretty cool.

I am going to have to start picking your brain more often regarding boxing, boxing history, boxing technique etc.

One thing that really stood out to me in that clip was the hand movement. You dont see too many guys move like that now a days.

My boxing coach has talked with me about it before, its constant movement, so to be more tricky I guess and to get your opponent to react off your movement. He told me to do things like throw very short tiny combinations, so lets say I make a very small subtle movement of a left hook, this can get your opponent to bite on that movement. Easier said then done of course.

Whats your take on it?

 

[Sinister]

What is that kung fu like sash thing Jeffries was wearing in the photo?

They wore sashes and thongs back in the day. When Boxing had more pizzazz, well, not more than Floyd's chinchilla trunks. Hmm, he should have worn a chinchilla thong.

 

[Sinister]

that was pretty cool.

I am going to have to start picking your brain more often regarding boxing, boxing history, boxing technique etc.

One thing that really stood out to me in that clip was the hand movement. You dont see too many guys move like that now a days.

My boxing coach has talked with me about it before, its constant movement, so to be more tricky I guess and to get your opponent to react off your movement. He told me to do things like throw very short tiny combinations, so lets say I make a very small subtle movement of a left hook, this can get your opponent to bite on that movement. Easier said then done of course.

Whats your take on it?

Funnily enough the Cubans and Russians still tend to do stuff like this. Both Rigondeaux and Golovikin have a habit of winding their lead hands before they throw something hard. Floyd also loves to reach out and very gently touch or brush you with his lead hand, just a basic gauge of distance. But he does it so subtly and knows that most opponents are just trying to figure out how the f*ck to even hit him to bother with it, then they get hit with a stinging shot. Dadi and I refer to that as the "pet, pet, SLAP"...like you pet a cat or dog gently to get it to settle down, then slap the shit out of it.

 

[shincheckin]

They wore sashes and thongs back in the day. When Boxing had more pizzazz, well, not more than Floyd's chinchilla trunks. Hmm, he should have worn a chinchilla thong.

<Lmaoo>

AB got Pizazz

all jokes aside, i like the way he fights, his style, and his mayweather type antics. Dude is hilarious. His last fight........"as you can see im clean as a whistle, he fucked up, probably gotta spend the night in the hospital" <45>

 

[zapataxiv]

Funnily enough the Cubans and Russians still tend to do stuff like this. Both Rigondeaux and Golovikin have a habit of winding their lead hands before they throw something hard. Floyd also loves to reach out and very gently touch or brush you with his lead hand, just a basic gauge of distance. But he does it so subtly and knows that most opponents are just trying to figure out how the f*ck to even hit him to bother with it, then they get hit with a stinging shot. Dadi and I refer to that as the "pet, pet, SLAP"...like you pet a cat or dog gently to get it to settle down, then slap the shit out of it.

Interesting stuff.
This reminds of something you have talked about on here before. That is the conept of using your hands like knives or picturing you are in a knife fight when positioning your hands.
"Where do you want your hand if it is holding a knife down by your side, up by your face, or pointing at the opponent?" (something along those lines that thread is years old)
I found that very interesting because i think that along with most of us we have been brought up the idea with wanting our fists to be as much like bricks as possiblea big bludgeoner instead of a knife or sword piercing.

the hand fighting, tapping and moving of the hands just seems to go along more with what would be stereotypically associated with knife fighting.

 

[Sinister]

Broner would be brilliant if he went back to what brought him to the dance in the first place. Instead of always trying to do a Floyd impersonation...and a bad one.

Interesting stuff.
This reminds of something you have talked about on here before. That is the conept of using your hands like knives or picturing you are in a knife fight when positioning your hands.
"Where do you want your hand if it is holding a knife down by your side, up by your face, or pointing at the opponent?" (something along those lines that thread is years old)
I found that very interesting because i think that along with most of us we have been brought up the idea with wanting our fists to be as much like bricks as possiblea big bludgeoner instead of a knife or sword piercing.

the hand fighting, tapping and moving of the hands just seems to go along more with what would be stereotypically associated with knife fighting.

Yes. But also I saw that one video of the Master fencing instructor (guy trained a handful of Olympic medalists) and he said feinting and whatnot is the hallmark of a novice. Which I found unusual. But then he said: "Novices are obsessed with trickery, deception, trying to get you to think they're going to do something or not. A Master fencer just ignores all that, either they're going to stab you or they're not."

 

[Frode Falch]

They wore sashes and thongs back in the day. When Boxing had more pizzazz, well, not more than Floyd's chinchilla trunks. Hmm, he should have worn a chinchilla thong.

 

[Thatactionbrah]

@Sinister , thanks for the video man. I bookmarked it.

You always dish out legit knowledge in your posts.

 

[zapataxiv]

Yes. But also I saw that one video of the Master fencing instructor (guy trained a handful of Olympic medalists) and he said feinting and whatnot is the hallmark of a novice. Which I found unusual. But then he said: "Novices are obsessed with trickery, deception, trying to get you to think they're going to do something or not. A Master fencer just ignores all that, either they're going to stab you or they're not."

i am bewildered by this
is the trainer being a bit facetious or is it like the old samurai movie tropes where the masters circle each other and then slash... I wish i had more experience with fencing to know..

 

[Uchi Mata]

I really love it, though I don't get to use it much since most of my sparring is MT and it really doesn't work at all when people can kick your legs (and head). Personally I prefer James Toney's way of using it, fighting more on the inside and countering more often than Floyd. But it's really fun to play with, and many guys just have no idea what to do against it.

 

[Sinister]

i am bewildered by this
is the trainer being a bit facetious or is it like the old samurai movie tropes where the masters circle each other and then slash... I wish i had more experience with fencing to know..

The latter.

 

[ctrlaltdelete]

My coach tried showing me how to use it and I don't feel comfortable with it in sparring yet. I have the jab down - but I'm having problems timing the right hand when it comes at me.

 

[eternaldarkness]

My coach tried showing me how to use it and I don't feel comfortable with it in sparring yet. I have the jab down - but I'm having problems timing the right hand when it comes at me.

it can help if you are off the centre line. it makes rolling under the right a lot easier. philly shell is a guard that really relies on good body posture, if you are to upright or your weight is too far forward it doesn't work very well.

 

[Ilk]

My only experience with this style of defence is with some guy who randomly joined our boxing class (we are friends only on privates, but we were okay with it) and he used it. It was funny as his shoulder was not blocking anything and my right was always touching him and if I did jab, hook the hook always landed.

 

[thugpoet]

@Sinister, do you still feel like the Philly Shell is something boxers can learn via repeated usage in practice/sparring without a coach who specializes in it?

My boxing coach showed me the shoulder roll and the shell a couple of weeks ago and I used it in sparring to great success against someone that had more experience than me.

I've read all the threads on here and have been implementing the tips as well as watching and analyzing Briscoe's highlights and Bentons too.

A fight has a sequence of questions that your system or style needs to answer. In order to get the Mayweather answers you most will need a Mayweather. Roger, Floyd Sr and Jeff share a style but do offer some differences in terms of how to react in certain situations.

It is possible to develop your own answers to questions presented in sparring. It Takes time, analysis, and patience because you are essentially creating your own style.

For example I was taught a up and under style of boxing so when I tried the crab/shell I always ended up square rolling under shots, not a bad thing just not the Mayweather system.