Do people honestly consider Jones the GOAT or are they just trolling?

[ermac88]

Is that really what you thought I meant?

I meant I'm tired of people saying "pre-USADA means they were on steroids".

It doesn't mean that. You cannot reasonably infer that. You can assume, but it is unwise to couch that assumption as fact.

What we do know is that Anderson and Jones tested positive. Multiple times. They're cheaters. There's no need to assume with them.

The very second GSP tests positive, you can say he used steroids.

"I meant I'm tired of people saying "pre-USADA means they were on steroids".

Undertood, thats reasonable.

I wasnt suggesting that GSP or anyone was on roids pre-USADA (though I do believe to perform at the level these guys do, they all are, in my personal unsubstantiated opinion)

I meant, its not a fair barometer to set if USADA testing is so mjuch more stringent. GSP's run was prior to USADAs current standard, as was Jones and Anderson's previously

If we are to say getting caught by USADA is a disqualifier for achievement, then we either have to dismiss all pre-USADA athletes or accept that pre-USADA was a different qualifier (which Jones and Silvas run primarily occurred under)

 

[ermac88]

Never beat anyone, blah blah blah. Who beat Jones?

Alright, so boxing is his weakness, however, his wrestling, versatility, fight IQ, elbows, GnP--what you got to say about that? He is very adept at minimizing his weakness and imposing his game.
If you want to discredit Jones as some unskilled, full-of-holes nobody--by all means, you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how silly it is. However, I question your credibility when you say Jones is the male version of Ronda.

Striking =/= boxing. Jones' striking is quite alright, just ask Shogun, who tapped to strikes.

Its hard to not take the bait, but dude clearly isn't here to engage in a rational discussion with you.

 

[Loiosh]

"I meant I'm tired of people saying "pre-USADA means they were on steroids".

Undertood, thats reasonable.

I wasnt suggesting that GSP or anyone was on roids pre-USADA (though I do believe to perform at the level these guys do, they all are, in my personal unsubstantiated opinion)

I meant, its not a fair barometer to set if USADA testing is so mjuch more stringent. GSP's run was prior to USADAs current standard, as was Jones and Anderson's previously

If we are to say getting caught by USADA is a disqualifier for achievement, then we either have to dismiss all pre-USADA athletes or accept that pre-USADA was a different qualifier (which Jones and Silvas run primarily occurred under)

A failed test is proof a fighter cheated. I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss fighters who weren't tested under USADA, as it's a young sport and that would eliminate most of it's history.

It's worth mentioning GSP won the MW belt under USADA, even if it was against Bisping.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

There are multiple fighters with similar accomplishments who haven’t dinged for cheating.

Pretty simple stuff.

 

[ermac88]

A failed test is proof a fighter cheated. I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss fighters who weren't tested under USADA, as it's a young sport and that would eliminate most of it's history.

It's worth mentioning GSP won the MW belt under USADA, even if it was against Bisping.

so in your opinion, essentially all of the 20+ UFC history is deleted, strangely interesting...

Yep, GSP beat the 40yo MW champ. Post USADA, thats his only achievement.

 

[ermac88]

There are multiple fighters with similar accomplishments who haven’t dinged for cheating.

Pretty simple stuff.

POST - USADA?

Who?

 

[Loiosh]

so in your opinion, essentially all of the 20+ UFC history is deleted, strangely interesting...

Pretty sure that's the exact opposite of what I said.

Yep, GSP beat the 40yo MW champ. Post USADA, thats his only achievement.

Still a pretty good win for a welterweight who had been retired for four years.

 

[Just Creed]

Yet Jones himself is too afraid to even try.

What's insanely pathetic about that is that Jones wouldn't even be "moving up" to go fight at HW.

HW would just be Jones going to his natural weight class. Jones loves having his size advantages too much and refuses to ever fight without them. Thats why Jones was never in any real GOAT talks, before popping twice

 

[subhuman trash]

He never lost breh.

 

[ermac88]

Pretty sure that's the exact opposite of what I said.




Still a pretty good win for a welterweight who had been retired for four years.

My bad, it is the opposite of what you've typed.
That said, you can't delete Silva and Jone's accolades pre-usada.

 

[HydralisK]

This...

View attachment 323817

If USADA didn't exist Jon would be a consideration for sure. Problem is they do exist...

Oh my lawd, I always knew GSP sold his soul to the devil.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

POST - USADA?

Who?

You don't need to move the goalposts. MMA didn't start with USADA.

There have been markers for "cheating" since (almost) the beginning of big-time MMA.

Fedor has never dinged for cheating.
GSP has never dinged for cheating.
Mighty Mouse has never dinged for cheating.
Aldo has never dinged for cheating (albeit, with some questionable things along the way).

 

[ermac88]

You don't need to move the goalposts. MMA didn't start with USADA.

There have been markers for "cheating" since (almost) the beginning of big-time MMA.

Fedor has never dinged for cheating.
GSP has never dinged for cheating.
Mighty Mouse has never dinged for cheating.
Aldo has never dinged for cheating (albeit, with some questionable things along the way).

Okay.
Prior to USADA neither did Jones.

 

[Candy Routure]

Jones is a fantastic fighter, and a terrible person. Does it need to be discussed further than that?

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

I think most talented is the better way of putting it. It's hard to call him the best when he's been caught cheating several times. He had all of the talent in the world and didn't need to cheat but still did and that's the sad part.

It's funny though because every other sport in the world shames their cheaters, no longer talks about them in the discussion of GOAT, takes away their titles and removes them from hall of fames. Yet MMA fans, they can't let go for some reason and guys like Anderson Silva are still in the discussion despite cheating.

 

[ermac88]

I think most talented is the better way of putting it. It's hard to call him the best when he's been caught cheating several times. He had all of the talent in the world and didn't need to cheat but still did and that's the sad part.

It's funny though because every other sport in the world shames their cheaters, no longer talks about them in the discussion of GOAT, takes away their titles and removes them from hall of fames. Yet MMA fans, they can't let go for some reason and guys like Anderson Silva are still in the discussion despite cheating.

Well in truth Silva got busted after his GOAT era, in his declining days.

I think its also understood, most if not all fighters are on some kimd of gear

 

[315MMAFighter]

He is the REAL LHW CHAMP OF TEH WORLD. & to all the haters