Do the women share some responsibility?

Amerikuracana said:
They aren't as bad as the girls that pretend to be comatose to live out their football player fantasies without being called a whore for doing it. The fake coma rapes are bad. Guys need to be smart enough not to play with the idiots, of course.

If refusal of the advance is reasonable, they should do it more often. But the culture needs to change more. They think anything goes in their world and that attitude seems to be the only way to make it. It's trash. Far left, souless, fake good guy badge, trash culture. That's more of the problem.
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{<huh}
 
Jackie Blue said:
I still don't get it. But OK then. Some things you just have to let go, I guess. :)
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For example, I had one 16 year old girl at a party i had drink 2 beers and pretend to be passed out with her legs spread. She was smiling and flopping around. There were some older guys there that were scummy she shouldn't have been playing that game around. I made sure nobody banged her, because it was my house.

ANOTHER one, a few months later, yelled "f*ck me til my head explodes" for 30 minutes, then "passed out" upstairs without consuming anymore alcohol. That time another guy knighted for her and made sure none of the guys she screamed that at nailed her.

I saw that b.s. at other people's places a couple other times as well.

If you are 100% unresponsive and unable to move or speak, in a comatose state, that's called "acute alcohol poisoning" and the person is very near death. This is accompanied by vomiting upon movement, seizures, and other major medical complications. THERE IS NO COMA WHERE THE PERSON WAKES UP AFTER SEX AND SAYS "I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING." That could be large amounts of ghb, but that's a different story.

I have had alcohol poisoning before. Bad. Never ended up in a complete unresponsive coma.

These girls in comas that never even threw up are full of fkn shit... The only reason they get away with it is guys c*ck block instinct.
 
In situations like you are describing, no one would call that rape or assault. But the producers who are fucking people as hiring conditions need to be fired, since thats clearly not how things should work.

Also, keep in mind that several of Harvey's victims did not sleep with him. One of them for example had their tit grabbed and they immediately went to the police and then wore a wire to get him to admit it.
 
franklinstower said:
That is exactly what I am saying. I think some people are so politicized that reading comprehension goes out the window.
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You're catching some shit because the thread reads like an attempt to construct an acceptable position for victim blaming. It's not a comprehension problem, but a problem where your words, rightly or wrongly, are not taken at face value.

If you want to be utilitarian about it, this Weinstein case is a really good example of how blaming the predator loudly and openly is what gets shit done. Actresses who rebuffed him and succeeded did so despite that, not because of it. It took a whole lot of abuse before any good came of people complaining about him- it took a public shaming to fix this.

One thing I'd look at is that Hollywood doesn't have ethics to match corporate America (jesus that sounds funny). What I mean is that out in the normal work environment, there are laws and policies about hiring, relationships, behavior, etc. In movies, the producer can hire and fire almost anybody for any reason, especially up-and-comers. That environment is mostly neutral toward unethical behavior, and there are individual rewards (sometimes great rewards) for doing nothing about it, or for being complicit. The arts understandably don't want an environment like a 9-5 job because it murders creativity, and it's exactly the sort of life that artists don't want. They're going to have to correct for the tendency toward corruption without damaging the artistic environment. The problem will keep arising, but incidents like this, where producers and directors are put on notice, will help the next time a big player takes things too far.
 
Amerikuracana said:
For example, I had one 16 year old girl at a party i had drink 2 beers and pretend to be passed out with her legs spread. She was smiling and flopping around. There were some older guys there that were scummy she shouldn't have been playing that game around. I made sure nobody banged her, because it was my house.

ANOTHER one, a few months later, yelled "f*ck me til my head explodes" for 30 minutes, then "passed out" upstairs without consuming anymore alcohol. That time another guy knighted for her and made sure none of the guys she screamed that at nailed her.

I saw that b.s. at other people's places a couple other times as well.

If you are 100% unresponsive and unable to move or speak, in a comatose state, that's called "acute alcohol poisoning" and the person is very near death. This is accompanied by vomiting upon movement, seizures, and other major medical complications. THERE IS NO COMA WHERE THE PERSON WAKES UP AFTER SEX AND SAYS "I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING." That could be large amounts of ghb, but that's a different story.

I have had alcohol poisoning before. Bad. Never ended up in a complete unresponsive coma.

These girls in comas that never even threw up are full of fkn shit... The only reason they get away with it is guys c*ck block instinct.
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Thanks for the clarification. Much needed because I don't think the average cat is familiar with the concept of "smirk comas" and such. ;)
 
We all know of the victims Harvey harassed. But there were probably way more that did things sexually for a job with him. Those women are probably broken down into those that did so willingly and those that didn't know how to handle the situation. I find no fault in either because Harry is at fault. But the former contributes to his behavior being reinforced.
 
Amerikuracana said:
For example, I had one 16 year old girl at a party i had drink 2 beers and pretend to be passed out with her legs spread. She was smiling and flopping around. There were some older guys there that were scummy she shouldn't have been playing that game around. I made sure nobody banged her, because it was my house.

ANOTHER one, a few months later, yelled "f*ck me til my head explodes" for 30 minutes, then "passed out" upstairs without consuming anymore alcohol. That time another guy knighted for her and made sure none of the guys she screamed that at nailed her.

I saw that b.s. at other people's places a couple other times as well.

If you are 100% unresponsive and unable to move or speak, in a comatose state, that's called "acute alcohol poisoning" and the person is very near death. This is accompanied by vomiting upon movement, seizures, and other major medical complications. THERE IS NO COMA WHERE THE PERSON WAKES UP AFTER SEX AND SAYS "I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING." That could be large amounts of ghb, but that's a different story.

I have had alcohol poisoning before. Bad. Never ended up in a complete unresponsive coma.

These girls in comas that never even threw up are full of fkn shit... The only reason they get away with it is guys c*ck block instinct.
Click to expand...
I don't fully disagree with this but I will throw out there that women react much differently to alcohol than men. They are physiologically more susceptible to it by volume. That is, even when you take a person's size into account, in general, a woman will be more drunk off a given amount of alcohol than a man and may behave quite differently when extremely intoxicated.
 
Rebound59 said:
I was with you on this post until the last paragraph. I disagree. There are a lot of barriers to overcome, not the least of which is personal humiliation. You say, "We don't have some culture in place..." but the experiences women report who do proceed with a complaint contradict you.
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Women experience a lot of things that aren't necessarily factual.

I think the real issue are the men who are sexually molested, in environments like prison etc. The "shame game" is still very real when it comes to men that get emasculated. I reckon that in America more men are sexually molested than women, unless we begin to categorize stuff like casual flirting etc. as sexual harrassment, which is where the modern feminist movement wishes to lower the standard.

I think we've long gotten over the hurdle of culturally shaming women for being sexually assaulted. It's not really a problem. We can try to create it into a problem, but it will be a very artificial creation.
 
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Amerikuracana said:
They aren't as bad as the girls that pretend to be comatose to live out their football player fantasies without being called a whore for doing it. The fake coma rapes are bad. Guys need to be smart enough not to play with the idiots, of course.

If refusal of the advance is reasonable, they should do it more often. But the culture needs to change more. They think anything goes in their world and that attitude seems to be the only way to make it. It's trash. Far left, souless, fake good guy badge, trash culture. That's more of the problem.
Click to expand...
I dont....what?
 
It's a complex subject. If a woman trades sexual favors for career advancement then she certainly shares some responsibility the next time that offer is presented, assuming that her trade was known.

But that woman doesn't have any responsibility for what happens with another woman.
 
TheGreatA said:
Women experience a lot of things that aren't necessarily factual.

I think the real issue are the men who are sexually molested, in environments like prison etc. I think we've long gotten over the hurdle of culturally shaming women for being sexually assaulted.
Click to expand...
I think you're wrong. It's very common to impugn the character of women bringing up sexual harassment complaints.

Prosecuting sexual assault: 'Raped all over again'
The cross-examination of Frances Andrade, who was in the witness box over indecent assault allegations against her former music teacher, Michael Brewer, makes very uncomfortable reading when you know that a few days after her court appearance she killed herself.

Three days before her death, Andrade texted a friend to say that she felt as if she had been "raped all over again" as Brewer's barrister, Kate Blackwell, attempted to undermine her testimony. Her son, Oliver, told a newspaper how profoundly the cross-examination had affected her. "As soon as she came out of the courtroom, she just burst into tears," he said. "She had tried so hard not to do it in front of the jury. She described it as feeling as if she had been assaulted all over again. All that she could think was that she was being attacked. She found that extremely hard."

Rape victims facing 'humiliating' questions about clothing and sexual history during trials, MP reveals
"Women can be asked about previous partners, their underwear and even about owning sex toys"

"Women are being subjected to “humiliating” questions about their clothing or sexual history during rape and sexual assault trials, an MP has said.

The revelation was made while Plaid Cymru MP Liz Savile Roberts introduced a new Sexual Offences (Amendment) Bill for its first reading in Parliament on Wednesday. Campaigners hope it will end this practice and restrict the use of a complainant's sexual history at trial unless it is against the interests of justice not to admit it.

Voices4Victims director Claire Waxman, who helped to draft the bill, told The Independent that the organisation had been “seeing a pattern of too many cases of victims of sexual assault being brutally cross examined” in court. This process “re-traumatises victims and causes them irreparable harm,” and stops other victims from coming forward, she said."

https://www.adn.com/voices/article/julia-omalley-after-rape-humiliating-ordeal-court/2013/11/17/
"I should explain what brought me to the trial. I was looking to get a better idea of how complex sex assault cases are to prove. I was trying to make sense of a statistic I'd heard from Amanda Price, the executive director of Standing Together Against Rape. The statistic, which comes from the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network, is this: Of every 100 rapes that occur in the United States, 40 are reported, eight get prosecuted, four lead to a felony conviction, and three lead to prison time. So that means that 97 percent of the time, when someone is assaulted, no one goes to prison. And in Alaska, we have the highest rate of sexual assault in the country, according to the FBI's 2012 crime report.

The majority of sexual assaults are not reported to the authorities.
The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) reports that the majority of rapes and sexual assaults perpetrated against women and girls in the United States between 1992 and 2000 were not reported to the police. Only 36 percent of rapes, 34 percent of attempted rapes, and 26 percent of sexual assaults were reported. [3] Reasons for not reporting assault vary among individuals, but one study identified the following as common: [4]

  • Self-blame or guilt.
  • Shame, embarrassment, or desire to keep the assault a private matter.
  • Humiliation or fear of the perpetrator or other individual's perceptions.
  • Fear of not being believed or of being accused of playing a role in the crime.
  • Lack of trust in the criminal justice system.
 
If anyone listened to that recorded harvey tape. They would realize this isnt a simple. You want sex for the role. If no have a nice days. Predators dont work that way. They are smart, patient and will lure in women into situations. We need to discuss this role, i have to go now. But meet me for dinner later. Oh shit i forgot all the papers in my room lets go and get them. They know how to get women in isolated situation where they can make move. But rest assured most actress given choice will have sex for roles.
 
Rebound59 said:
I think you're wrong. It's very common to impugn the character of women bringing up sexual harassment complaints.

Prosecuting sexual assault: 'Raped all over again'
The cross-examination of Frances Andrade, who was in the witness box over indecent assault allegations against her former music teacher, Michael Brewer, makes very uncomfortable reading when you know that a few days after her court appearance she killed herself.

Three days before her death, Andrade texted a friend to say that she felt as if she had been "raped all over again" as Brewer's barrister, Kate Blackwell, attempted to undermine her testimony. Her son, Oliver, told a newspaper how profoundly the cross-examination had affected her. "As soon as she came out of the courtroom, she just burst into tears," he said. "She had tried so hard not to do it in front of the jury. She described it as feeling as if she had been assaulted all over again. All that she could think was that she was being attacked. She found that extremely hard."

Rape victims facing 'humiliating' questions about clothing and sexual history during trials, MP reveals
"Women can be asked about previous partners, their underwear and even about owning sex toys"

"Women are being subjected to “humiliating” questions about their clothing or sexual history during rape and sexual assault trials, an MP has said.

The revelation was made while Plaid Cymru MP Liz Savile Roberts introduced a new Sexual Offences (Amendment) Bill for its first reading in Parliament on Wednesday. Campaigners hope it will end this practice and restrict the use of a complainant's sexual history at trial unless it is against the interests of justice not to admit it.

Voices4Victims director Claire Waxman, who helped to draft the bill, told The Independent that the organisation had been “seeing a pattern of too many cases of victims of sexual assault being brutally cross examined” in court. This process “re-traumatises victims and causes them irreparable harm,” and stops other victims from coming forward, she said."

https://www.adn.com/voices/article/julia-omalley-after-rape-humiliating-ordeal-court/2013/11/17/
"I should explain what brought me to the trial. I was looking to get a better idea of how complex sex assault cases are to prove. I was trying to make sense of a statistic I'd heard from Amanda Price, the executive director of Standing Together Against Rape. The statistic, which comes from the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network, is this: Of every 100 rapes that occur in the United States, 40 are reported, eight get prosecuted, four lead to a felony conviction, and three lead to prison time. So that means that 97 percent of the time, when someone is assaulted, no one goes to prison. And in Alaska, we have the highest rate of sexual assault in the country, according to the FBI's 2012 crime report.

The majority of sexual assaults are not reported to the authorities.
The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) reports that the majority of rapes and sexual assaults perpetrated against women and girls in the United States between 1992 and 2000 were not reported to the police. Only 36 percent of rapes, 34 percent of attempted rapes, and 26 percent of sexual assaults were reported. [3] Reasons for not reporting assault vary among individuals, but one study identified the following as common: [4]

  • Self-blame or guilt.
  • Shame, embarrassment, or desire to keep the assault a private matter.
  • Humiliation or fear of the perpetrator or other individual's perceptions.
  • Fear of not being believed or of being accused of playing a role in the crime.
  • Lack of trust in the criminal justice system.
Click to expand...

It's very common that a lawyer will do everything in their power to defend their client, no matter if the charge is murder, rape or violent assault. The only way that we can change this, is by compromising the justice system, and giving an advantage to the accuser over the accused.

Whether we like it or not, the accused party, guilty or not, has to be allowed the chance to defend themselves (or be defended by a lawyer) in front of the court. This defense will inevitably include questioning the accuser's "decency" and honesty. We cannot simply convict people based on one person's testimony. We live in a modern, democratic society, after all, not the era of witch trials, lynch mobs and kangaroo courts, and such things.

Again, this has to do more with women's personal feelings of guilt and shame, than any kind of a cultural or structural problem, at this point. We no longer live in a "patriarchal" theocratic society, where men shame women for having lost their "purity". Haven't, for a very long time. We are living in pretty much the opposite of that. If women still feel shame in reporting their assaulter, then perhaps a period of introspection is needed, for the women to absolve their feelings of shame and guilt.

We cannot afford to mold the society to be advantageous to one gender, and in doing so, wreck our very legitimate process of administering justice, based on emotional fragility.
 
TheGreatA said:
It's very common that a lawyer will do everything in their power to defend their client, no matter if the charge is murder, rape or violent assault. The only way that we can change this, is by compromising the justice system, and giving an advantage to the accuser over the accused.

Whether we like it or not, the accused party, guilty or not, has to be allowed the chance to defend themselves (or be defended by a lawyer) in front of the court. This defense will inevitably include questioning the accuser's "decency" and honesty. We cannot simply convict people based on one person's testimony. We live in a modern, democratic society, after all, not the era of witch trials, lynch mobs and kangaroo courts, and such things.

Again, this has to do more with women's personal feelings of guilt and shame, than any kind of a cultural or structural problem, at this point. We no longer live in a "patriarchal" theocratic society, where men shame women for having lost their "purity". Haven't, for a very long time. We are living in pretty much the opposite of that. If women still feel shame in reporting their assaulter, then perhaps a period of introspection is needed, for the women to absolve their feelings of shame and guilt.

We cannot afford to mold the society to be advantageous to one gender, and in doing so, wreck our very legitimate process of administering justice, based on emotional fragility.
Click to expand...
I think you didn't read the entirety of my post. I'm just going to leave it at that. You've already made up your mind. Have a nice day.
 
Rebound59 said:
I think you didn't read the entirety of my post. I'm just going to leave it at that. You've already made up your mind. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

There is no structural or cultural solution to resolving the problem, beyond the cultivation of a culture or a structure which favours the female accuser.

What we are dealing with, are individual problems amongst women. To resolve these problems, the feminist movement needs to move beyond cultural or structural change, which they have largely already achieved, and seek to enforce change within the individual, to the point where they can function in a modern, democratic society, without needing to possess an advantage.
 
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