Do the women share some responsibility?

Of course women are equally responsible for the culture that we live in (perhaps more responsible, as women arguably have a greater impact on culture than men), but it's important to recognize that they aren't the "problem," they just contribute to the environment in which the problem flourishes.
 
You're catching some shit because the thread reads like an attempt to construct an acceptable position for victim blaming. It's not a comprehension problem, but a problem where your words, rightly or wrongly, are not taken at face value.

If you want to be utilitarian about it, this Weinstein case is a really good example of how blaming the predator loudly and openly is what gets shit done. Actresses who rebuffed him and succeeded did so despite that, not because of it. It took a whole lot of abuse before any good came of people complaining about him- it took a public shaming to fix this.

One thing I'd look at is that Hollywood doesn't have ethics to match corporate America (jesus that sounds funny). What I mean is that out in the normal work environment, there are laws and policies about hiring, relationships, behavior, etc. In movies, the producer can hire and fire almost anybody for any reason, especially up-and-comers. That environment is mostly neutral toward unethical behavior, and there are individual rewards (sometimes great rewards) for doing nothing about it, or for being complicit. The arts understandably don't want an environment like a 9-5 job because it murders creativity, and it's exactly the sort of life that artists don't want. They're going to have to correct for the tendency toward corruption without damaging the artistic environment. The problem will keep arising, but incidents like this, where producers and directors are put on notice, will help the next time a big player takes things too far.


Great post. For the record my posts are in no way meant to be even a subtle attempt at victim blaming. I was as clear as I know how to be. I think I was mistaken by some for a troll...... There is enough of that on here that I cant blame anyone.

Your point about utilitarianism is also well taken. I think I would add though that to really address the situation fully we cannot ONLY condemn the behavior of the worst actors on the field.

I feel like if women would step up take resposibility for their part in it (when there is a part) explain why and how it harmed them it would be one more step towards eliminating the problem altogether.
 
They deserve just as much. It's consensual at this point. Manager offers job for sex, you accept, it's consensual.

Isn't that how they catch perverts/pedophiles? Offer sex, and they come to your house to get arrested? Same thing here.
 
Great post. For the record my posts are in no way meant to be even a subtle attempt at victim blaming. I was as clear as I know how to be. I think I was mistaken by some for a troll...... There is enough of that on here that I cant blame anyone.

Your point about utilitarianism is also well taken. I think I would add though that to really address the situation fully we cannot ONLY condemn the behavior of the worst actors on the field.

I feel like if women would step up take resposibility for their part in it (when there is a part) explain why and how it harmed them it would be one more step towards eliminating the problem altogether.
No problem giving you the benefit of the doubt there. It's a tightrope to talk about what victims should do to avoid being victims (they always have a fair point in response- that they're just trying to get by in life, and didn't ask to be in these situations).

I guess if we're encouraging women to take responsibility, then the pressure should be directed against "keeping the secret." We should communicate that it's morally wrong to keep secrets of this kind of wrongdoing, especially because it's enabling the predator to hurt others. I wouldn't focus much on their behavior that led up to their abuse, like agreeing to see him in his hotel room. In hindsight and with experience, obviously that's not a smart thing to do, but it's not necessarily something we should fault them for.
 
And on the 8th Day god created this thread and lo it was whack
 
You can't bust out the lotion to get a promotion then complain decades later...or I guess you can
 
I guess if we're encouraging women to take responsibility, then the pressure should be directed against "keeping the secret." We should communicate that it's morally wrong to keep secrets of this kind of wrongdoing, especially because it's enabling the predator to hurt others.
And that's exactly it. It's a tricky situation because any rational person is not going to want to blame the victim. But what you said is right: the more this is brought to the forefront, the (hopefully) less it will go on.

We (well, Americans) can put Rafael Palmero in front of judges (or whatever it was) for steroids, it's only right that a huge magnifying glass be placed on the Hollywood industry now.
 
Are you saying, go along with our rape culture or find another career?
We don't have a rape culture, but many of the people that a lot of leftists want to import en masse without assimilation do. And leftist judges sometimes let them off lightly or completely, like the judge in Canada who let a refugee off who raped his wife because he supposedly didn't know that it was a crime. Or the judge in Germany who gave a refugee child rapist a light sentence after the perpetrator claimed that he had a "sexual emergency" in a swimming pool locker room with a 10-year-old boy. I can cite other cases as well. This is why many people are starting to believe that leftism is a mental disorder, even some people who used to be part of the Left before the Left went insane.
 
And that's exactly it. It's a tricky situation because any rational person is not going to want to blame the victim. But what you said is right: the more this is brought to the forefront, the (hopefully) less it will go on.

We (well, Americans) can put Rafael Palmero in front of judges (or whatever it was) for steroids, it's only right that a huge magnifying glass be placed on the Hollywood industry now.
I don't agree with the comparison to steroids (each should be evaluated on its own merits), but I agree with your instinct that it's rational to avoid victim blaming because it's very tricky. That sounds like a job for a mental health professional.
 
I don't agree with the comparison to steroids (each should be evaluated on its own merits), but I agree with your instinct that it's rational to avoid victim blaming because it's very tricky. That sounds like a job for a mental health professional.
I just meant the comparison to the steroids issue because it's another big business, yet relatively minor in comparison to the Hollywood stuff that's being brought up now, yet they were hammered publicly. Good to see this happening now here and it'd be nice to see a gov't investigation into that
 
Are you saying, go along with our rape culture or find another career?


I am certain that no one can think I am saying to go along with rape culture if they have read my posts in this thread. I will assume you have not done that as I cannot see any logical connection between my post and your statement.

I am saying precisely the opposite of going along with sex for position. I am saying women and men should refuse to trade sexual favors for position and should have the moral courage to out those who try to coerce others into it even if that negatively effects their career of reputation.

I am also saying that if someone chooses to trade sex for success they absolutely share blame for their actions unless they were too scared to say no, intimidated physically into accepting, or otherwise conned into the act.






Also just in general. I think nuance is lost in America today. There is difference between discussing each parties responsibility in a detailed way and BLAMING a particular group or person. Blame is not even necessary as it implies judgment and certainly there does not need to be any negativity felt towards women who have participated willingly. It is all just about fully fleshing out the roots of issues like this.

The example of the male model in my TS ought to go a long way towards setting the right example. The only thing he could have done better is to share his story with a media organization.
 
People shouldn't get assaulted for wearing a Yankees hat in Fenway Park.
 
didn't read OP yet, nor any posts but my answer to the question in the title is ABSO-Fing-LUTELY.

now I am going to read the post.
 
There are a lot of professions in which this sort of power imbalance leads to questionable treatment of younger, less established people. Call it the intern - boss dynamic or something like that. But when sex is involved I do think it's different. It's super easy to say, "if don't like the way things are done here, go somewhere else." That's just an excuse for bad behavior, though.

I do wonder why people haven't spoken up more, or more forcefully, about something they say is such a bad thing. I guess the prospect of becoming rich and famous makes it worth enduring.

The world is neither fair nor moral.
 
We don't have a rape culture, but many of the people that a lot of leftists want to import en masse without assimilation do. And leftist judges sometimes let them off lightly or completely, like the judge in Canada who let a refugee off who raped his wife because he supposedly didn't know that it was a crime. Or the judge in Germany who gave a refugee child rapist a light sentence after the perpetrator claimed that he had a "sexual emergency" in a swimming pool locker room with a 10-year-old boy. I can cite other cases as well. This is why many people are starting to believe that leftism is a mental disorder, even some people who used to be part of the Left before the Left went insane.

In Hollywood there is a rape culture for roles. You are blind if you think there is not.
 
The producers and directors are despicable beings but also the "artists" that agreed to be used are not so clean. I personally kown some actress that were pretty , one works with the tutors for disable and the other merried wealthy guy that bought her a theater, she wrote and directs her shows gained a small audiance. Almost every adults that get a role in exchange of having sex with someone did it for his/her choice.
 
Back
Top