im not changing the topic, I posted 3 vids of guys using close guard effectively on streets fights, one of them showing a dude trying to eye gouge his way out of it.. where did the triangle came from? close guard, yet you say close guard is for bjj sport matches....so plese explain to me whats your logic, triangles are good but close guard sucks? hell you actually said you rather not teach close guard? that is sincerly blasphemy, specially when you support your opinion with" you can get hit bit and eye gouge" even with posture broken (what is the first thing you are supposed to do in a fighting scenario, break posture)
You can also find 3 videos of people using karate to win street fights if you look.
He’s saying butterfly guard is better than closed guard, not that triangles don’t work. (I triangle people from butterfly guard, don’t you?) His argument isn’t invalidated by showing examples of when closed guard did work because he’s saying that butterfly is usually a better option, not that closed guard NEVER works. Just like how karate can work but it’s not usually the best option.
We’ve all seen people get TKOd while having closed guard. Look at the early UFCs where people like Kerr started head butting their way through a bevy of BJJ guys. Or how many times we’ve seen people win by elbow TKO from there. Butterfly guard just isn’t vulnerable in the same way as closed guard to certain tactics because it actively punishes forward pressure in a way that closed guard does not. Without forward pressure, the butterfly guard player can simply create distance and stand up. Every time the top person attempts to apply pressure to prevent the standup so they can begin striking, they expose themselves to hook sweeps, leglock entries, guillotines, and other nastiness. This is all because the butterfly guard keeps bone-frames between you and them (your shins and femurs) but unlike the knee shield/Z half guard or scissor full guard it does not involve wrapping your legs around the top person or their legs. Therefore, there’s no option to stop the standup with Turk / SNR methods and it’s harder just to grab your leg and pressure you back down (and if they do, it gives you the hook sweep or various submissions). Almost all methods that do help stop the standup without significant immediate submission exposure involve using arms on legs and therefore do not permit striking.
Closed guard is for when you’re facing another grappler in a grappling match and want to make life very difficult for them while you work on submissions and sweeps. Its chief advantage for fights is that it is harder to disengage from for the top person. So if you just want to keep it as a ground grappling match, and you think your opponent is likely to hand you a submission before doing significant damage with their head, elbows, or hands, it makes sense. If you are afraid of their standing striking and don’t think you can outrun them or take them down, it makes sense.
But I’d almost always prefer butterfly because the chief concern for self-defense or MMA is to minimize time spent on bottom and to minimize damage taken on bottom. Butterfly is strictly better for those closely intertwined objectives.
I would be willing to bet quite a lot of money that the % of people TKOd in MMA in full/closed guard is much higher than the % of people who were using butterfly.
That said, for MMA, butterfly only makes sense if you have good takedowns and/or good striking (but if you don’t have anything except ground, you shouldn’t be fighting). For self-defense, it only makes sense if you have good running speed and cardio (or takedowns/striking).
To reiterate / TL;DR:
If you’re just happy that you got to the ground so now you can work submissions and you want to keep your opponent there above all else because you’d get knocked out or taken down again immediately from standing then absolutely! Closed guard is better.
If you want to minimize your chances of getting held down and hit in the face with various hard bony parts of your foe’s body, and you have decent striking or takedowns/throws or running speed, butterfly is better.
