Does seeing lies against Donald make you more mistrustful of "truth" about the other party?

MusterX said:
Media and government go well beyond the "bias" that most people throw around. They are incredibly deceptive and outright lie. Left or right, doesn't matter. What gets me is the number of people that never seem to figure it out. The left says go team, fuck the righties and the right says go team, fuck the lefties, and they never figure out the game being run on them. Its truly amazing how effectively media and government together have achieved this. Edward Bernays would be proud.
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This is a good point. I think part of the problem is that, in America, we pretend the media isn't government. Maybe in 1776 it wasn't, but in the modern world media (and, arguably, social media) is just as essential to running the country as the military is. One of the things I appreciated when I was living in China was that there was no such pretense; the media is the voice of the government. There really is no illusion.

Could you imagine governing hundreds of millions of people and having no control whatsoever over the information they're getting? That'd be insane.
 
Leagon said:
What do you mean? I can't quite tell your tone from this.
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He's a Liberal hack, and meant that CNN, MSNBC, and the rest were 100% accurate when they reported that Donald Trump called the widow to express his indifference to her husband's death, and essentially told her to suck it up and get over it, because it's "what he signed up for". He finds it appalling that you would slander any news agency that tells him what he wants to hear.
 
The anti-democratic and human atrocities of the CIA are legion. From overthrowing many democratic regimes, to assassination, to controlling domestic news for the States. Why? The CIA always has been the intelligence arm serving the interests of American Big Business. The Viet Nam war was a war fought to steal natural resources. The US created South Viet Nam out of whole cloth as a base of operation and cosmetic fantasy of South loving oppressed Vietnamese vs the Communist North Oppressors….the Bay of Pigs….Read the links to see the crimes.

As far as domestic Media is concerned: Operation Mockingbird. “The CIA begins recruiting American news organizations and journalists to become spies and disseminators of propaganda. The effort is headed by Frank Wisner, Allan Dulles, Richard Helms and Philip Graham. Graham is publisher of The Washington Post, which becomes a major CIA player. Eventually, the CIA’s media assets will include ABC, NBC, CBS, Time, Newsweek, Associated Press, United Press International, Reuters, Hearst Newspapers, Scripps-Howard, Copley News Service and more. By the CIA’s own admission, at least 25 organizations and 400 journalists will become CIA assets.” http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

Did anyone notice how Woodward and Bernstein said shit about CIA involvement in Watergate? Now you know why. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012...stions-endure-about-cia-role-in-break-in.html

The media figures that we read and watch on TV are CIA assets. A CIA that exists largely as an arm of American Big Business. Operation Mockingbird did not end. It evolved. https://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/...ingbird-cia-disinformation-media-then-and-now

When viewing news through that filter, keep in mind that propaganda to divide labor while bolstering the few Economic Royalist who think they own us is rather easy to spot. Left and Right in this context is more accurately shown as Rich vs Everyone else. It’s a game of control. You are not competent to think. You are labor on your own and you individuate yourself by your consumption of fungible brand name goods. Watch sports but don’t discuss important topics, that’s for important people…not you. Do as we suggest...as you're told. Put the big foam #1 finger back on your hand and drink a cold one..or ten to smoke and eat yourself into an early grave. But never, ever think you are part of the decision making process.
 
I evaluate the truth of this administration's statements on their own merits.
So far it appears that the trump administration has a very loose relationship with the truth.
 
I've had little trust in politics and the media since Perot ran in '92 and was treated like he was (mind you I was a child then and could still see that), so seeing the media and social media dogpile on one guy isn't all that shocking to me, they've just upped the degree to the dogpile.
Perot, Nader and Paul all got the "they're crazy and splitting the vote" treatment, Pat Buchanan got the "racist" treatment, the media and the new online contingent went all in on Bush Jr., hell some people on the right don't even realize that stuff they've used against Obama are now the types of things being used against Trump (often focusing on little petty things), so the tactics that have happened are not new, just exacerbated. I'm quite sure a lot of this has been going on for centuries though, but the evolution of tv and the internet (and print and radio prior to both) has made things worse; and big conglomerates sucking up smaller companies means that there are less true individual voices and more focus from all these departments of the conglomerates from the head (less voices, but a wider presence from the few large ones).
 
I don't mind biased sources if I'm aware of their leanings. I only drop them off if I think they either are too blindly ignorant of the other side to actually report information or they are intentionally misguiding with the hope the person isn't checking other sources.

I think the bigger point people should take from your OP is people need to avoid this team mindset where they think their integrity is completely attached with whatever politician they supported. We are all inidviduals and should be able to be honest when we don't agree with the person we support overall. Blindly arguing for them every time isn't winning the argument. It's just making you not actually have your own voice and not engage in an honest discussion.
 
Also, usually the opposition leaning news source is the media I'll pay attention to depending who has the White House cause they will throw 50 different situations of what's going on and you can decide whether it sticks or not. The supporting outlet may have a point or so to defend them but I usually can do that on my own so they become way less useful to me, especially when I don't think they will ever take the other side.

Ben Shapiro has been the best side from the right in trying to be completely upfront while his party holds the White House. I think more commentators like him are going to emerge in news media. Those larger news stations are going to die off with cable
 
In sales something often taught is to not criticize the competition. Doing so makes you look bad. If you are going to criticize, be honest, keep it to the minimum, and don't be over the top.

I think many in liberal media circles have not learned that, or care for that matter. Many journalists seem to think of themselves as being in the entertainment business not honest news reporting. Instead it is, the more extreme, the more notice can be received.

My guess is many of the medias over the top attacks make them look bad.
 
Bigger issue to me then the one in the OPis, to me,
that America still has a two party system.
It is primitive and causes a 'the other side is bad' mentality.
 
Lead said:
Also, usually the opposition leaning news source is the media I'll pay attention to depending who has the White House cause they will throw 50 different situations of what's going on and you can decide whether it sticks or not. The supporting outlet may have a point or so to defend them but I usually can do that on my own so they become way less useful to me, especially when I don't think they will ever take the other side.
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Good point. And I normally agree with this, except that I find Fox News to be a bit more bearable these days than CNN (MSNBC is absolutely out of the question for me, I just can't do it). I feel like Fox does a...not irresponsible job on their coverage of Donald, even though they aren't as critical as they, perhaps, should be. But CNN is a bit hysterical, and it's unfortunate.

Like you, I appreciate Shapiro's measured opposition to Donald. Hopefully he, and others, represent the newer generation taking their cues from more moderate political commentators and the Rush Limbaughs/Michael Savages/Alex Jones of the world disappear.
 
Leagon said:
Good point. And I normally agree with this, except that I find Fox News to be a bit more bearable these days than CNN (MSNBC is absolutely out of the question for me, I just can't do it). I feel like Fox does a...not irresponsible job on their coverage of Donald, even though they aren't as critical as they, perhaps, should be. But CNN is a bit hysterical, and it's unfortunate.

Like you, I appreciate Shapiro's measured opposition to Donald. Hopefully he, and others, represent the newer generation taking their cues from more moderate political commentators and the Rush Limbaughs/Michael Savages/Alex Jones of the world disappear.
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It isn't necessarily moderate. It's just being more sincere about the issue. You can see the agenda isn't tied to any party in absolute terms. With some of those guys, you don't get that. I wouldn't even say Savage is tied to a party allegiance either. He's obviously right wing but I've heard him make different calls on police brutality and gay rights. He seems very confused to me. The only staple with him is trying to secure his ego.

I think Alex Jones type people will always be around. CT angle always will be appealing to a small demographic of the population.

Rush and Hannity though are a dying bread. Rush hardly even tries anymore. He will drag a segment out saying almost nothing waiting to go to another ten minute commercial break. I don't see how anyone can tolerate radio anymore that does that. Hannity just isn't sincere or goes out of the way to be completely ignorant and that's why I've heard even those on his side even mock or insult him for being that way (Savage, Beck, Levin, Shapiro have all called him out directly or indirectly in the past).
 
HomerThompson said:
Source?
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After double-checking, the video I saw is not from the Niger thing, but from a different incident in Afghanistan.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/20/trump-calls-gold-star-widow-de-alencar-in-april-sot-ctn.cnn

So you're not wrong on that one. But Leftist sources have lied about the "Muslim Ban" (which only banned a few of the world's many Muslim countries), as well as the "grab her by the pussy" tape (I saw sources that said he admitted to sexual assault). I'm sure I can think of others, but this is all off the top of my head and I honestly wasn't particularly enthralled by this last political season.
 
Leagon said:
Growing up in a left-leaning household, the first thing that made me more critical of the Left was seeing Fox News tell heavy mischaracterizations about people like Obama and (my guy at the time) Bill Richardson. I didn't become more mistrustful because I thought the news reports were valid, but because I thought it would be very strange if conservative news outlets spread propaganda but liberals ones didn't. That seems unlikely, no?

After deciding to consume news from CNN and MSNBC a bit more carefully, I, unsurprisingly, discovered that the information I'd been relying on was equally inaccurate, just pointed at different targets.

This thread is particularly directed at Donald supporters (but I'd like to hear from those opposed to Donald as well) : Does seeing how much Left-leaning news outlets lie about your boy make you reconsider the things you hear about Democrats from right-leaning news outlets? When you see Leftists calling him a racist and taking his quotes out of context, does it make you wonder if Right-leaning outlets do the same thing to Hillary, Bernie, Obama, etc? If so, what impact has that had on you? If not, what makes your news sources different/more reliable?
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It all comes down to figuring shit out for yourself, not just tuning in to one channel.

If you can actually listen to everything Trump has said, and still think he's an honest person, you're a god damn idiot.

If you read every breitbart headline and think it's gospel, you're a god damn idiot.

If you believe every word from CNN, you're a god damn idiot.

Learn to think for yourself. The US would be so much better if people actually thought for themselves instead of following party lines or representatives.

You can't believe shit that comes out of that retard Trump's mouth.

But you also can't blindly follow most of the leftist media (and just fuck Fox news altogether).

People need to actually attend town hall meetings and start paying attention down ballot. That's the only way to understand what matters to them and to know what's going on.
 
Lead said:
Also, usually the opposition leaning news source is the media I'll pay attention to depending who has the White House cause they will throw 50 different situations of what's going on and you can decide whether it sticks or not. The supporting outlet may have a point or so to defend them but I usually can do that on my own so they become way less useful to me, especially when I don't think they will ever take the other side.

Ben Shapiro has been the best side from the right in trying to be completely upfront while his party holds the White House. I think more commentators like him are going to emerge in news media. Those larger news stations are going to die off with cable
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Yea Ben has opened my eyes on some of that, being mostly intellectually honest with "his side." He doesn't like Milo, Jones and isn't a fan of Trump. I like the his reasonable thinking even if I disagree.
 
Leagon said:
Growing up in a left-leaning household, the first thing that made me more critical of the Left was seeing Fox News tell heavy mischaracterizations about people like Obama and (my guy at the time) Bill Richardson. I didn't become more mistrustful because I thought the news reports were valid, but because I thought it would be very strange if conservative news outlets spread propaganda but liberals ones didn't. That seems unlikely, no?

After deciding to consume news from CNN and MSNBC a bit more carefully, I, unsurprisingly, discovered that the information I'd been relying on was equally inaccurate, just pointed at different targets.

This thread is particularly directed at Donald supporters (but I'd like to hear from those opposed to Donald as well) : Does seeing how much Left-leaning news outlets lie about your boy make you reconsider the things you hear about Democrats from right-leaning news outlets? When you see Leftists calling him a racist and taking his quotes out of context, does it make you wonder if Right-leaning outlets do the same thing to Hillary, Bernie, Obama, etc? If so, what impact has that had on you? If not, what makes your news sources different/more reliable?
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I like seeing actual facts to back up said stories. I've seen a lot of facts about the Clinton Russia connection but very little with Trump Russia.
 
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