Duterte's War on Drugs

[MadSquabbles500]

For those who don't know Rodrigo Duterte, President of The Philippines, has decided to approach the war on drugs in his country by executing drug users.

My wife and I just had an animated discussion over this as she feels that he is insanely wrong for doing this and should be considered a criminal for doing so. I never disagreed with her views but I kept asking her a question that I will now ask you guys.......

What else can Duterte, or anyone else for that matter, do to SERIOUSLY CRACK DOWN on drugs???!! Going after the drug pushers is completely pointless because of the dirty political players involved in the drug game. It would take far too much resources to lock up and/or rehab drug addicts; not to mention some drug addicts do prove (and have proved) to essentially be unable to be rehabilitated.

There is a mindset that many vegans and vegetarians have in which they focus on converting people from meat eaters to plant eaters. The logic behind this is that meat eaters are who keep the meat, egg and milk producers in business. If the world no longer had meat eaters then the meat producers would be out of business. So I'm wondering if this is the same sort of logic that President Duterte is operating with.

Who here agrees with Rodrigo Duterte's approach to the drug problem in his country? Who here disagrees? What other viable options are there that should be explored?

Let's discuss this Sherbros.

It will put the dealers out of business for sure. Nothing like destroying a business than by destroying the market for it.

 

[Undying Poster]

And here is where it starts to get heated for some people. I think you know just as well as everyone else here that drug users DO harm others. Many of them rob and kill for it. Some sell their own children or allow others to have their way with them (their kids) for their own drug gain. There are people who abandon their children because their fix was more important to them and kids have gotten hold of mommy and/or daddy's drugs and suffered very bad consequences.

If we say that drug use does not harm anyone in any country then we would not be very honest with ourselves.

Yeah and one of the reasons junkies have to resort to stealing and robbing is because drugs are so expensive because they're illegal

Alcohol is by far the most damaging drug on earth but alcoholics aren't kicking down your door for a fix because it's cheap and easily accessible.

I think something crazy like 1/3 or 1/4 of all crime in America involved alcohol

Plus, any place with real law and order doesn't have to worry about junkies robbing to get their next fix... we're currently having a heroin epidemic in America but it hasn't translated into a crime epidemic because it is very likely that you will be held accountable for your crime.

 

[steve38]

Drug usage in Philippines isn't the cause of the country's problems, but rather a result. Poor parenting, poor economy, poor educational system, etc are to blame...mostly due to corruption from top to bottom. For many young Filipinos, there's really no hope, and they turn to drugs.

To make matters worse, until just recently kids would graduate high school at 16. The ones with some money would go onto college, but the poor ones would just hang out. You can't work here legally until you're 18, so what's a poor Filipino boy to do for 2 years...fuck off, get drunk, get high and probably make a few kids for which he will typically not be responsible.

Kids now graduate at 18, and that will help a little, but corruption and lack of jobs is the big issue. If a guy has hope in life, he has a purpose, and has a chance to be a productive member of society.

The last president improved the economy a lot, and worked on corruption, but most Filipinos are impatient, like little children, and want a quick fix. So they took a chance on a wild card, Duterte, because they were so desperate to fix the country NOW. Many of them regret it.

 

[FinalFight]

I feel sorry for your wife.

 

[orca]

Im a filipino and a former drug addict. Those killed are mostly drug pushers and drug lords. only 1% that got killed are users. I would stil be using drugs if duterte wasnt our president. So he can do whatever he wants

 

[tonni]

gee i wonder what's wrong with cops shooting """drug dealers""" and a addicts in broad daylight, without trial

 

[hillelslovak87]

Okay, so what VIABLE options are there that have yet to be explored? If drug use is a big problem that needs to be cleaned up what else can a government do that works?

Portugal has been a pretty good model for the legalization and regulation of drugs. They have diminished their black market supplies of illicit drugs substantially, while educating their populace on drugs rather than criminalizing such, and it has led to less drug use, with decreases in addiction the younger the user gets.

That country is extremely poor, and many turn to selling drugs in order to survive. Yes, not all are like this, and many are leeches and corrupters of their communities, but to simply murder people, and murder police who refuse to do so, without any sort of fair trial, is not what civilized countries do. Plain and simple.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Its not official policy by the government to Kill Drug Users Duterte may have said he wants to kill Drug users or dealers but that has not been the official policy and there are lots of Drug dealers and users being arrested and not executed by the police.

Now if the the state or the local police departments is secretly sponsoring death squads targeting rival drug dealers is another topic.


The Police here has already bee very corrupt that did not change when Duterte came to power that will not change overnight anyone who says the Police has been very honest because Duterte says so is really delusional.

Giving the police the right and power to kill people without impunity is just insane.

 

[ShinkanPo]

gee i wonder what's wrong with cops shooting """drug dealers""" and a addicts in broad daylight, without trial

Yeah hahaha a lot of people don't get it, they think all of sudden the police are now "clean" just because Duterte is in power.

Wow.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

It may not be the most popular view, but I have no problem with Duterte wiping out the scum of society with brutal force. It is time to clean the filth out of the Philippines.

What this means, of course, as it always does, it's a consolidation of power by managing rivals and frightening the voters.
Turn in a drug user!
Your neighbor is kind of a cunt...

 

[ShinkanPo]

What this means, of course, as it always does, it's a consolidation of power by managing rivals and frightening the voters.
Turn in a drug user!
Your neighbor is kind of a cunt...

The weird thing about Filipino Duterte apologists they always say that westerners don't how corrupt the situation in the Philippines is and that only thru a brutal leader like Duterte could all that corruption be destroyed.

So they already admit that even the cops are also corrupt as their assertion that corruption is wide spread so their solution is to give more power to these corrupt cops? As if the Cops and other authorities in power have been change in the last elections even if Duterte is these benevolent Dictator that they claim to be that will only get rid of the monsters and scum of Philippine Society how sure are they that the police and military that will enforce this brutal crack down are not corrupt? or will not be corrupted by the system?

The reason Drugs and crime have proliferated because the Cops are corrupt and these Cops are the same cops from the previous administration but somehow they expect us just to trust this cop to just arrest people who are using drugs?

 

[Cid]

Always funny watching right wing posters display their disdain for the free market and love of overbearing government.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Always funny watching right wing posters display their disdain for the free market and love of overbearing government.

It is indeed entertaining.

 

[Sycho Sid]

I am sure it has been said, but it is not a war on drugs. It is a war on users and suspected users. And people who piss off duterte and his police.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I am sure it has been said, but it is not a war on drugs. It is a war on users and suspected users. And people who piss off duterte and his police.

You will get into arguments with these statements you have to show atleast sources that gives proof to the alegation that Duterte intentionally targets political oponents. Or that the killings are indeed state sanctioned.

 

[Cid]

And here is where it starts to get heated for some people. I think you know just as well as everyone else here that drug users DO harm others. Many of them rob and kill for it. Some sell their own children or allow others to have their way with them (their kids) for their own drug gain. There are people who abandon their children because their fix was more important to them and kids have gotten hold of mommy and/or daddy's drugs and suffered very bad consequences.

If we say that drug use does not harm anyone in any country then we would not be very honest with ourselves.

Alcohol is a factor in around 40% of all violent crimes in America.

In my country around 60% of all the people incarcerated for a violent crime were under the influence of alcohol when the crime was committed.

If we're actually being honest the portrayal of drug addicts as mindless violent people willing to do anything to get their fix is ridiculous when we're faced with a reality of large amounts of normal non violent people that turn into violent psychopaths while under the influence of our most socially acceptable legal drug.

 

[steve38]

Im a filipino and a former drug addict. Those killed are mostly drug pushers and drug lords. only 1% that got killed are users. I would stil be using drugs if duterte wasnt our president. So he can do whatever he wants

I'm happy that you quit using drugs, amigo. Now you can eat more fish!

One of my closest Filipino friends got hooked on Shabu a few years ago. Nice guy, business owner. I've known him for 5-6 years and having me throw him out of my house was his impetus to quit drugs...he will admit that. It was ugly.

Still friends, probably forever...but if he's using, he don't tell me...just like everyone else in the Philippines...it's all underground now.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I'm happy that you quit using drugs, amigo. Now you can eat more fish!

One of my closest Filipino friends got hooked on Shabu a few years ago. Nice guy, business owner. I've known him for 5-6 years and having me throw him out of my house was his impetus to quit drugs...he will admit that. It was ugly.

Still friends, probably forever...but if he's using, he don't tell me...just like everyone else in the Philippines...it's all underground now.

Next president of the Philippines! Steve38!

He will kick out users out of the country this time!

I heard Shabu is being sold in Cebu island like its fucking candy, Cebu/Shabu Cebu/Shabu!

One thing good about this Duterte crack down the good police really did target some ass holes in different communities,specially known notorious,crack dealers, robbers,pickpocket gangs.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Hey fellas please allow me to clear something up real quick...

I never said that I agreed with Duterte's approach. My stance has been and still is that his approach (supposedly) is working for him but would like to know a different option that would also work. Official statistics from the Philippines is that over 600,000 users and dealers have disappeared since Duterte has been president and there are currently a little more than a half a million addicts undergoing rehabilitation.

He, and all other governments can get the fuck out of the business of dictating what people can and can not do with their bodies. No type of prohibition works, has ever worked, or will ever work. It's as simple as that. Anyone saying otherwise is an ignorant fool.

I almost feel the same way which is why I think it's stupid as hell for prostitution to be illegal. However, when you start to see patterns and correlations between violent crimes and drug addicts you're almost compelled to take some sort of action to put a stop to drug trafficking.

Research Portugals drug decriminalization policy. It's a case study over 10+ years in a country of 10 million + people. Anyone involved in this conversation should do the same at the minimum.

I Think what Portugal is doing is pretty good. I don't know how much you have researched what they're doing but if you have researched it as extensively as I'm thinking then you realize that there are flaws in their program over there. And besides, I think Duterte's stance is to get rid of drug users and dealers entirely instead of placating them, which is essentially what Portugal is doing. I even read an article about Portugal where a guy who called himself Mario in Lisbon is a crack cocaine and heroin addict. He is homeless and JOBLESS and yet he spends more than $100 a day to get high. Now how do you suppose he's able to afford to do this? Drug related crime statistics in Portugal look good mainly because certain drug offenses have been either decriminalized or reduced to minor offenses. Any government in the world can crunch those kinds of numbers in order to look good.

What do you mean exhaust that option. The percentage of people in prison for crimes to fund their addiction is much smaller than the ones in for simple possession. If we legalized drugs and only jailed people who commited crimes to fund the addiction -- we would increase the resources available by decreasing total spending

I mean that those who are in prison aren't even close to the total number of addicts there are in society. If we were to jail and/or rehab 80% or more of them then resources towards doing so would be severely exhausted. I don't know if legalizing drugs would do anything to the violent drug related crime offenses because a broke and jobless addict must still burglarize, rob, steal and (possibly) kill to get their fix regardless if recreational drugs are legal or not.

It is almost as if we should have laws against, robbing, killing and abandoning your children.

Sarcasm not withstanding, I repeat that when you notice a pattern of correlation between drug use and certain crimes then you have to take notice and do something about it.

Yeah and one of the reasons junkies have to resort to stealing and robbing is because drugs are so expensive because they're illegal

Even though competition between pushers and dealers always make it more affordable especially when one of them has a money trail of crooked politicians and law enforcers to help them get it for ridiculously low wholesale prices.

Alcohol is by far the most damaging drug on earth but alcoholics aren't kicking down your door for a fix because it's cheap and easily accessible.

Alcoholics aren't kicking down your door for a fix because alcohol isn't as addictive as crack cocaine, heroin or meth. The people addicted these drugs are the ones kicking in doors and robbing gas stations.

I think something crazy like 1/3 or 1/4 of all crime in America involved alcohol

It was 1/3 and they included DUI in those statistics. As much as I hate DUI and think it should warrant a very, very severe punishment, it's mainly an impairment issue. It's not the same as someone saying "I need a bottle of E&J, I think I'll go pull off a home invasion to come up with the money for it".

Plus, any place with real law and order doesn't have to worry about junkies robbing to get their next fix... we're currently having a heroin epidemic in America but it hasn't translated into a crime epidemic because it is very likely that you will be held accountable for your crime.

I totally disagree that it has not translated into a crime epidemic. Where I live home invasions, robberies and drug related murders are spiking right along with the spike in, not just heroin, but meth, K-2 and fentanyl use as well. Many drug addicts are unable to think ahead and realize that they will be held accountable for what they do. Drug addiction is so strong that all they can think about is getting their next fix.

I feel sorry for your wife.

Oh? Why is that?

Portugal has been a pretty good model for the legalization and regulation of drugs. They have diminished their black market supplies of illicit drugs substantially, while educating their populace on drugs rather than criminalizing such, and it has led to less drug use, with decreases in addiction the younger the user gets.

That country is extremely poor, and many turn to selling drugs in order to survive. Yes, not all are like this, and many are leeches and corrupters of their communities, but to simply murder people, and murder police who refuse to do so, without any sort of fair trial, is not what civilized countries do. Plain and simple.

Please see my reply to Bald1 concerning Portugal.

Alcohol is a factor in around 40% of all violent crimes in America.

In my country around 60% of all the people incarcerated for a violent crime were under the influence of alcohol when the crime was committed.

Please see my reply to Undying Poster about the relevance of alcohol related crimes in my country (Murica).

If we're actually being honest the portrayal of drug addicts as mindless violent people willing to do anything to get their fix is ridiculous when we're faced with a reality of large amounts of normal non violent people that turn into violent psychopaths while under the influence of our most socially acceptable legal drug.

Copy that. I think if a government is going to criminalize one then they should criminalize them all. But I repeat, drug addicts ALSO turn into violent psychopaths while under the influence but many of them also COMMIT VIOLENCE in order to get drugs. I still haven't seen anywhere in my country where a pattern has developed between robberies and home invasions perpetrated by alcoholics because they needed money for some Mad Dog.

And I'll repeat once again that I do not like what Duterte is doing I just think there is nothing else he can do Other Than just accept the fact that there will be drug users in his country and as long as there are drug users there will be drug dealers and drug related crimes.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Hey fellas please allow me to clear something up real quick...

I never said that I agreed with Duterte's approach. My stance has been and still is that his approach (supposedly) is working for him but would like to know a different option that would also work. Official statistics from the Philippines is that over 600,000 users and dealers have disappeared since Duterte has been president and there are currently a little more than a half a million addicts undergoing rehabilitation.



I almost feel the same way which is why I think it's stupid as hell for prostitution to be illegal. However, when you start to see patterns and correlations between violent crimes and drug addicts you're almost compelled to take some sort of action to put a stop to drug trafficking.



I Think what Portugal is doing is pretty good. I don't know how much you have researched what they're doing but if you have researched it as extensively as I'm thinking then you realize that there are flaws in their program over there. And besides, I think Duterte's stance is to get rid of drug users and dealers entirely instead of placating them, which is essentially what Portugal is doing. I even read an article about Portugal where a guy who called himself Mario in Lisbon is a crack cocaine and heroin addict. He is homeless and JOBLESS and yet he spends more than $100 a day to get high. Now how do you suppose he's able to afford to do this? Drug related crime statistics in Portugal look good mainly because certain drug offenses have been either decriminalized or reduced to minor offenses. Any government in the world can crunch those kinds of numbers in order to look good.



I mean that those who are in prison aren't even close to the total number of addicts there are in society. If we were to jail and/or rehab 80% or more of them then resources towards doing so would be severely exhausted. I don't know if legalizing drugs would do anything to the violent drug related crime offenses because a broke and jobless addict must still burglarize, rob, steal and (possibly) kill to get their fix regardless if recreational drugs are legal or not.



Sarcasm not withstanding, I repeat that when you notice a pattern of correlation between drug use and certain crimes then you have to take notice and do something about it.



Even though competition between pushers and dealers always make it more affordable especially when one of them has a money trail of crooked politicians and law enforcers to help them get it for ridiculously low wholesale prices.



Alcoholics aren't kicking down your door for a fix because alcohol isn't as addictive as crack cocaine, heroin or meth. The people addicted these drugs are the ones kicking in doors and robbing gas stations.



It was 1/3 and they included DUI in those statistics. As much as I hate DUI and think it should warrant a very, very severe punishment, it's mainly an impairment issue. It's not the same as someone saying "I need a bottle of E&J, I think I'll go pull off a home invasion to come up with the money for it".



I totally disagree that it has not translated into a crime epidemic. Where I live home invasions, robberies and drug related murders are spiking right along with the spike in, not just heroin, but meth, K-2 and fentanyl use as well. Many drug addicts are unable to think ahead and realize that they will be held accountable for what they do. Drug addiction is so strong that all they can think about is getting their next fix.



Oh? Why is that?



Please see my reply to Bald1 concerning Portugal.



Please see my reply to Undying Poster about the relevance of alcohol related crimes in my country (Murica).



Copy that. I think if a government is going to criminalize one then they should criminalize them all. But I repeat, drug addicts ALSO turn into violent psychopaths while under the influence but many of them also COMMIT VIOLENCE in order to get drugs. I still haven't seen anywhere in my country where a pattern has developed between robberies and home invasions perpetrated by alcoholics because they needed money for some Mad Dog.

And I'll repeat once again that I do not like what Duterte is doing I just think there is nothing else he can do Other Than just accept the fact that there will be drug users in his country and as long as there are drug users there will be drug dealers and drug related crimes.

Duterte's drug is not really working when his own son is also being implicated in the drug trade. Our customs office have been caught letting in $124 million worth of meth.